Herod and Pilate became friends that very day

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From Luke 23:12
Herod and Pilate became friends that very day, even though they had been enemies formerly.
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Why were they enemies and why did they become friends?
 
mark_a said:
From Luke 23:12

Why were they enemies and why did they become friends?
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We don’t know why they were enemies, but the idea that they became friends seems to be part of Luke’s theology of presenting Jesus as, for one thing, the “prince of Peace.”
 
Why would ANY two rulers of neighboring territories become enemies?

Also, I know that Herod was a terribly jealous man and very insecure. Was he the Herod that murdered his wife and children, or was it his uncle (the Herod who had murdered the babies of Bethlehem)?
 
NotWorthy said:
Why would ANY two rulers of neighboring territories become enemies?

Also, I know that Herod was a terribly jealous man and very insecure. Was he the Herod that murdered his wife and children, or was it his uncle (the Herod who had murdered the babies of Bethlehem)?
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The Herod who murded his wife and three of his sons was Herod the Great.

Herod Antipas, who sent Christ back to Pilate, was one of his remaining sons. If he was insecure, I’m not surprised with a model like his father. I suppose they were both insecure, but Herod the Great would have been the insanely jealous one.

I think a Roman contemporary commented about Herod Antipas, “He has all his father’s vices, and none of his virtues”.

A link to Herod Antipas follows -

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herod_Antipas

As for Pilate and Herod becoming friends, I suppose there could be several reasons. Neither of them liked, or were liked by, the Jewish religious authorities. In fact they were both probably hated by the scribes and Pharisees, and I suspect they reciprocated.

By returning Christ to Pilate, Herod had effectively said to the Pharisees and Sadducees that Christ was their problem, not his. Pilate felt exactly the same way.

There’s an old political saying, “The enemy of my enemy is my friend”.

As to Christ being a “peace maker” in this context, I don’t think that is the reason. Both of these men served the devil pretty well, and the devil has the ability to make strange bedfellows when they serve his purpose. Stalin and Hitler were ideological opposites as far as politics was concerned, but Stalin trusted Hitler more than any other Western politician. They had quite a cosy trade arrangment, where Russian raw materials were sent to Germany in exchange for machinery - a form of barter so they didn’t have to use banks, and could avoid problems like borrowing with interest, and a drain on national funds.

Even when Hitler initially invaded Russia, Stalin still couldn’t believe it at first. They hadn’t exactly been friends, but where it suited them, they were prepared to work together since both Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany regarded most Western powers as their enemies.

Similar story, except here the focus of attention is God the Son.
 
Bob_Crowley said:
The Herod who murded his wife and three of his sons was Herod the Great.

Herod Antipas, who sent Christ back to Pilate, was one of his remaining sons. If he was insecure, I’m not surprised with a model like his father. I suppose they were both insecure, but Herod the Great would have been the insanely jealous one.

I think a Roman contemporary commented about Herod Antipas, “He has all his father’s vices, and none of his virtues”.
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Yes, thanks for the clarification. Again, just to explain how “benevolent” these rulers were (note, sarcasm inserted here), one of these Herods had made a bizarre request. Herod told several of his loyal assassins that, when he died, they were to go out and kill several well known people in the area. That way, there would be at least some mourning going on upon Herod’s death.

Also, after hearing of the several “accidental” deaths in Herod’s family, didn’t Ceasar Octavius once say, “It is safer to be one of Herod’s pigs than to be one of his sons”?
 
NotWorthy said:
Why would ANY two rulers of neighboring territories become enemies?
Except that Pilate was not technically the “ruler” of Judea. As the governor of an Imperial province, he was governing Judea in the name of Tiberius Augustus Caesar, whose orders he followed. Herod was a client king, who had already professed loyalty to Rome, as had his ancestor Herod the Great – the idea being that rather than waste good Roman troops policing an area they didn’t need to, they’d cultivate loyal local lords who could raise troops (and you have to remember that any king in they area they’d suffer to let sit on their thrones would be both by design and nature friends of Rome and eager to be on the good side of the Praetor to the south – Judea was right on the border with the Parthian Empire, which was always making noises of overrunning the region).
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It signifies that the prophecy of Ps 2:1-2 was fulfilled. Peter and John explained this in Acts 4:23-28.
 
