Hey Im a Muslim contemplating Christianity but need a few things cleared up. Thanks.

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Matt10281986

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Hello everyone my names Matt im a 23 year old Muslim. I have been a Muslim my whole life (though not always truly practicing my faith) and have very little knowledge about Christianity and other Faiths. I would truly like to learn more about Catholicism especially.

Questions:
  1. How come there are many versions of the bible? Who altered them? Did they speak to God too? Im confused because there are so many versions how do I know which one is correct? Thanks.
  2. I have been told by Imams and Scholars at meetings and conferences etc that not a Single Word has been altered in our Holy Quran throughout 1400 years. Is this fact? I have been on Christian sites where they say this is not true though some of these sites seem a little suspect. I have been lurking here for a while and can tell that for the most part this is one of the most honest forums on the net!
 
Hello everyone my names Matt im a 23 year old Muslim. I have been a Muslim my whole life (though not always truly practicing my faith) and have very little knowledge about Christianity and other Faiths. I would truly like to learn more about Catholicism especially.

Questions:
  1. How come there are many versions of the bible? Who altered them? Did they speak to God too? Im confused because there are so many versions how do I know which one is correct? Thanks.
The goal isn’t to alter, but rather to translate the bible. I guess you can argue that a translation is an alteration, but the Church feels (as do our Protestant brothers and Sisters as well as our Eastern Brothers and Sisters) that the written word of God should be readily and easily available for all to read.

Thus typically a group of theological and linguistic scholars will meet to begin the work of carfully translating the Sacred Scriptures from the original languges (Hebrew / Aramaic / Greek) into more common tounges. This effort has been the tradition of the Church from the very beginning. For instance the Gosple of Mathew, written for Jews, was originally written in Arimaic. But as the Gentiles were added, it became obviously necesar to make it available in Greek, thus it was very quickly translated.

In the 400s AD Pope Damasus I(? I believe first) commissioned St. Jerome to translate all Sacred texts into Latin, shortly after the canon of scripture was settled. This would be the first, continuesly maintained collection of all sacred books as a single bible.
  1. I have been told by Imams and Scholars at meetings and conferences etc that not a Single Word has been altered in our Holy Quran throughout 1400 years. Is this fact? I have been on Christian sites where they say this is not true though some of these sites seem a little suspect. I have been lurking here for a while and can tell that for the most part this is one of the most honest forums on the net!
This is not a fact. In fact not only is this not true, but the Quran was originally not kept in a book form perse, rather it was rather loosely kept in a chest for many decades. Over time, parts of it went missing for various reasons (as attested by Muhammads own wife), and when it came time to bind it no one actually knew what order it went in so they just kind of put it in order of depth in the chest. This is only the beginnings of the problems with the theory that the Quran has never been altered.
 
Crazzeto is absolutely right about the translation process! I have met two men who worked on a very recent translation (the ESV), and I could tell that they took their task very seriously. This has been true of Bible translators throughout the centuries. Everyone on this Forum will have a list of favorite Bible versions, but we usually determine our favorites based on readability, literalness, or poetic quality. Also, many Christians will keep several versions of the Bible on hand, because some difficult passages are easier to read (or perhaps translated more accurately) in a version that might not be our primary Bible. However, all of the common versions are considered to be the written Word of God, which points us to the Incarnate Word of God. There’s not a definite “best” version, but all of the well-known Bibles can be trusted as accurate. 🙂
 
Matt, I would advise you to get a copy of Fr. Anthony Alexanders book, COLLEGE Apologetics. It is an easy read. Begins with the 5 proofs of GOD, and moves through an explanation of the Catholic Faith and ends with a discussion of other faiths. This is a classic and one every catholic should have and read.
 
Matt, welcome to the forums! As to the many bible translations, one must be careful when selecting a bible - especialy the newer versions. The older the translation, the better (in a general sense). The editors of some modern translations have an agenda, and have used slightly different variations in translation to make the bible support their recent ideas. An example is the NIV (New International Version), an evangelical protestant version which was produced in the 1970s. It specifically changes some of the translations to make scripture coincide with beliefs which were not held before about 1890. I cannot trust such an edition to be completely accurate, so I avoid them.

