hey ATHIESTS, was Hitler right?

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justinthemartyr said:
fantastic. the less extremists to attack us the better, take the war to them instead of waiting for it here.

now, back to the topic, athiests,. is the murder of millions of people bad?
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Answer the question, why is your position logically different from an atheist position?
 
justinthemartyr said:
yes, I support whatever is for the greater good of the people involved, including those being persecuted and murdered by their own leader.

You don’t? You think that leaders of countries should murder their own people in the hundreds of thousands?

I see what you are made of now.
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So we wage a preemptive war based on misinformation about weapons of mass distruction. We are wrong. So all the killing, maiming, distruction of property, disruption of the economy, is OK because our intentions were good?

Countries all over the world are murdering their people in hundreds and thousands. We aren’t sending our troops to Dafur, to Burma, to China. Should we invade all of those countrie as well?

Would you feel the same if we had a universal draft and you had to go to a strange land and kill somone you have never met in order to stop the killing?

I think I know a little more about you as well.
 
notself said:
So we wage a preemptive war based on misinformation about weapons of mass distruction. We are wrong. So all the killing, maiming, distruction of property, disruption of the economy, is OK because our intentions were good?

Countries all over the world are murdering their people in hundreds and thousands. We aren’t sending our troops to Dafur, to Burma, to China. Should we invade all of those countrie as well?

Would you feel the same if we had a universal draft and you had to go to a strange land and kill somone you have never met in order to stop the killing?

I think I know a little more about you as well.
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this is your personal and tunnel visioned view of the situation, and you are allowed that.

A mass murderer was killed and thousands upon thousands of extremist islamics were killed as a good result of this war. It is for the greater good of humanity, not just the USA. 🙂
 
notself said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalmDownWisWins
Buddhists are not “atheists”. They believe in an ordering principle, essentially mechanical, which is “supernatural”.

“Atheists” (so-called) don’t believe in ANYTHING supernatural.

The reason that buddhists have a human-valuation ethic is because there is SOMETHING which will stomp on you if you do “acts bad for your karma”. It’s a rather “mercantile” operation really: “Pay this, get that, do that, get fined this.”

That “something” is a partial recognition of God, badly misinterpreted.

Karma/kamma is not considered supernatural by Buddhists. It is considered prefectly natural cause and effect. The complete term is kamma which means action and vipaka which means result. Action and the results from action is not super-natural.

Karma does not exist separate from action. It is not worshipped or revered.
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I’m not proposing that “karma” is the buddhist “God”. It the “mechanics” of their “ordering principle”.

And by “supernatural” I mean “perfectly natural but of an ‘above nature’ level of nature/reality”.

Things which I would call “supernatural” are considered by me to be perfectly natural in that they are indeed a part of reality.

My point was that so-called “atheists” firmly believe that there is no such thing as that which a non-“atheist” would call “supernatural”.

You may “narrow” your definition of “atheist” to mean “does not believe in any ‘god’ like that which I call ‘god’”, but I may also “expand” the word “non-atheist” to mean anyone who believes in any organizing principle upon which the universe operates.

Placing ANY value on human life is always based on some expected RIGHTFUL consequence of violating another’s humanity. Once anyone senses that human life IS valuable and to violate it is wrong, they admit God exists as “that which will enforce the RIGHTFULLNESS of that sensed value”.

If they truly see that sense of value as “arbitrary”, then they are sociopaths and TRUE Atheists. If they simply have no need to clarify their sense as to why human life has value they are common preoccupied little-“a” (so-called) atheists.

