Hey why is it wrong for priests to marry?

[mercygate]

comfort1st:

My understanding, from a former Roman Catholic priest who addressed a conference in Australia in 1993, is that it was common for priests to be married until one Pope (I don’t remember which, but can get out the recording of the talk) decided it should be no longer.

Councils as early as the 4th century establish priestly celibacy as the norm. The custom was observed widely from apostolic times. See Christian Cochini’s book, *The Apostolic Origins of Priestly Celibacy *for an exhaustive treatment of the subject.

More to the point here: Jesus himself says in Mt. 19:11-12:

“Not all men can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to receive this, let him receive it.”

This is certainly a dominical warrant for celibacy.

One of the reasons I’ve heard for priests to remain celebate is that Christ was. Well, surpurise, surprise, there may be nothing in the Bible to say he was, but you can be fairly sure it would have been mentioned if a Jewish male of 30 in his position wasn’t married. What’s more, The Roman Catholic church claims to be founded on Peter, who was definitely married (otherwise how did Jesus cure Peter’s mother-in-law?). If it was OK for Jesus’ choice of representatives to be married why isn’t it for the church today?
Steven

Celibacy for clergy was valued from the earliest days. It was not mandatory. Over time, the spiritual as well as the practical advantages of celibacy were seen to outweigh marriage for the clergy, and the custom was adopted as the discipline of the Western Church. One might suggest in response to your proposition that Jesus was married, that the above quotation would be a contradiction of Jesus’ own way of life.

Here is a good article on priestly celibacy: catholic.com/library/Celibacy_and_the_Priesthood.asp

 

[Malachi4U]

SPOKENWORD:

Hi Jimmy,Oh really,Are you eating meat on Good Friday? No one that comes into the priesthood single is allowed to be married. God Bless

Was not Jesus single all His life? Did not Jesus fast and pray? Is not Jesus our priest? Should our clergy not seek to be Christlike?

 

[SPOKENWORD]

Malachi4U:

Was not Jesus single all His life? Did not Jesus fast and pray? Is not Jesus our priest? Should our clergy not seek to be Christlike?

Hi Malachi,Nice try, Jesus is married.We are His bride. God Bless

 

[mercygate]

comfort1st:

My understanding, from a former Roman Catholic priest who addressed a conference in Australia in 1993, is that it was common for priests to be married until one Pope (I don’t remember which, but can get out the recording of the talk) decided it should be no longer.

One hears that sort of thing but it misrepresents the case. Tertullian (b. ca 160 A.D.) comments with admiration upon the number of those in sacred orders who have embraced continence (i.e., did not sleep with their wives after they were ordained) (De exhortatione castitatis, cap. xiii). Origen contrasts the spiritual offspring of the priests of the New Law with the natural offspring begotten in wedlock by the priests of the Old (In Levit. Hom. vi, no. 6). Eusebius declares that it is befitting that priests and those occupied in the ministry should observe continence (Demonst. Evangel., I, C. ix). St. Cyril of Jerusalem urges that the minister of the altar who serves God properly holds himself aloof from women (Cat. xii, 25). St. Jerome alludes to an accepted custom in stating that clerics, “even though they may have wives, cease to be husbands”. (Catholic Encyclopedia)

So even married priests were often continent in the early Church.

Canon 33 of the Council of Elvira (295-302) provided the earliest enactment of celibacy, imposing it on Bishops, Priests and Deacons. Somebody like itsjustdave1988 will have to help me out in identifying the council (I believe in the 9th or 10th Century) which is usually pointed out as the “beginning” of clerical celibacy. In fact that council, in response to abuses, re-affirmed the already established practice.

 

[mgy100]

Don’t forget most of the Eastern Catholic Churches allow for married priests. So yes, Catholic priests can marry. Roman/Latin Rite priests can’t (unless say an Anglican priest converts to Roman Catholicism).

So to say Catholic Priests can not marry is incorrect. To say Roman Catholic single men entering the priesthood can not marry would be correct.

