Herod and Pilate became friends that very day

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While I agree that Pilate was doing all kinds of political maneuvers, I think historically, he was trying to pawn off Jesus on Herod to avoid anymore trouble from his territory in the eyes of Caesar. As I understand, Caesar was already not that happy with Pilate’s control of the people in his territory.
:o
 
While I agree that Pilate was doing all kinds of political maneuvers, I think historically, he was trying to pawn off Jesus on Herod to avoid anymore trouble from his territory in the eyes of Caesar. As I understand, Caesar was already not that happy with Pilate’s control of the people in his territory.
:o
I think you are correct. Wasn’t Pilate removed from his position within a few years of Jesus’ death?

In addition, when one realizes that one is the governor of the backwater region of Judea, its easy to figure out that one is not listed among “Caesar’s favorites”.
 
I think you are correct. Wasn’t Pilate removed from his position within a few years of Jesus’ death?

In addition, when one realizes that one is the governor of the backwater region of Judea, its easy to figure out that one is not listed among “Caesar’s favorites”.
Haha. I’m sure I’ve heard as much at some point over the years on CAL.
 
I’ve heard that as well, from several sources. And important to note that in Roman rule at the time “removed from office” didn’t mean he got a desk job. It meant he got a sword through his chest or neck.

However, I’ve always been interested in how the gospels tend to portray Pilate in a more or less benevolent light, not really wanting to execute him. Whereas some historians portray him as a tyranical and murdering dictator.

Of course none of these references I’ve read myself, so it’s all hearsay.
 
I’ve heard that as well, from several sources. And important to note that in Roman rule at the time “removed from office” didn’t mean he got a desk job. It meant he got a sword through his chest or neck.

However, I’ve always been interested in how the gospels tend to portray Pilate in a more or less benevolent light, not really wanting to execute him. Whereas some historians portray him as a tyranical and murdering dictator.

Of course none of these references I’ve read myself, so it’s all hearsay.
If I recall correctly, the Gospel of Peter (or is it the Apocalypse of Peter?), a gnostic writing, almost beatified our good Pilate.
 
I’ve heard that as well, from several sources. And important to note that in Roman rule at the time “removed from office” didn’t mean he got a desk job. It meant he got a sword through his chest or neck.

However, I’ve always been interested in how the gospels tend to portray Pilate in a more or less benevolent light, not really wanting to execute him. Whereas some historians portray him as a tyranical and murdering dictator.

Of course none of these references I’ve read myself, so it’s all hearsay.
Let me first say that you are right about Roman removal. Although, I can claim no expertise in this particular area of history. I have never heard that Pilate was removed. I do remember hearing that he was called back to Rome some seven or eight years after the Crucufxcion of our Lord. There was an uprising and Pilate may have gotten a bit carried away, even by Roman standards and killed everybody. He was put on trial sort of speak, but I’m pretty sure he was allowed to continue on in his role. Reminded me a bit of the Capt. Bligh situation. I think that this may also be root cause for why Herrod sent Jesus back. Roman prefects were very concerned and were largely judged by their application of Roman Law. I read a while back about Pliny (may have mispelled) writing to the emporer about his prosecution of a Christian. He wrote to make sure he had done it right and I think to kind of get ahead the problem in case he didn’t. There is also the whole issue of the precarious balance of political power that existed during that time, but that’s a story for another day.
 
Thanks, that’s all I need rattling around in my head all evening? Well, it could have been worse. You could have mentioned those Lepers, “See my eyes, I can hardly see…” Oh no! I went there!!!
You know what’s interesting? That scene was actually based from a few lines in Matthew (21:14-16):

And the blind and the lame came to him in the temple, and he healed them. But when the chief priests and the scribes saw the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying out in the temple, “Hosanna to the Son of David!” they were indignant, and they said to him, “Do you hear what these are saying?” And Jesus said to them, “Yes; have you never read,

“‘Out of the mouth of infants and nursing babies
you have prepared praise’?”