Since scripture was written to many different cultures in different lands and in different languages over thousands of years, we need to focus on the original message that God wants us to hear. God teaches us principle, rather than precision in language. Since languages were given to us by God to confuse us, we must be faithful to the principle that God teaches, since languages all have their difficulties in translation. There may be many ways of writing God’s message, but the principle behind the message must remain exactly the same. Many bible translations have appeared simply because the English language has changed so rapidly. The best translation for Catholics is the Latin Vulgate, which Saint Jerome accomplished in about the years 382-400. The only difficulty is that it is in Latin.

The importance of it is two-fold:
  1. He used the oldest existing scriptures at that time (many of them are now gone).
  2. He had no agenda in translation other than to properly translate to the best of his ability. Saint Jerome did this more than 600 years before the Eastern Church split away from the Roman Church, and more than 1,000 years before the protestant reformation, so it can be relied on as the best we have.
Here is a link to the Latin Vulgate with parallel translation of the Douay-Rheims Catholic bible, which is older even than the King James protestant bible. The original Douay-Rheims translation is considered by many to be the best English translation.

latinvulgate.com/

One important thing to remember is that God gave teaching authority to the Catholic Church, to ensure that His message is faithfully proclaimed to all nations, in all languages, for all time. The message never changes - only the words used to teach it.

Also, here is a link to a current thread in which (at least) two Muslim men are in a dialog about meanings form the Quran. Both note that the language of the Quran has changed during the past 1,400 years.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=495340

Peace be with you.
 
Thanks soo much for all of the wonderful replies and all the great information! I am going to be checking out all the links/ book you have recommended. Im sure I will have some more questions along the way. Thank you very much.
God Bless.
 
Welcome!

In addition to the forums here at CAF, please take a look at the buttons along the top of the Web page:

Encyclopedia is an outstanding resource.

Shop: the bookstore has excellent offerings. Particularly books such as Faith of the Fathers which go back to the earliest days of Christianity.

There are also the tracts, which describe individual teachings of the Church that sometimes people do not understand easily.

catholic.com/library/faith_tracts.asp

Finally, prayer is very important. You might want to consider praying the Rosary each day, in which we meditate on the life of Jesus and ask Mary, the Mother of God, to intercede for us.

theholyrosary.org/index.html
 
Hello everyone my names Matt im a 23 year old Muslim. I have been a Muslim my whole life (though not always truly practicing my faith) and have very little knowledge about Christianity and other Faiths. I would truly like to learn more about Catholicism especially.

Questions:
  1. How come there are many versions of the bible? Who altered them? Did they speak to God too? Im confused because there are so many versions how do I know which one is correct? Thanks.
  2. I have been told by Imams and Scholars at meetings and conferences etc that not a Single Word has been altered in our Holy Quran throughout 1400 years. Is this fact? I have been on Christian sites where they say this is not true though some of these sites seem a little suspect. I have been lurking here for a while and can tell that for the most part this is one of the most honest forums on the net!
I can’t comment on your second queston because I don’t know much about the authorship of the Quran.

In the case of the Bible, you need to be aware that the Old Testament is what the Jews would call the Jewish Scriptures, but in the Christian Bible the various Old Testament books have been re-arranged in categories (Pentateuch, History, Poetic books, Prophets, Psalms and Proverbs), whereas I understand the Jews had a different order. But the books are essentially the same. These were originally written in the Hebrew.

In the case of the New Testament, this comprises the Gospels which basically detail the ministry and sayings of Christ, the Acts of the Apostles which details some of the work of the early church, the Pauline letters and some other texts. Since Greek was the lingua fraca of the time, just as English is the predominant language today, they were generally written in Greek.

Somebody else has commented already on the linguistic origins and the subsequent Latin translation into the Vulgate version, since Peter and Paul went to Rome, were martyred there, and over time Rome became the head of the Western Christian Church. Being the heirs to the latin speaking Roman Empire, the official language of the church was Latin, hence the need for the Latin Vulgage version.