 

[jimmy]

SPOKENWORD:

Hi Jimmy,Oh really,Are you eating meat on Good Friday? No one that comes into the priesthood single is allowed to be married. God Bless

It is there choice to go into the preisthood. No one is being banned from marriage. If they want to be a preist they will be able to sacrife what is of the earth for God.

You don’t believe in fasting? Christianity is not a feel good religion. We are supposed to sarifice for Christ. Christ himself did not eat for 40 days straght yet you speak of fasting as if it is evil. It is an immitation of Christ to fast.

 

[_Joshua]

Priests know what they’re getting into when they get into it, or at least they should know.
Anyway we can’t change the rules, thats up to the Pope, and he was given authority from Christ.
Whatever you bind on earth, shall be bound in Heaven.

 

[Patchunky]

“Don’t forget most of the Eastern Catholic Churches allow for married priests. So yes, Catholic priests can marry”

mgy100 THIS IS NOT CORRECT!!!

The Eastern Rites ordain married men to the Diaconate and to the Holy Priesthood!

WE DO NOT LET OUR PRIESTS GET MARRIED!!!

They have to be married BEFORE ordination!

If, God forbid, they become widowed, they CANNOT REMARRY!!!

 

[Tietjen]

princejeremy_17:

whats your protest of excuse for forbidding them to marry and have a family whis was clearly expected of God?

First, we aren’t protesting anything. It is already in place and therefore no protest is needed. However, to more specifically answer your questions, those wishing to become Priests know, going into it, what is expected in their vows. They voluntarily (willingly) give up some things (sex being just one) in order to devote their time and energy to God and His Church. This is a sacrifice yes, but all Christians are called to sacrifice in some forum and to some degree. Priests, whose lives are examples to the members of the Church, voluntarily sacrifice more than most of us. From a more practical perspective, if Priests did marry and have children, it would take a great deal of time and energy away from his responsibilities to the Church and her people. Family obligations would greatly interfere with the obligations of the Church. Priests don’t just work on Sundays. They are busy 24/7 and it would not be fair to expect a married Priest to have to choose between the obligations of Church and family. Secondly, Matthew 19:12 tells us that if you can accept a life without marriage you ought to. Again, in I Cor 7:8 we see St. Paul repeating this. Again in I Cor 7:32-35 Paul addresses this subject and tells us that a married man is divided between God and wife.

So again, the Church uses the Bible as a reference and sees the logic behind Its teachings and calls for It’s Priests to remain unmarried in order that they can more fully participate in the works of God and the Church. It’s a great sacrifice and one that should be held in high regard by the members of the Church.http://www.emotipad.com/newemoticons/Hypocrit.gif

 

[Tietjen]

bloodwater:

st peter was married and he was Jesus’s own disciple.

Yes, I believe that you are correct (if memory serves me well). However, St. Peter was married BEFORE Jesus called him to be a disciple. It would have been a great tragedy for St. Peter’s wife (and possibly his children) if he were to leave them after he met Christ and became a disciple. What support would she have had? Who would have protected and looked after her (and possibly the children)? St. Peter had already taken his vows of marriage and would have broken them before God and man had he left his wife. An unmarried man has no such vows and is therefore free to take a vow of chastity.

 

[mercygate]

Tietjen:

Yes, I believe that you are correct (if memory serves me well). However, St. Peter was married BEFORE Jesus called him to be a disciple.** It would have been a great tragedy for St. Peter’s wife (and possibly his children) if he were to leave them after he met Christ and became a disciple.** That is what he did. Now, we don’t know what “left” means – It might mean that he left fishing to follow Jesus, but checked in on the wife now and again.

What support would she have had?

My personal fantasy about this is that the miraculous draft of fishes was sold and used to support the families of Peter, James and John while they were with Jesus. And remember, later they use Peter’s boat, and Jesus preaches from it. So “leaving” didn’t necessarily mean utter abandonment.

Who would have protected and looked after her (and possibly the children)?