When I heard this reading the other day, I wondered if Pilate took Herod’s action as validation. Neither of them could find guilt in Christ. Pilate may have taken it as a sign of affinity against the Jews who were causing him so much problems.
 
MarcoPolo said:
When I heard this reading the other day, I wondered if Pilate took Herod’s action as validation. Neither of them could find guilt in Christ. Pilate may have taken it as a sign of affinity against the Jews who were causing him so much problems.
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I don’t think Herod was looking for any guilt in Jesus. Herod was looking for either:

a) a potential political (or military) ally
b) simple party tricks
 
NotWorthy said:
I don’t think Herod was looking for any guilt in Jesus. Herod was looking for either:

a) a potential political (or military) ally
b) simple party tricks
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He probably was looking for those things, certainly the latter. But I only based what I said on passages like Luke’s account of Pilate’s words: "And indeed, having examined Him in your presence, I have found no fault in this Man concerning those things of which you accuse Him; “no, neither did Herod…”
 
MarcoPolo said:
He probably was looking for those things, certainly the latter. But I only based what I said on passages like Luke’s account of Pilate’s words: "And indeed, having examined Him in your presence, I have found no fault in this Man concerning those things of which you accuse Him; “no, neither did Herod…”
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And my thoughts may be influenced by watching Jesus Christ Superstar one too many times! :whistle:
 
=mark a;6453939]From Luke 23:12
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Why were they enemies and why did they become friends?
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There were NOT enimies so much as political rivals.

They became friends when Pilot defered judgement to Herod; bestowing on him a “honor” that he was not politically entitles too. It was a pollitically expedient move.
 
NotWorthy said:
And my thoughts may be influenced by watching Jesus Christ Superstar one too many times! :whistle:
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“So if you are the Christ, you’re the great Jesus Christ
Prove to me that you’re no fool, walk across my swimming pool…” 😛
 
MarcoPolo said:
When I heard this reading the other day, I wondered if Pilate took Herod’s action as validation. Neither of them could find guilt in Christ. Pilate may have taken it as a sign of affinity against the Jews who were causing him so much problems.
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I’ll admit that I’m less willing to see Pilate in a favorable light. I’m kind of thinking that Pilate was more just toying with the priests with his repeated shouts of Jesus being innocent - annoying them for his amusement. If Herod passed judgment on Jesus, he could take him back to Galilee and execute Him, and Pilate would throw the manipulation of the priests back in their faces. And even if Herod did not take that step, Pilate gained the advantage of a diplomatic gesture (he has apparently offended Herod by setting up the votive shields in the Temple or by killing the Galileans referred to by Luke - which is probably what is meant when Luke said that “they were in emnity between themselves”). Sending Jesus to Herod may be Pilate’s way of trying to buy more time into thinking of and executing a counter-move.
 
patrick457 said:
“So if you are the Christ, you’re the great Jesus Christ
Prove to me that you’re no fool, walk across my swimming pool…” 😛
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Thanks, that’s all I need rattling around in my head all evening? Well, it could have been worse. You could have mentioned those Lepers, “See my eyes, I can hardly see…” Oh no! I went there!!!

BTW, have you ever seen the stage version? The guy that plays Herod is a hoot. They let him be any character he wants to be. I’ve heard of Herod being played by an Elvis impersonator, a flaming drag queen, and a biker dude.
 
patrick457 said:
I’ll admit that I’m less willing to see Pilate in a favorable light. I’m kind of thinking that Pilate was more just toying with the priests with his repeated shouts of Jesus being innocent - annoying them for his amusement. If Herod passed judgment on Jesus, he could take him back to Galilee and execute Him, and Pilate would throw the manipulation of the priests back in their faces. And even if Herod did not take that step, Pilate gained the advantage of a diplomatic gesture (he has apparently offended Herod by setting up the votive shields in the Temple or by killing the Galileans referred to by Luke - which is probably what is meant when Luke said that “they were in emnity between themselves”). Sending Jesus to Herod may be Pilate’s way of trying to buy more time into thinking of and executing a counter-move.
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Personally, I think Pilate was trying to get rid of this hot potato.

There is a reason that the author of one of the Gospels (Marks?) claims that Pilate’s wife had a dream and told him not to mess with Jesus.
 
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