The Eastern Church, based in Constantinople, based it’s language on Greek, and even today the parts of Europe which were dominated by the Roman Church have a Latin based alphabet, and the parts dominated by the Eastern Church have a Greek based vocabulary. That’s why Russian letters seem similar to Greek, with a few additions and modificatons.

Since the early days, various manuscripts and parts of manuscripts have come to light which the earliest translators didn’t have. In particular the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls in 1948 had a significant impact.

The (English) King James Bible, after the Reformation took place, was a result of King James getting sick of all the arguments over the “correct interpretation”. He banged a few heads together, and had an official translation made which was then enforced as the official Bible in England. It had a poetic feel about it, being written in the time when educated Englishmen spoke like Shakespeare.

But it was still based on the original Bible texts as far as could be determined till then.

There are some quasi-Christian groups such as the Jehovah’s Witnesses which modilfy the Scriptures (to their eternal peril) to suit their preconceived prejudices. However they are not regarded as Christian in the full sense.

Of the numerous translations today, the fact is that most still say pretty much what the original texts stated. One word of caution, “The Living Bible” while a favourite of many, is in fact a commentary, and not an accurate translation. It both translates and explains at the same time. Strictly speaking, it’s not a Bible.

I’ve seen arguments myself about Bible translations, but unless you intend to become an expert in Bible studies, I’d suggest you get a modern version from a Catholic bookshop and stick to that. Or go to a Bible Society Bookshop and ask for a Catholic version of the Bible.

This may sound a bit complicated, but the Bible was written by quite a number of different author. It’s main purpose is to point to Jesus Christ. It’s a pointer, and He’s the object of the search. All through Jewish history God was working towards Christ’s coming. As He Himself said, “Do not think I have come to bring peace to the world. No, I bring a sword, From now on …” He then went on to say that men would be divided over Him, and they are. Jews don’t accept Him as Messiah, Moslems regard Him as a prophet and not the Son of God, atheists deride Him, and families are divided over Him. Mormons try to say He’s an also-ran with Joseph Smith, and even within the Christian family, there are dissensions over His teachings.

And today there appears to be an increasing stand-off between Christianity and Islam, partly fuelled by Israel’s existence, home to the Jews. So despite what seems to be the increasing secularism of the West, it seems God refuses to take a back seat.
 
Hello, Matt. I know your questions have for the most part been answered to the satisfactory, I just thought I’d give my two bits in here.
  1. How come there are many versions of the bible? Who altered them? Did they speak to God too? Im confused because there are so many versions how do I know which one is correct? Thanks.
As others have said, they’re not versions but translations. ESV, NASB, KJV, NKJV, RSV…they’re just translations given to us by different or similar groups of men. In terms of knowing which one is “correct”…well, for the most part most of them are accurate. Some should be outright avoided (like The Message or Amplified Bible) whereas others are better than others (ESV, NASB). The KJV and NKJV were based off of a smaller sampling of later manuscripts, and aren’t quite as accurate as some later English translations are.

If you’re looking for a Bible in English, it depends on what you’re looking for. If you’re looking for readability with the utmost adherence to the text, I’d go with the English Standard Version (ESV). If you’re looking for utmost accuracy, I would go with the New American Standard Bible (NASB).

On another note, I once heard the famous Muslim convert Yusuf Estes claim that there were many different “versions” of the Bible but only one Quran. That’s inconsistent. If we’re going to call different translations “versions,” then you have that for the Quran too. You have translations by Yusuf Ali, Mohammad Shakir, Mohammad Pickthal, Mohammad Asad, etc. According to the logic of men like Estes, there’s even more than one Quran!
  1. I have been told by Imams and Scholars at meetings and conferences etc that not a Single Word has been altered in our Holy Quran throughout 1400 years. Is this fact? I have been on Christian sites where they say this is not true though some of these sites seem a little suspect. I have been lurking here for a while and can tell that for the most part this is one of the most honest forums on the net!
That all depends on who you ask and how honest they’re willing to be. There were debates even among the companions of the prophet (such as Ibn Massoud) about what surahs and specific ayas actually belonged in the Quran. The fact that Uthman, early on in Islam’s history, had to gather Qurans together, burn them, and release an “official” copy shows that variants existed at the time. Scholars like Yusuf Ali admit that in the recitation of the Quran there are variants existent even today. Most Muslim apologists, both laymen and professional, like to ignore any of this exists and keep saying that the Quran has no variants in its history. That simply isn’t true, and hasn’t been proven outside of empty rhetoric. With the New Testament you can buy Greek New Testaments which grade every verse and tell you what early texts they’re found in - you don’t see anything like that with the Quran.

