hey ATHIESTS, was Hitler right?

[ralphinal]

I agree. Sometimes I feel that I am one of the few Christians who will publicly say that you can be ethical (and moral, actually) without a religious code. I think that it comes from the idea that atheists are atheists because they want to live a life that Christians consider sinful. From what I have seen in my personal life, that is generally not the case.

The stem-cell issue is a wonderful example. One of the issues with the embryonic cells is that the actual treatments were not as successful as the adult-donor cells. The pro-embryonic folks did not like to concede that point, and in some ways I understand why. They felt that the research was hindered and they did not want to cut off a path. Now, the use of reclaimed skin cells is showing to be better than ever thought. Within a decade, this argument might be a footnote in legal and medical books.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Kirchoff
Why is humanity worth saving?

Because we are human and most of us are not suicidal. We are just deluded.

Humans are worth saving because we are non-suicidal yet possibly/probably deluded humans?

What about us being human, and non-suicidal, makes us worth saving?

I suspect your answer will be, “Simply BECAUSE we’re human!”

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote:
Originally Posted by notself
Are you suggesting that life is not precious to other species? Perhaps you can give an example of such a group.

No, but I see where you read that into it. Life is precious to other species, if no life other than their own or their progeny. I think that humans may have the lowest “opinion” of life. We kill for sport, we kill for fun, we kill because we don;t think about it. We create bad situations for other creatures. We are the jerks of the animal kingdom

We ARE the “jerks” of the universe, not just the “animal kingdom”, precisely BECAUSE we have been given God’s likeness (free will being a largish part of that) and we have the UNIQUE capacity for “jerkitude”!

You have JUST proven to yourself that we are in fact unique. Now, why are we unique?

Is our life more precious than animals? Do we have the right to say that? Why would it be wrong to abort a baby with birth defects? Or one that is the wrong gender? Of has the wrong eye color? Or kill the aged or inferm?

Our life, human life, IS more precious than ANY other life precisely because it is qualitatively “more important”. It is more important because it is a unique and superior creation of God.

Now, if you don’t see God as God then that makes no sense whatsoever, and there really is no reason for saying that our unique ability to be “jerks” or “saints” makes us more important than bacteria.

It would be just as right, or wrong, in that case, to kill your neighbor as clean your toilette.

 

[notself]

Humans are worth saving because we are non-suicidal yet possibly/probably deluded humans?

What about us being human, and non-suicidal, makes us worth saving?

I suspect your answer will be, “Simply BECAUSE we’re human!”

Of course the question related to the degradation of the environment. I said that because as a species, we do not want to commit suicide (genocide on ourselves) we need to save (maintain) the environment that best suits us.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Of course the question related to the degradation of the environment. I said that because as a species, we do not want to commit suicide (genocide on ourselves) we need to save (maintain) the environment that best suits us.

We, as a species, would be BETTER off if we destroyed all of the “weak” people.

That is precisely how the animal kingdom operates. ALL other animal species practice eugenic genocide, either by directly killing their rivals or driving them into territory where they are doomed to dwindle and die off.

To BEST assure our continuation as the most “healthy” and “fit” species, we should reduce our numbers to only those “most fit” by eliminating them as soon as possible.

This is the natural (mechanistic evolutionary) result of valuing “humanity in the environment” over “the human person”.

To worship nature, or even “humanity within nature”, is to minimize humanity to only “the best”, so as to do as little “damage to the environment” as possible, and the “human person” is overidden as a value for obvious reasons.

Do you subscribe to this thinking?

 

[ralphinal]

You know, I think I like the idea that humans are more precious since we have the capacity for being the biggest jerks in the universe. It is certainly easier for most of us to relate to then the idea that we can think (no evidence in many), dream (see think), use logic (again, little proof all are capable), etc. I wonder if the atheists woudl accept it.

I feel that we are special because we are in the image and likeness of God, but that holds no water with those who think that God is created in the image and likeness of man.

 

[notself]

We, as a species, would be BETTER off if we destroyed all of the “weak” people.

That is precisely how the animal kingdom operates. ALL other animal species practice eugenic genocide, either by directly killing their rivals or driving them into territory where they are doomed to dwindle and die off.

To BEST assure our continuation as the most “healthy” and “fit” species, we should reduce our numbers to only those “most fit” by eliminating them as soon as possible.

This is the natural (mechanistic evolutionary) result of valuing “humanity in the environment” over “the human person”.

To worship nature, or even “humanity within nature”, is to minimize humanity to only “the best”, so as to do as little “damage to the environment” as possible, and the “human person” is overidden as a value for obvious reasons.

Do you subscribe to this thinking?

No

 

[notself]

You know, I think I like the idea that humans are more precious since we have the capacity for being the biggest jerks in the universe. It is certainly easier for most of us to relate to then the idea that we can think (no evidence in many), dream (see think), use logic (again, little proof all are capable), etc. I wonder if the atheists woudl accept it.

I feel that we are special because we are in the image and likeness of God, but that holds no water with those who think that God is created in the image and likeness of man.

I am confused. Are you saying that you think man is created in the image and likeness of God and that man is the biggest jerk in the universe? What then does that make God?

 

[ralphinal]

I am confused. Are you saying that you think man is created in the image and likeness of God and that man is the biggest jerk in the universe? What then does that make God?

No. I am not saying that. LOL. It does look that way, doesn’t it. We are jerks because we have free will. The image and likeness of God is that we have an imortal soul and we have intellect and will. God did not create us to be jerks, but He gave us the ability to choose to be jerks.