It seems clear that the extended family was well in place and Jesus’ healing Peter’s mother-in-law might have been directed just exactly toward the protection of Peter’s wife.

St. Peter had already taken his vows of marriage and would have broken them before God and man had he left his wife. An unmarried man has no such vows and is therefore free to take a vow of chastity.

 

[SFH]

It’s not wrong for Catholic priests to marry, and many Catholic priests in the Eastern Rites are married. Some Anglican priests who rejoined the Catholic Church have also received Holy Orders and remain married to their wives.

Originally, many Catholic priests in what eventually became the Latin Rite were married (even St. Peter had a wife). Over time, celibacy became obligatory in the Latin Rite and remains so to this day.

Note that Eastern Rite Catholics as well as Orthodox Christians do not allow a celibate priest to marry after ordination except under extraordinary circumstances. This has been the rule since the first or second century A.D.

 

[Fox]

Not being married as a priest is a mostly Latin Rite Catholic discipline, it is tradition, and can be changed of the Pope sees fit.

Some priests are married because they are converts that were previously married.

A lot of the Eastern Rites (not orthodox) in Catholicism have married priests.

 

[otm]

jp2fan:

I think it all hangs on the Catholic definition of marriage. Perhaps you should look into the Theology of the Body. Marriage isn’t just a partner for life, it is a sacrament, a total gift of self. That is what a husband is to his bride, and that is what a priest is to his bride, the church. If priests were all married, they’d have two brides. This is theologically, and practically, impossible. Would you want priests who couldn’t make total gift of self to the Church because they were too preoccupied with their other family? It just wouldn’t work. Thank God the Church is smart enough to know that.

jp2fan

Well, it seems to work reasonably well for the Catholic Church. It is the Roman rite of the Catholic Church which requires its priests to be celibate; but at least some, if not all of the Eastern rites allow their priests to be married. therefore it is not theologically impossible.
furthermore, the Roman rite makes exceptions for those who were ordained in a Protestant Church, and convert and are ordained in the Roman rite of the Catholic Church; most are Episcopalian; a few are Methodists and one is Presbyterian in their background.

So the Church is smart enough to know that it not only will, but does work.

 

[sbcoral]

I think the celibacy requirement is what led to the child abuse situation, and I think it should be dropped. I do not think that celibacy itself led to child abuse, but rather that celibacy discourages men with normal sexual impulses from considering the priesthood. I knew several good and devout young men while growing up who considered entering the priesthood but whose biological impulses to mate and procreate got the better of them. I think a lot of people enter the seminary because they don’t have that normal biological drive - maybe they’re gay, or maybe they’re not mature enough to know what they are - and perhaps they think they can find an escape in a life of celibacy. Then, as priests, facing what must be a frequently lonely and even desperate life, some of those people give in to very bad impulses and end up abusing kids.

I think allowing for married men to enter the priesthood would be a great response to the child sex abuse scandal. A man with a family and children of his own is a lot easier to trust around other children than a solitary man living as a eunuch. Also, I think the Church might gain a little understanding about issues with which a large majority of practicing Catholics disagree with the hierarchy - we might get some realistic teaching about things like birth control from bishops and priests who actually know something about creating and raising and supporting families.

 

[mgy100]

yes, i knew that they had to be married before ordination, just didn’t remember to express it like that. Eastern Catholic married men can become ordained into the priesthood.

 

[MarySon]

I do not think that the requirement of celibacy is the root cause of the problem of abuse of minors that the Church experienced. One must remember that priests come from the society and if something like that happens it points to the underlying ills in the society and not in the rule of the celibacy. Interestingly most of the cases happened before 1980. There have not been too many reported recently and thanks be to God for that.
On the other hand, someone said that abolishing of celibacy would not lead to abuse of children. That is not a guarantee, becaus I read somewhere about a Rabbi who was accused of molesting children. What about all those kids that are abused in abusive marrieges? But what about adultery? Can you imagine how the Church and Priests would be portrayed then?
Actually, priests are married to the Church. Being celibate allows them to fully give their life to the Gospel and spreading the Good News. I am curious how many married members of the protestant clergy go through tough times sharing their time with families and their duties to their congregations.