Since you’re taking a growing interest in Christianity and seem to have some interest in textual criticism, I’d highly suggest looking into KJV-Onlyism. It’s a heresy that says that God’s word was preserved in the King James translation of the Bible. James White wrote an excellent book called The King James Only Controversy which covers the topic (as well as the history and study of Christian manuscripts) quite well, and in a way that most laymen can understand. I think you’ll find that in many ways the KJV-Only people and Muslims share and eerily similar method of rationalization when it comes to the preservation of their holy texts. 🙂
 
Hello everyone my names Matt im a 23 year old Muslim. I have been a Muslim my whole life (though not always truly practicing my faith) and have very little knowledge about Christianity and other Faiths. I would truly like to learn more about Catholicism especially.

Questions:

2. I have been told by Imams and Scholars at meetings and conferences etc that not a Single Word has been altered in our Holy Quran throughout 1400 years. Is this fact? I have been on Christian sites where they say this is not true though some of these sites seem a little suspect. I have been lurking here for a while and can tell that for the most part this is one of the most honest forums on the net!
Do famliy and friends know you are doing this? Be very careful.

Have you never heard how Uthmann burned copies of the Quran that didn’t match up?

There is also a Yemeni Quran known as the Sana’a Quran that shows the Quran was developed over a period of time- verses changed, reworded.

Just because a writting has not changed doers’t mean it is from GOD.

Look at Homer’s Illiad it has remained unchanged. Is it also from GOD?
 
Matt I’ll re iterate Scaick’s warning. Be very careful. As your a muslim depending on how strong your familie’s faith is or anyone that knows your doing this a devout muslim or not this could go badly for you. I’m not saying you shouldn’t learn about The Way. Afterall, I am a catholic and we’re called to make disciples of all nations. Still, this could be dangerous for you. But, on the up side. The benefit of being Christian is having faith in God. It’s a hard faith to follow and dangerous even today depending on where one lives. May God Bless you and keep you safe.
 
Matt I’ll re iterate Scaick’s warning. Be very careful. As your a muslim depending on how strong your familie’s faith is or anyone that knows your doing this a devout muslim or not this could go badly for you. I’m not saying you shouldn’t learn about The Way. Afterall, I am a catholic and we’re called to make disciples of all nations. Still, this could be dangerous for you. But, on the up side. The benefit of being Christian is having faith in God. It’s a hard faith to follow and dangerous even today depending on where one lives. May God Bless you and keep you safe.
Clearly, there is caution to be taken with any such conversion out of the Muslim faith. But as Christ is calling we are compelled to answer. To the OP, take all due precaution and do not feel compelled to openly discuss your journey with fellow Muslims. But seek Christ first.
 
The word of God is a man not a book.

The pagan doctrine of scripture and scripture alone is not only idolatry but its offensive to the intellect of good will.

The scriptures where written in a dead language in a dead culture. Without a teacher that was taught the truth it is absolutely impossible to pick up the scriptures and come to the correct conclusion. You might get a thing or two correct but you will be wrong somewhere.

Here is why.

Without understanding and knowledge of the culture of the time you can not understand what is meant by any written account within the culture. once the culture and language is gone it can never again be experienced.

Without a direct line of correct oral teachings scripture will destroy you. Scripture supports truth only when correctly understood. You can only correctly understand scripture if you already know the truth.

Why is correct oral tradition supperior to correct written scripture?
As a written mesage is passed from generation to generation the culture and language slowly changes yet the writen message stays the same all the while the interpretation of the message changes with the changing culture and language. Oral tradition does not have this problem. The individual that is part of the chain of oral transmission is capable of delivering the self same message as understood in the beginning regardless of changes to the language or culture because both the student and the teacher live in the same instant of culture and speak the same dialect and therefor can comunicate an idea with a precision that is impossible within a written transmission.
 