 

[notself]

No. I am not saying that. LOL. It does look that way, doesn’t it. We are jerks because we have free will. The image and likeness of God is that we have an imortal soul and we have intellect and will. God did not create us to be jerks, but He gave us the ability to choose to be jerks.

That’s a relief. I was afraid for your immortal soul.

 

[ralphinal]

That’s a relief. I was afraid for your immortal soul.

Thanks. Besides, God knows that we are jerks.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalmDownWisWins
Humans are worth saving because we are non-suicidal yet possibly/probably deluded humans?

What about us being human, and non-suicidal, makes us worth saving?

I suspect your answer will be, “Simply BECAUSE we’re human!”

Of course the question related to the degradation of the environment. I said that because as a species, we do not want to commit suicide (genocide on ourselves) we need to save (maintain) the environment that best suits us.

But why should we want to not commit OTHER HUMAN’S to “suicide”? The question isn’t why YOU are worth saving (not killing) but why it’s not good to kill others!

Wouldn’t it more advantageous to the species to be rid of those less worthy? Why not kill them?

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

You know, I think I like the idea that humans are more precious since we have the capacity for being the biggest jerks in the universe. It is certainly easier for most of us to relate to then the idea that we can think (no evidence in many), dream (see think), use logic (again, little proof all are capable), etc. I wonder if the atheists woudl accept it.

I feel that we are special because we are in the image and likeness of God, but that holds no water with those who think that God is created in the image and likeness of man.

To the atheist, who values men only in a “utilitarian” way, usually because other men, once they “sync up” with the goals of “the intelligencia”, are very useful “tools” in accomplishing the aforementioned goals of the intelligencia, humans are both equally more valuable and more dangerous than any other life form.

The obvious solution to bringing society to a “better state” is to simply eliminate the dangerous ones.

The most “humanitarian” way to do that is to drive them into the wilderness, where they will either die or develop into an isolated enemy which they can remotely destroy without wounding their own territory.

If God doesn’t “make right” a thing, then only might can “make right” a thing. It’s like the nonsense of being half-pregnant. You’re either pregnant or not. You base morality on either God or might.

All valuation is based on faith in something. If one’s faith is that “without ‘earthly’ existence nothing is of value to me”, then might is the inevitable and ultimate tool and object of “adoration”.

Those so-called, self-professed, atheists out there aren’t really atheists at all. They are simply “protestants” (in the MOST generic meaning possible re “The Church”) who’d rather do things in their own way.

God love 'em! and the only way into their hearts we can hope for is for us to set a great example. Am I an even GOOD example? Heck no. But I’m working on it.

(( Of course the occassional “getting hit by a bus” sort of conversion DOES happen, so we can always hope for more “buses” to roll along. And I DON’T [necessarily] mean actual buses! ))

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalmDownWisWins …

To worship nature, or even “humanity within nature”, is to minimize humanity to only “the best”, so as to do as little “damage to the environment” as possible, and the “human person” is overidden as a value for obvious reasons.

Do you subscribe to this thinking?

No

Well, that’s a start!

Care to share what your actual beliefs ARE as to how men can be “of value” without God?

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

I am confused. Are you saying that you think man is created in the image and likeness of God and that man is the biggest jerk in the universe? What then does that make God?

Man has the potential of being both the best creature or the worst creature.

God gave us the choice. What does that make God?

 

[notself]

Well, that’s a start!

Care to share what your actual beliefs ARE as to how men can be “of value” without God?

Please read my previous posts where I explain my beliefs.

You may find it useful to get some rest and drink more water. Some of you posts give the impression you are under a lot of stress.

 

[justinthemartyr]

I find placing all of my fears on a sheet of paper and going through each one with another individual to see which ones I have any control over and which I do not. Inevitably I find that I can only do something about 10% of the list, which is relieving because I can give God the rest. That helps relieve my stress, that and pray and meditation, especially in front of the Eucharist, who is Jesus, Body Blood Soul and Divinity.

by the way Notself, what gives Humans the ability to acknowledge God in every age and worship Him, yet no other creature on earth can do this?

 

[Valke2]

I find placing all of my fears on a sheet of paper and going through each one with another individual to see which ones I have any control over and which I do not. Inevitably I find that I can only do something about 10% of the list, which is relieving because I can give God the rest. That helps relieve my stress, that and pray and meditation, especially in front of the Eucharist, who is Jesus, Body Blood Soul and Divinity.

by the way Notself, what gives Humans the ability to acknowledge God in every age and worship Him, yet no other creature on earth can do this?

We are God’s Cantors. We speak for all life.

 

[justinthemartyr]

And we have been given authority over all life, to give dignity to other Humans and worship God in Spirit and in Truth in the way that He has revealed to His people.

That authority is God given. There is no other explanation for morality amongst humans. There is no other explanation than sin nature for the lack of morality and the indignity we sometimes place on others, especially the unborn.

 

[notself]

I find placing all of my fears on a sheet of paper and going through each one with another individual to see which ones I have any control over and which I do not. Inevitably I find that I can only do something about 10% of the list, which is relieving because I can give God the rest. That helps relieve my stress, that and pray and meditation, especially in front of the Eucharist, who is Jesus, Body Blood Soul and Divinity.

by the way Notself, what gives Humans the ability to acknowledge God in every age and worship Him, yet no other creature on earth can do this?

How do you know this is true? We know so little about animals and their behavior. We know nothing about their thoughts.