"Hey Dude, where's my Progress?!?!"

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Captain_America

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Here’s some real progress for ya!

—more abortion

—more pot-smoking

—women being put into front-line combat

–sex fiends in politics getting an “it’s OK” media blessing

–corporations ducking responsibilities to employees

–economy-sinking healthcare legislation

–race and gender counting for more than ability

–vehement anti-religious propaganda
 
Captain_America said:
Here’s some real progress for ya!

—more abortion

—more pot-smoking

—women being put into front-line combat

–sex fiends in politics getting an “it’s OK” media blessing

–corporations ducking responsibilities to employees

–economy-sinking healthcare legislation

–race and gender counting for more than ability

–vehement anti-religious propaganda
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I think what a lot of people don’t realize is that when progressives promise progress, it is progress in a downwards direction.
 
Captain_America said:
Here’s some real progress for ya!

—more abortion (evidence that it is on the rise?)

—more pot-smoking (evidence that it is on the rise?)

—women being put into front-line combat

–sex fiends in politics getting an “it’s OK” media blessing (the press used to just turn a blind eye)

–corporations ducking responsibilities to employees (what is new in this area?)

–economy-sinking healthcare legislation

–race and gender counting for more than ability (compared to when? Oh wait… you mean reverse discrimination?)

–vehement anti-religious propaganda (centuries old)
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Most of these have been around for ages. You think it’s worse today, but is it really?
 
Why is women in combat on this list as if it’s a bad thing?
 
I don’t believe in “progressivism” by any stretch, but can anyone explain why “1950s suburban America” was the pinnacle of human achievement in all ways, and why we must socially, technologically, and culturally revert back to it in order to regain all morality and righteousness as a society? I can’t. 1950s America was very paranoid and on the verge of nuclear annihilation at every turn… hardly a golden age. No time can be pointed to as a model of perfection, no matter what our sentimentality is for it.

On the other hand, I think Christianity has been very progressive, just not in the ways listed. The Sadduccees were very conservative and antagonistic to new ideas like “resurrection of the dead” and such. Jesus showed that every now and then a “new idea” CAN be a good idea. The Church is not just supposed to be a museum of all that is “forever old” but is also supposed to be an instrument of true progress for all that is forever new.

I suppose my point is, I don’t agree with “progressivism” or “conservatism.” All fall short of the glory of God.
 
Compared with what period? The abortion rate is at its lowest since Roe v. Wade was decided.
 
gracepoole said:
Compared with what period? The abortion rate is at its lowest since Roe v. Wade was decided.
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Well, Roe v. Wade should still must be thrown out.

I really cannot sit here and say that less abortions is a bad thing, but it’s also worth noting that contraception use to prevent pregnancy is also very sinful. :yup:
 
Mark86 said:
I don’t believe in “progressivism” by any stretch, but can anyone explain why “1950s suburban America” was the pinnacle of human achievement in all ways, and why we must socially, technologically, and culturally revert back to it in order to regain all morality and righteousness as a society? I can’t. 1950s America was very paranoid and on the verge of nuclear annihilation at every turn… hardly a golden age. No time can be pointed to as a model of perfection, no matter what our sentimentality is for it.

On the other hand, I think Christianity has been very progressive, just not in the ways listed. The Sadduccees were very conservative and antagonistic to new ideas like “resurrection of the dead” and such. Jesus showed that every now and then a “new idea” CAN be a good idea. The Church is not just supposed to be a museum of all that is “forever old” but is also supposed to be an instrument of true progress for all that is forever new.

I suppose my point is, I don’t agree with “progressivism” or “conservatism.” All fall short of the glory of God.
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I’m of TWO MINDS in responding to you. First, I could say, “well, I wasn’t taking the 1950s as the Gold Standard for Society.” And I wasn’t.

BUT THEN, why not? I think the slap-criticism of “you just want things the way they were in the 1950s” is terribly inadequate; it seriously oversimplifies the decade and US society. I think this criticism is based on a handful of screwy black and white television shows rather than sociological awareness.

At best, I think we all like the things that are admired in the 1950s: a more stable family life, an expanding economy which opened up new opportunities all around (yes, definitely including minorities), and – due to the horrors of WW2 – a more central place in peoples’ lives for religion.

But my real answer here is that I’m not “hearkening back” at all. I want us all to make the world a better place, and having women in combat is a misstep there, as well as pot legalization, abortion.
 
QuasiCatholic said:
Why is women in combat on this list as if it’s a bad thing?
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GEddie said:
Because in some places/sectors, chivalry is confused with Christendom.

ICXC NIKA
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Joie_de_Vivre said:
http://robledo.fromthefog.com/upstanders/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/related10.jpg
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“Clearly you don’t know our women. I might as well have marched them up here, judging by what I’ve seen.” - King Leonidas, 300

P.S.

If my family were the army, my mother would be the general and my father’s the politician. :eek:
Captain_America said:
At best, I think we all like the things that are admired in the 1950s: a more stable family life, an expanding economy which opened up new opportunities all around (yes, definitely including minorities), and – due to the horrors of WW2 – a more central place in peoples’ lives for religion.
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You call this opportunities?



Culture-wise, I’d sooner go back to the bloody height of the crusades or the scattered kingdoms of my country’s own pre-Chrisian era than live in banal, cheesy Pleasantville thank you.
 
edwest2 said:
Oh yes, it’s gotten worse.

amazon.com/Marketing-Evil-Pseudo-Experts-Corruption-Disguised/dp/1935071254

amazon.com/Extreme-Makeover-Transformed-Conformed-Culture/dp/1586175610

There’s more.