Though the way it’s presented makes it look more like Matthew 21:14 meets John 6:15. 😃
BTW, have you ever seen the stage version? The guy that plays Herod is a hoot. They let him be any character he wants to be. I’ve heard of Herod being played by an Elvis impersonator, a flaming drag queen, and a biker dude.
Well, Herod’s number is pretty much the only light-hearted song in the whole opera, so that’s not surprising. 😉
I haven’t seen any stage production of JCS but I did see both of the two film versions, with their flamboyant party-animal Herod and Herod the game-show host (sometimes I wonder whether Mel Gibson got his characterization of Herod in The Passion from the 1973 film :D)
 
If I recall correctly, the Gospel of Peter (or is it the Apocalypse of Peter?), a gnostic writing, almost beatified our good Pilate.
Yes, because Herod is the one who sentences Jesus!

…But of the Jews none washed his hands, neither Herod nor one of his judges. And since they did not desire to wash, Pilate stood up. And then Herod the king orders the Lord to be taken away, having said to them, ‘What I ordered you to do, do.’

But Joseph, the friend of Pilate and of the Lord, had been standing there; and knowing they were about to crucify him, he came before Pilate and requested the body of the Lord for burial. And Pilate, having sent to Herod, requested his body. And Herod said: ‘Brother Pilate, even if no one had requested him, we would have buried him, since indeed Sabbath is dawning. For in the Law it has been written: The sun is not to set on one put to death.’

BTW, that’s from the Gospel of Peter.
 
Great topic. I just read a book that looks at the best of the ancient sources on this very subject. “Year of the Passover” by John Hagan.
In it, Hagan spends a lot of time determining that the crucifixion occurred in A.D. 36. Using that year and correlating it with known Roman and Jewish history, the relationship between Pilate and Antipas becomes somewhat clearer.
Why was their antipathy between Pilate and Antipas?
-Antipas decades before had been in Herod the Great’s will as the sole inheritor of his kingdom, which included Jerusalem and Judea. A later will overturned that, and Augustus upheld it. So that might have been a smoldering issue with Antipas.
-Pilate did slay a lot of Galileans during a disturbance at a previous Passover. This could have been in response to Pilate’s aqueduct project, which he wanted to fund partially from Temple money, the Corban.
-Pilate was likely an appointee of Sejanus, whom Tiberius had executed for treason in A.D. 31. Pilate likely escaped the wrath of Tiberius only because Tiberius was loath to remove any of his foreign officials. Antipas, on the other hand, was a close friend of Tiberius.
-Antipas’ army had recently been destroyed by King Aretas of Nabotea. Pilate’s forces did not help Antipas, for whatever reason.

So a previous poster was quite right that Pilate’s “turfing” off of Jesus was a sign of respect and a “peace” offering by Pilate to the son of Herod the Great. Antipas knew, however, that Jesus was a “hot potato”, and so did not render judgment, or assume control of Jesus and send him back to the Galilee. He did, however, dress up Jesus in one of his purple robes (Antipas was staying in one of the towers of the Herod palace complex close to the Praetorium), and parade him around in front of Pilate, which Pilate enjoyed. The mocked Jesus was a signal to Pilate from Antipas that his gesture was appreciated and the past was forgotten.

BTW, at that same Passover was later held a summit meeting where an invasion of Nabotea was to be planned, avenging Antipas’ defeat. Arriving soon after jesus’ crucifixion was Lucius Vitellius, the president of Syria and the most powerful Roman in the East. Tiberius had charged him with defeating Nabotea and beheading King Aretas.

A lot of stuff going on. Read the book. Very interesting.
 
From Luke 23:12

Why were they enemies and why did they become friends?
The Bible does not say but Josephus offers a clue. Herod Antipas prosecuted an unauthorized war against the king of Nabatea (Aretas). The stated reason for the war was a border dispute but it the underlying reason was probably that Antipas divorced Aretas’ daughter to marry Herodias. When Aretas defeated Antipas on the field of battle, the Jews said it was God’s punishment for having executed John the Baptist. This incident left Antipas in trouble with Rome and Pontius Pilate was the Roman prefect of Judea. Why did the two become friends the day Jesus was crucified? One reading is that Antipas bribed Pilate to execute Jesus. How does a New Jersey businessman become friends with Tony Soprano? Only one way, pay lots of money. Roman administrators were notoriously corrupt in the provinces with their hands constantly extended for bribes.
 
