Hermaphrodites

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Holly3278

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Hi everyone. As we know from the Bible, there are only two genders: male and female. However, when it comes to hermaphrodites, it is difficult to tell which gender a person is sometimes. I think that sometimes they can’t even tell by looking at the genetics of a person but I am not sure on that one.

Anyway, should hermaphrodites marry if it is inconclusive as to which gender they are or should they remain celibate? 🤷:confused:

What do you think about this issue in general?
 
I go with what gender the mind and soul are. I the inside is more important than the outside.
 
Holly - There any many, many different manifestations of hermaphroditism, and indeed of all types of malformations of the sex organs. For this reason, there is no simple answer, but rather a whole field of moral theology that specialists within the Church are concerned with. You can, if you like, buy a good book on Catholic moral Thrology and Medical Ethics, and it will go through some of the principles and examples. It’s just too broad a question for a short answer.
 
Oh, and Aspalowski’s answer is, from a Catholic perspective, 100% totally and completely wrong.
 
No, it’s the most shallow, as well as being completely useless in real situations.
 
I’ve been wondering this for the past 10 years. Once I realized that it does exist I found it facinating. No offense intended.
 
I think the phrase ‘intersexed’ is preferred to ‘hermaphrodite’ [which has an ugly ‘side show freak’ implication] these days.

I know a woman who learned when she was 16 [and hadn’t developed breasts] that she was geneticly male: it’s called ‘androgen insensitivity syndrome’, which prevents the male hormones they’ve been making since they were in the womb from having any effect.

She has always thought of herself as a woman, and as a young girl dreamed of marriage and children, but has had real issues with intimacy due to her condition.

She is very lovely, talented, etc., and has taken female hormones to help her outside match her inside.

She actually has fewer ‘male’ characteristics than most women do: all women have some testosterone [and men, estrogen], but in her case it has no effect.

Such people should be treated with dignitiy and sensitivity, but I’m not sure we need to worry much about their position within the Church. If they appear to belong to one gender and emotionally identify with it, thats likely to be all that’s needed for a Church wedding [even though they can’t generally have kids]. They may require hormone treatments and surgery to completely fulfill that role, but it is a very different thing from the transgendered person.

If they see themselves as intersexed and wish to fulfill a different or dual societal role [some do], then odds are their sexual practices are outside the bounds of Christian marriage anyway.
 
If they appear to belong to one gender and emotionally identify with it, thats likely to be all that’s needed for a Church wedding [even though they can’t generally have kids]. They may require hormone treatments and surgery to completely fulfill that role, but it is a very different thing from the transgendered person.

Along with, of course, the neccessity of being able to consummate the marriage through intercourse.
 
Howard_Roark said:
No, it’s the most shallow, as well as being completely useless in real situations.
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Baloney! The outside defining one’s self is most shallow thing on Earth! I know I’ve dealt with that all my life as a transsexual. When one is born hermaphroditic society likes to arbitrarily assign a gender at birth and for the person in question when that person could very well be mentally opposite what that person was assigned which is utterly cruel.:mad:
 
If there was a thread about one-armed gay Polish bricklayers, sure enough someone would post “Well, I’m a one-armed gay Polish bricklayer and I find your post insensitive…”.

First off is, the Church doesn’t “assign” anyone a gender.

Secondly, the Church only deals with this aspect of life in cases where a question si asked about sacraments - “Can I receive the sacrament of marriage” or “Can I be ordained?” and the Church is obliged to answer.

This is actually a fascinating topic you’ve opened. Feelings. As an experiment, imagine someone going to secular court for a trial and basing their case on feelings. That would be, of course, a shallow and ineffective strategy. The Court cannot deal in feelings, it must deal in objective reality. I think everyone can understand that.

When it comes to matters of Canon Law, the Church can’t deal in feelings, either.
 
aspawloski4th said:
I go with what gender the mind and soul are. I the inside is more important than the outside.
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aspawloski4th said:
But it’s the least shallow.
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aspawloski4th said:
Baloney! The outside defining one’s self is most shallow thing on Earth! I know I’ve dealt with that all my life as a transsexual. When one is born hermaphroditic society likes to arbitrarily assign a gender at birth and for the person in question when that person could very well be mentally opposite what that person was assigned which is utterly cruel.:mad:
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The question of who it is that is being shallow must ultimately turn on what it is that is objectively true and how close our deliberations come to that truth. The Church teaches that there are only two genders, male and female, and therefore it follows that every person created is either one or the other. This is an objective reality completely independent of whatever the individual in question may feel about it.