On another note, I once heard the famous Muslim convert Yusuf Estes claim that there were many different “versions” of the Bible but only one Quran. That’s inconsistent. If we’re going to call different translations “versions,” then you have that for the Quran too. You have translations by Yusuf Ali, Mohammad Shakir, Mohammad Pickthal, Mohammad Asad, etc. According to the logic of men like Estes, there’s even more than one Quran!
Actually friend wolf…all these “translations” of the Holy Qur’an are “commentaries”…not “translations”…only the Arabic Qur’an is the “authentic” version…the various ‘translations’ are flawed and inaccurate in that they do not convey the depth of the Arabic language…the various “translations” you cite are “interpretations”…“commentary”…not true Qur’an.
 
Actually friend wolf…all these “translations” of the Holy Qur’an are “commentaries”…not “translations”…only the Arabic Qur’an is the “authentic” version…the various ‘translations’ are flawed and inaccurate in that they do not convey the depth of the Arabic language…the various “translations” you cite are “interpretations”…“commentary”…not true Qur’an.
Yusuf Ali - Sura 19:
29 But she pointed to the babe. They said: “How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?”
30 He said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah. He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet;
31 "And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live;
32 "(He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable;
Muhammad Habib Shakir- Sura 19:
29 But she pointed to him. They said: How should we speak to one who was a child in the cradle?
30 He said: Surely I am a servant of Allah; He has given me the Book and made me a prophet;
31 And He has made me blessed wherever I may be, and He has enjoined on me prayer and poor-rate so long as I live;
32 And dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me insolent, unblessed;
Muhammad Picktal - Sura 19:
29 Then she pointed to him. They said: How can we talk to one who is in the cradle, a young boy?
30 He spake: Lo! I am the slave of Allah. He hath given me the Scripture and hath appointed me a Prophet,
31 And hath made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and hath enjoined upon me prayer and almsgiving so long as I remain alive,
32 And (hath made me) dutiful toward her who bore me, and hath not made me arrogant, unblest.
**Mohsin Khan **- Sura 19:
29 Then she pointed to him. They said: "How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle? "
30 "He 'Îsa (Jesus)] said: "Verily I am a slave of Allah, He has given me the Scripture and made me a Prophet; "
31 “And He has made me blessed wheresoever I be, and has enjoined on me Salat (prayer), and Zakat, as long as I live.”
32 "And dutiful to my mother, and made me not arrogant, unblest.
Searchtruth.com - Islamic site to study the koran on line…

All of these differ on one way or another -

I must disagree with you Publisher- these are **NOT **commentaries -

**BUT **- translations.
 
Hello everyone my names Matt im a 23 year old Muslim. I have been a Muslim my whole life (though not always truly practicing my faith) and have very little knowledge about Christianity and other Faiths. I would truly like to learn more about Catholicism especially.

Questions:
  1. How come there are many versions of the bible? Who altered them? Did they speak to God too? Im confused because there are so many versions how do I know which one is correct? Thanks.
  2. I have been told by Imams and Scholars at meetings and conferences etc that not a Single Word has been altered in our Holy Quran throughout 1400 years. Is this fact? I have been on Christian sites where they say this is not true though some of these sites seem a little suspect. I have been lurking here for a while and can tell that for the most part this is one of the most honest forums on the net!
  1. Although the Bible may come in many translations, it speaks to the heart for some. There are those that read with the mind and others that can read with the heart. Those that can read with the heart are blessed with a gift greater than those that read with the mind. A person that has been given this special gift can take any spiritual book and it will speak to the heart immediately. If something is correct, they know it and if it is not correct, they also know this… As it is written in the second letter of John, “For you do not need that anyone teach you, but by the same annointing that has protected you in all things, will teach you concerning all things.”
We all should rely on church teaching and whatever the church dictates should stand, but there are other things which are seldom taught in church which are taught through the spirit which are not commonly known, but are written about by our dear monks and nuns.