Ed
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I totally agree, plus back when the ‘sex fiends’ in washington were covered up by the media, along with them now being ‘outed’, many of these senators and congressmen (along with CEOs of HUGE companies), are the leaders of pedophile sex slave rings!

I often ask myself ‘how much worse can it get’ or ‘what could possibly be next’? LOL Seems to me our modern society is getting FAR too accepting of just about any kind of sexual relationship possible, and just getting worse and worse imo.

If this keep going in the same direction, we are going to be a society that accepts literally ANYTHING when it comes to sex, relationships, whether it involves kids, animals, cars, objects, etc!
 
Every time I hear someone complain about how bad the times we’re living in are, I hear someone who has absolutely no historical perspective whatsoever.

Some states allow people to smoke pot? Some states allow allow gay people to get married? Oh, the horror.

Do you people realize that in the United States 200 years ago, there were millions of people forcibly enslaved?

Do you people realize that in Europe less than 100 years ago, millions of people were being exterminated across the continent?

I will not pretend that the world is perfect now, but this whiny “The end times are nigh!” attitude because you’re on the losing end of a few political issues makes you look ridiculous. Imagine living through the Black Death, or the Mongol invasions, or hell, as a Christian in Pagan Rome.

Fewer people than ever are directly affected by war. People in general live more healthy and productive lives than ever in history. More people than ever have access to education and knowledge, and more people are exposed to the Gospel than ever in history, even if many are not predisposed to accept it.
 
ngill09 said:
Fewer people than ever are directly affected by war. People in general live more healthy and productive lives than ever in history. More people than ever have access to education and knowledge, and more people are exposed to the Gospel than ever in history, even if many are not predisposed to accept it.
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👍

The doomsday thinking has been growing a little infectious on CAF for quite some time and I really hope others start to see that this is not a healthy trend.

Worst still are the tinted glasses that people wear regarding certain periods in time. Some want to go back to times when the faith thrived underground. (I guess being a Christian means you should live like your human rights don’t mean squat eh?) Others prefer later medieval periods. (Oh okay, I hope you don’t mind me seizing your land either by sword or by birthright.) Then of course there’s the typical 50s fanboy/girl who denies everything pertaining to the racism and sexism that made it look like a klansman’s paradise.
 
ngill09 said:
Every time I hear someone complain about how bad the times we’re living in are, I hear someone who has absolutely no historical perspective whatsoever.

Some states allow people to smoke pot? Some states allow allow gay people to get married? Oh, the horror.

Do you people realize that in the United States 200 years ago, there were millions of people forcibly enslaved?

Do you people realize that in Europe less than 100 years ago, millions of people were being exterminated across the continent?

I will not pretend that the world is perfect now, but this whiny “The end times are nigh!” attitude because you’re on the losing end of a few political issues makes you look ridiculous. Imagine living through the Black Death, or the Mongol invasions, or hell, as a Christian in Pagan Rome.

Fewer people than ever are directly affected by war. People in general live more healthy and productive lives than ever in history. More people than ever have access to education and knowledge, and more people are exposed to the Gospel than ever in history, even if many are not predisposed to accept it.
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Smoking marijuana is a destructive habit. Don’t pretend it isn’t or try to laugh it away.

Again, I’m not looking back. I’m saying that those who pretend they are making progress really are not.

With respect to war, far more people than ever before are affected by war, cf., feudal era. With respect to literacy, yes, that’s good but that’s not at all my complaint.

The liberal’s great problem is when individualism gets destructive to society. This, I think, is something that’s added fuel to all of our recent great opponents: the Soviet Union, current politicized Islam. I really dislike the moral pollution in our society; it’s bad for me, and it’s bad for my family, and it is bad for you.
 
Captain_America said:
Smoking marijuana is a destructive habit. Don’t pretend it isn’t or try to laugh it away.

Again, I’m not looking back. I’m saying that those who pretend they are making progress really are not.

With respect to war, far more people than ever before are affected by war, cf., feudal era. With respect to literacy, yes, that’s good but that’s not at all my complaint.

The liberal’s great problem is when individualism gets destructive to society. This, I think, is something that’s added fuel to all of our recent great opponents: the Soviet Union, current politicized Islam. I really dislike the moral pollution in our society; it’s bad for me, and it’s bad for my family, and it is bad for you.
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I do not smoke marijuana nor would I ever recommend smoking marijuana - but it is, on the wider view, an extremely minor issue. If I had to choose between being allowed to smoke marijuana and having a life expectancy of 40, I would choose being allowed to smoke marijuana.

It seems to me your complaint is that we now live in an era of never before dreamed of wealth, productivity, knowledge, and possibility, but that because it has come with people doing things you don’t personally like but which don’t really affect you, you’re living in some sort of doomsday hellscape. The world is much better than it has ever been, I contend, and therefore there has been progress made. Not by chanting mobs, I would contend, but by the general procession of invention and production.
 
Supposition: some religious people see that the world is becoming increasingly secular and would be greatly upset if that coincided with things getting better overall. Thus, the need to look at a world which is doing an okay job and hone in on the bad. Clearly this isn’t everybody, but IMO the “the world is going downhill” crowd is disproportionately religious.
 
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