www.sacred-texts.com/chr/pjc/pjc35.htm an
interesting take
on this subject 201:1 The cause of the quarrel between Pilate and Herod was,
according to the account of Sister Emmerich, simply this: Pilate
had undertaken to build an aqueduct on the south-east side of the
mountain on which the Temple stood, at the edge of the torrent
into which the waters of the pool of Bethsaida emptied
themselves, and this aqueduct was to carry off the refuse of the
Temple. Herod, through the medium of one of his confidants,
who was a member of the Sanhedrim, agreed to furnish him with
the necessary materials, as also with twenty-eight architects, who
were also Herodians. His aim was to set the Jews still more
against the Roman governor, by causing the undertaking to fail.
He accordingly came to a private understanding with the
architects, who agreed to construct the aqueduct in such a
manner that it would be certain to fall. When the work was
almost finished, and a number of bricklayers from Ophel were
busily employed in removing the scaffolding, the twenty-eight
builders went on to the top of the Tower of Siloe to contemplate
the crash which they knew must take place. Not only did the
whole of the building crumble to pieces, fall, and kill ninety-three
workmen, but even the tower containing the twenty-eight
architects came down, and not one escaped death. This accident
occurred a short time previous to the 8th of January, two years
after Jesus had commenced preaching; it took place on Herod’s
birthday, the same day that John the Baptist was beheaded in the
Castle of Marcherunt. No Roman officer attended these festivities
on account of the affair of the aqueduct, although Pilate had, with
hypocritical politeness, been requested to take a part in them.
Sister Emmerich saw some of the disciples of Jesus carry the news
of this event into Samaria, where he was teaching, on the 8th of
January. Jesus went from thence to Hebron, to comfort the family
of John; and she saw him, on the 13th of January, cure many
among the workmen of Ophel who had been injured by the fall of
the aqueduct. We have seen by the relation previously given how
little gratitude they p. 202 showed him. The enmity of Herod
towards Pilate was still farther increased by the manner in which
the latter revenged himself on the followers of Herod. We will
insert here a few details which were communicated at different
times to Sister Emmerich. On the 25th of March, of the second year
of our Lord’s preaching, when Jesus and his disciples were in the
neighbourhood of Bethania, they were warned by Lazarus that
Judas of Gaulon intended to excite an insurrection against Pilate.
On the 28th of March, Pilate issued a proclamation to the effect
that he intended to impose a tax, the proceeds of which were
partly to cover the expenses he had incurred in raising the
building which had just fallen to the ground. This announcement
was followed by a sedition headed by Judas of Gaulon, who
always stood up for liberty, and who was (unknown to himself) a
tool in the hands of the Herodians. The Herodians were rather like
our Freemasons. On the 30th of March, at ten o’clock P.M., Jesus,
dressed in a dark garment, was teaching in the Temple, with his
Apostles and thirty disciples. The revolt of the Galilæans against
Pilate burst forth on this very day, and the rebels set free fifty of
their number who had been imprisoned the day before; and
many among the Romans were killed. On the 6th of April, Pilate
caused the Galilæans to be massacred at the moment of offering
sacrifice, by disguised soldiers whom he had concealed in the
Temple. Judas was killed with his companions. This massacre
exasperated Herod still more against Pilate, and we have just
seen by what means their reconciliation was affected.
 
Sister Emmerich?!

Ouch!

I am not sure I would put much “faith” in the visions of someone who lived 1700 years after the actual event.

Thanks for sharing, though.
 
Sister Emmerich?!

Ouch!

I am not sure I would put much “faith” in the visions of someone who lived 1700 years after the actual event.

Thanks for sharing, though.
Great point. Thanks.
 
Interesting subject…I have never taken it for anything more than what we read in the Bible. Pilate was afraid Jesus was a king, a political king who was going to try to overthrow the Roman emperor. After he evaluates the situation, he assesses Jesus is harmless, finds Him guilty of no crime and sends him to Herod for a second opinion. Herod is looking forward to meeting Jesus but assesses Him to be no threat. So they bond over the fact that Jesus is not the “king” of the Jews who will overthrow the Roman government. That is why PIlate writes the inscription “King of the Jews” on the crucifix. Then the Jews argue with Pilate over what he has written and Pilate is basically like, “I’ve written what I’ve written and I am not going to change it!”
 
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