 

[Tietjen]

MarySon:

I am curious how many married members of the protestant clergy go through tough times sharing their time with families and their duties to their congregations.

I have wondered this myself and turned to the net to find info on the subject. I wasn’t able to find much and I certainly would not guarantee what I did find is accurate, but here it is:

Some info I found on this subject at BARNA.ORG

• An overwhelming majority of Protestant pastors are married (94%). (2001)
• Only one out of every eight pastors (12%) have ever experienced a divorce and most pastors who have been divorced have since been remarried. (2001)
• Just 3% of all current senior pastors are divorced and have not remarried. (1998)
• On a personal level, half of all pastors (49%) reveal that their family life has suffered significantly as a result of the pressure and demands of their ministry. (1998)

As a sidenote, (sorry, not really on topic) I found this interesting as well:

Divorce rates among Christian faith groups (Not ministers but ALL members)

1. Non-denominational … 34%
2. Baptists … 29%
3. Mainline Protestants … 25%
4. Mormons … 24%
5. Catholics … 21%
6. Lutherans … 21%

info from religioustolerance.org

The current divorce rate overall in mainstream America has been reported at 50%.

 

[st_felicity]

sbcoral:

rather that celibacy discourages men with normal sexual impulses from considering the priesthood. I knew several good and devout young men while growing up who considered entering the priesthood but whose biological impulses to mate and procreate got the better of them.

You think someone who can be swayed by an impulse–any impulse–would make a good priest? What if some “hot chick” cried on your “married priest’s” shoulder in the confessional–“Oh Father…you are so understanding…not at all like my husband…you are such an understanding husband to Mrs. Priest; she is soooo lucky…if my husband could be more like you…” PLEASE! Spare me the “sexual impulse” angle–Sin is sin.

Then, as priests, facing what must be a frequently lonely and even desperate life, some of those people give in to very bad impulses and end up abusing kids.

Why primarily teenage and near-teenage boys then? Adult men who aren’t priests and who don’t have sex find teenage boys the most attractive? You’d think they’d target lonely women first wouln’t you?

Also, I think the Church might gain a little understanding about issues with which a large majority of practicing Catholics disagree with the hierarchy - we might get some realistic teaching about things like birth control from bishops and priests who actually know something about creating and raising and supporting families.

Oh…Catholicism by majority…THAT explains it. WHY IS IT ALWAYS ABOUT SEX??? Sex is an idol worshipped by sooooo many–IT’S JUST SEX!!! (so FULL of meaning in a married relationship, but NOT GOD!!!)

So birth control is the issue you can’t accept?..It is a “hard teaching…many turned from him and walked with him no longer…”

Sorry for the rant, but this is just so shallow and it drives me CRAZY when supposed “Catholics” spout it–the REAL scandal in the Church is BAD CATHOLICS!

 

[justinmatter]

sbcoral:

I think the celibacy requirement is what led to the child abuse situation, and I think it should be dropped. I do not think that celibacy itself led to child abuse, but rather that celibacy discourages men with normal sexual impulses from considering the priesthood. I knew several good and devout young men while growing up who considered entering the priesthood but whose biological impulses to mate and procreate got the better of them. I think a lot of people enter the seminary because they don’t have that normal biological drive - maybe they’re gay, or maybe they’re not mature enough to know what they are - and perhaps they think they can find an escape in a life of celibacy. Then, as priests, facing what must be a frequently lonely and even desperate life, some of those people give in to very bad impulses and end up abusing kids.

I think allowing for married men to enter the priesthood would be a great response to the child sex abuse scandal. A man with a family and children of his own is a lot easier to trust around other children than a solitary man living as a eunuch. Also, I think the Church might gain a little understanding about issues with which a large majority of practicing Catholics disagree with the hierarchy - we might get some realistic teaching about things like birth control from bishops and priests who actually know something about creating and raising and supporting families.

trying to post but can’t although logged on!!!