If you truly want to find the truth, look to the life that was led from the founders of the Islamic faith and as well as those from the origins of the Christian faith. God is perfect and I challenge you to look for God’s perfection at the beginning of both faiths.
NearDeath
 
Searchtruth.com - Islamic site to study the koran on line…

All of these differ on one way or another -

I must disagree with you Publisher- these are **NOT **commentaries -

**BUT **- translations.
That’s ok with me…but those books I have read BY Muslims disagree with YOU…the “translations” are not true Qur’an…they are no more than “commentary” or “interpretations” as the true Qur’an is only in Arabic…as defined by Muslims…not Catholics or Orthodox.🙂

The Pickthall “translation” is titled “The Meaning of the Glorious Quran”…“interpretation”…or “commentary” on the Quran…not true Holy Qur’an as the sacred nature of the Qur’an does not allow for translation…as the revelation was given in Arabic…only Arabic presents the true Qur’an…“translations” do not.
 
That’s ok with me…but those books I have read BY Muslims disagree with YOU…the “translations” are not true Qur’an…they are no more than “commentary” or “interpretations” as the true Qur’an is only in Arabic…as defined by Muslims…not Catholics or Orthodox.🙂
Searchtruth.com is 100% islamic and muslim use this site.

It is NOT a anti-islam-koran site.

The muslims I’ve seen through out differnt islamic forums on the net use this site as their “Bible” and I’ve learned from them.

And as your statement regarding… “true koran is only in Arabic” - yes - and therefore it is **NOT **a book for **all **nations, **all **peoples, since the entire globe does **NOT **speak Arabic.

It’s like our OT & NT - it was never written in English until many centuries later on.

We have somewhat de-railed this thread with the OP.

If you wish to debate this koran issue, there is a current thread already within this sub forum regarding the islamic book vs the Bible.

**Let’s give Matt, the OP some respect and address his issues & inquiries. **
 


The Pickthall “translation” is titled “The Meaning of the Glorious Quran”…“interpretation”…or “commentary” on the Quran…not true Holy Qur’an as the sacred nature of the Qur’an does not allow for translation…as the revelation was given in Arabic…only Arabic presents the true Qur’an…“translations” do not.
I see you edited your post prior to my reply…

Did you see the Internet site I cited…

Searchtruth.com <-------------------------

Click on it -

You can read the koran on line & commentaries in many languages including Arabic & all of the Hadiths.

You can read all of the “translations” by these islamic scholars.
as the revelation was given in Arabic…only Arabic presents the true Qur’an…“translations” do not
Well then, slap my knee and play the spoons - let’s throw out our Bible -

The Hebrew Bible -OT- “Tanakh” was written in Hebrew - and it can only be understood in Hebrew

The NT was written in Greek/Aramaic - and it can only be understood in Greek/Aramaic

So, these revelations/books were given in Hebrew, Greek & Aramiac…

Only Hebrew, Greek & Aramaic presents the true Bible… “translations” do not.

And while we are at it… let’s throw away the English versions of the koran from the internet - and just display the Arabic version - Uthmans version -!!!

Great idea Jakasaki… - no one will convert to islam because the whole globe cannot read Arabic…

👍
 
Hello everyone my names Matt im a 23 year old Muslim. I have been a Muslim my whole life (though not always truly practicing my faith) and have very little knowledge about Christianity and other Faiths. I would truly like to learn more about Catholicism especially.

Questions:
  1. How come there are many versions of the bible? Who altered them? Did they speak to God too? Im confused because there are so many versions how do I know which one is correct? Thanks.
  2. I have been told by Imams and Scholars at meetings and conferences etc that not a Single Word has been altered in our Holy Quran throughout 1400 years. Is this fact? I have been on Christian sites where they say this is not true though some of these sites seem a little suspect. I have been lurking here for a while and can tell that for the most part this is one of the most honest forums on the net!
  1. They are different translations. If you, praise God, make the leap, stay away from anything with NEW in the title (the only exception is the NAB).
  2. With all due respect, if it isn’t true, wouldn’t really matter if it hasn’t been altered for 10,000 years. 😉
I have prayed for you 🙂
 
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