Luckily there are many more little-“a” (so-called) atheists. 🙂
 
CalmDownWisWins said:
That “something” is a partial recognition of God, badly misinterpreted.
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You dont speak for buddhists and you have no right misrepresenting their beliefs. The fact still remains that they dont believe in God. Therefore this assertion by the OP is wrong:
This is why people who do not believe in God cannot offer any objective reason for saying that they themselves have value as human beings.
 
the assertion that ALL buddhists do not believe in God is incorrect, as I stated, I know many who do.
 
justinthemartyr said:
the assertion that ALL buddhists do not believe in God is incorrect, as I stated, I know many who do.
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our buddhist friend **notself **confirmed that buddhists dont believe in god. if you want to contradict that, please show us buddhist testimonials who believe in god. and mind you the mistranslation that notself had been speaking of. saying ‘god’ is not enough. there has to be a verification of the ‘god’ being the supreme being creator of everything.
 
great, one buddhist claimant among many claims that ALL buddhists do not believe in God, does that make it true?

no.

That is like saying that all mormons believe God the Father had sexual reletions with Mary the Mother of Jesus, when it is a fact that they all do not.

a generality at best.
 
justinthemartyr said:
this is your personal and tunnel visioned view of the situation, and you are allowed that.

A mass murderer was killed and thousands upon thousands of extremist islamics were killed as a good result of this war. It is for the greater good of humanity, not just the USA. 🙂
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He has said other things in this thread that are not true so i would like to see a definitive link .
 
justinthemartyr said:
great, one buddhist claimant among many claims that ALL buddhists do not believe in God, does that make it true?
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one is better than nothing. show something to the contrary. just one. and mind you the mistranslation issue.
 
AgnosTheist said:
You dont speak for buddhists and you have no right misrepresenting their beliefs. The fact still remains that they dont believe in God. Therefore this assertion by the OP is wrong:
This is why people who do not believe in God cannot offer any objective reason for saying that they themselves have value as human beings.
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You don’t speak for anyone but yourself, as I do, and your opinions say much about you, just as I hope mine say much about me. 🙂

We are coming to know what you mean by “God”, and “atheist”, and various other things. That is a good thing. That we disagree on what these things mean is just that. We can certaily agree to disagree and remain friends, don’t you think?

I do like your simple logic based on simple dictionary defintions of inherently personal things. You are your own Pope, and most likely your own god. Such a nice situation to be in while it works for you! Let’s hope it continues to work for you. 🙂
 
CalmDownWisWins said:
You are your own Pope
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I’m not so arrogant as to believe I am infallible! 😃

Anyway I agree with buddhists who say that whether or not god exists, its not important for the moment. God doesnt really help anyone. Its you who help or condemn yourself. Prayers are technically useful only for raising morale. Thats it!
 
justinthemartyr said:
link to what? reality?
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Some Buddhists believe in gods, some don’t - but belief in gods is not at all required by Buddhism and, arguably, is actually recommended against. This makes Buddhism and atheistic religion - both in practice because of the Buddhists who are also atheists and in theory because of the lack of any defining teachings about the existence of gods.

atheism.about.com/b/2004/02/23/gods-in-buddhism.htm
 
AT is not infallible, he is just never wrong 👍

Anyway, I agree that many non-Christians value life more than many Christians. All of them have a reason to. This thread was built on the false arguement that in order to have morals (or ethics) one must have a religious code. I do not hold to that thought.
 
ralphinal said:
AT is not infallible, he is just never wrong 👍
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hey i’ve been wrong here several times before. and i always admit that! ask estebob, he likely remembers the last time i conceded to him! 😃
ralphinal said:
Anyway, I agree that many non-Christians value life more than many Christians. All of them have a reason to. This thread was built on the false arguement that in order to have morals (or ethics) one must have a religious code. I do not hold to that thought.
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🙂
 
ralphinal said:
AT is not infallible, he is just never wrong 👍

Anyway, I agree that many non-Christians value life more than many Christians. All of them have a reason to. This thread was built on the false arguement that in order to have morals (or ethics) one must have a religious code. I do not hold to that thought.
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I thought I made a mistake once but i was wrong.
 
God gave us religion.

religion binds us again to God through it’s meaningful discipline and structure and has since the earliest recorded history. Prayer is much more than a morale booster, as it helps us grow closer to God and therefore become able to do His will better, just as Mother Teresa was able to. 🙂

buit you are always afforded your beliefs, even if they are true or not.
 
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