To hold that one can discern one’s own gender based solely upon whatever ephemeral passions one happens to experience is to repudiate the existence of objective truth. The substitute for this truth, one’s own subjective experience, contains no safeguard against personal excess and is therefore vulnerable to the fleeting cravings of the moment.

Unmoored from any sense of objective reality, the idea that one might arrive at one’s own truth about one’s gender, independent of any real data, is a concession to the idea that it is not God who determines reality, but man. As such, I find that position, inherently mired as it is in self-interest, to be far shallower than any other offered in this thread.
 
Howard_Roark said:
If there was a thread about one-armed gay Polish bricklayers, sure enough someone would post “Well, I’m a one-armed gay Polish bricklayer and I find your post insensitive…”.
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aspawloski4th, you have recieved some excellent replies.
 
Sam_Maloney said:
I think the phrase ‘intersexed’ is preferred to ‘hermaphrodite’ [which has an ugly ‘side show freak’ implication] these days.

I know a woman who learned when she was 16 [and hadn’t developed breasts] that she was geneticly male: it’s called ‘androgen insensitivity syndrome’, which prevents the male hormones they’ve been making since they were in the womb from having any effect.

She has always thought of herself as a woman, and as a young girl dreamed of marriage and children, but has had real issues with intimacy due to her condition.

She is very lovely, talented, etc., and has taken female hormones to help her outside match her inside.

She actually has fewer ‘male’ characteristics than most women do: all women have some testosterone [and men, estrogen], but in her case it has no effect.

Such people should be treated with dignitiy and sensitivity, but I’m not sure we need to worry much about their position within the Church. If they appear to belong to one gender and emotionally identify with it, thats likely to be all that’s needed for a Church wedding [even though they can’t generally have kids]. They may require hormone treatments and surgery to completely fulfill that role, but it is a very different thing from the transgendered person.

If they see themselves as intersexed and wish to fulfill a different or dual societal role [some do], then odds are their sexual practices are outside the bounds of Christian marriage anyway.
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I apologize to anyone I have offended through the use of the term “hermaphrodite(s)”. Please, if anyone has been offended by this, please forgive me and accept my sincerest apologies.
 
Holly3278 said:
Hi everyone. As we know from the Bible, there are only two genders: male and female. However, when it comes to hermaphrodites, it is difficult to tell which gender a person is sometimes. I think that sometimes they can’t even tell by looking at the genetics of a person but I am not sure on that one.

Anyway, should hermaphrodites marry if it is inconclusive as to which gender they are or should they remain celibate? 🤷:confused:

What do you think about this issue in general?
Click to expand...
In a case like this it is best to get advice from true experts. There are many knowledgable people on this forum mixed with a few other people. Boards like this are a great way to get additional ideas and help prepare you with questions that you can take to the experts. If you are asking this theoretically you may want to research the genetics. If you are asking because you are aware of a specific situation, you may want to have the person in question contact you local diocese.

Now with all seriousness if someone is in this situation there are probably support groups and in those groups they may find someone whom would be their biological opposite whom they could find a comfortable relationship with.
 
Howard_Roark said:
If there was a thread about one-armed gay Polish bricklayers, sure enough someone would post “Well, I’m a one-armed gay Polish bricklayer and I find your post insensitive…”.
With my sirname I find that to be an ethnic slur. Everyone here knows ever herphrodites are asigned a gender at birth ever if one has organs from both sexes. It is also well known that irreguardless of having both sets that person is going to psychologically identify as one gender of the other in most cases. Thats what Id go with. appearnce and body= superficial. Mind, sprit, and soul= deep.
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Don’t tell me you’re a bricklayer.

To clarify, this is the Catholic Answer message board about Catholicism as defined by the Catholic Church.

I guarantee the Catholic Church doesn’t assign babies a sex at birth in the USA.

So, who are you upset at?
 
Pay no attention Howard…You can’t get any more Polish than my last name and I didn’t see anything at all offfensive about it

Some people just look for things to gripe about
 
Thanks, and I know, so many people are so touchy here.

Maybe we should tell some Polish jokes to lighten the mood.

😃

Or Irish jokes, I’m Irish.
 
Well, I guess I’m a mixed breed then. 😉 I have Irish, German, Scottish, and Welsh in me. 😃 But all in all, I’m American! 🙂
 
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