Hi, I am a Catholic with a Christian Science question

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Laurel:
Hi PhilVaz,

I have read the article. I see why C.S has been the subject of controversy. Thank you for your concern and for the article.

How then can one explain what I described to Shibboleth. I felt no pain, and also my mental pain has almost disappeared, along with my nightmares. I am not defending C.S, I am just asking.

Laurel
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Because you are not dealing with your pain, only separating yourself form it. Everyone does it to some extent. Not healthy, and it will come back to bite you, hard.

Get some counseling and face your past, it’s the only way to truly escape it.

God bless, and good luck.
 
laurel << How then can one explain what I described to Shibboleth. I felt no pain, and also my mental pain has almost disappeared, along with my nightmares. >>

I’m glad to hear that. As for your experiences, I don’t know. I used to listen to a lot of that on Bob Larson’s “Talk Back” radio program (Bob Larson Ministries based in Denver CO). He used to deal a lot with “multiple personality” order, or at least people who claimed to have it, and people who were abused. There are psychologists I guess on both sides of the multiple personality disorder, or some call it “dissociative disorder.”

About Trauma – Dissociative Disorders

Another article on Dissociative Disorder

I’m sorry about your experiences, I cannot relate. I can deal with the theology however. There is a good chapter in Walter Martin’s Kingdom of the Cults mentioned above. Here is that book, along with some Martin talks (requires Real Player).

see the talks on Christian Science

Some (Catholics and Protestants) don’t like Walter Martin because of his supposedly too aggressive approach, and/or some of his theological positions. For example, he called Jesus the “Word of God” rather than the “eternal Son.” But on dissecting the teachings of the pseudo-Christian cults, I think he’s just fine.

Phil P
 
Hi PhilVaz, 👋

I know that I do not have any alters, so no multiple personality. But I suppose I could have been dissociating. I looked them up and I don’t think they are synonomous. I am listening to your links as I write this, and I will write more later. Thank you for your time friend.:hmmm:

Laurel
 
laurel << I am listening to your links as I write this, and I will write more later. Thank you for your time friend. >>

No problem, just ignore me if I ever come on too strong. 😃 We don’t get too many dabblers in Christian Science in here that I noticed so welcome. My current obsession is trying to solve the whole creation-evolution issue. :eek:

So I am all for Catholic Science, just not Christian Science. 👍

Phil P
 
Friends,

Thanks again, I really do appreciate all of your time. I just want to feel normal again and I need some peace in my life. I don’t want to hurt anymore. I want to be a good person and I want to serve God in every way possible. I want to be organized and confident and to be a good mom and wife and friend. I don’t want to cry all of the time and make others feel sad too. And most of all I don’t want a drug to “fix” all of that for me!
:blessyou:
 
Dear Laurel,

I know of a very good Catholic ministry where you live. Its called Couples for Christ.
Dhgray knows more than I do, tho…so it would be best to pm him…
 
Hi Meggie, 👋

Thanks for your response. I have a question. What services does a Catholic ministry offer that might help with my situation, and why did you refer me to one for couples?.
:hmmm:
I have my own issues to work out. I would think I should do that before I consider bringing my husband into something like that. Please elaborate on this for me.

Thank you for your time friend!

🙂
 
Hi Laurel,
I was baptized Catholic but was raised as a Christian Scientist, because my maternal grandmother was CS. If you want more info about CS please pm me. I understand your feelings about Mary Baker Eddy–she was a remarkable woman, especially for her time. She has a powerful message of the healing power of Christ–but I believe we Catholics can find this same message ourselves in the Gospels. Anyway, please pm me if you would like to correspond, as right now I have to sign off and go somewhere! Many blessings to you!

P.S. I have read the entire Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures by Mary Baker Eddy, and understand it as well as can be–this may help in any correspondence we have, even though I have been a practicing Catholic now for many years. God bless!
 
Thank you, 👋

I did PM you, and I hope anyone elese that sees this and knows C.S will respond.

:yup: :whistle:
 
in reading the psychology of spiritual development by Fr. Groeschel I found a good answer to your original question, can a Catholic believe in or benefit from the teachings of Christian Science, as preached by Mary Baker Eddy. He makes the point that in denying the reality of physical suffering, CS denies the reality of Christ’s passion and death, and therefore the resurrection, and in fact denies the incarnation, that Jesus, son of God took on a human nature including body that experiences pain and death. So it would seem that CS ideas are incompatible with Catholic faith. I wonder of some of the appeal in CS with regards to health and healing could not be better served in investigating wholistic health and therapy approaches.

I feel for you Laurel especially in considering that your CS counsellors require you to deny the reality of what you suffered, and this still seems cruel to me, and in the long run harmful rather than helpful. you know you have all of us here praying for you and hoping you find your way through all this.
 
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Laurel:
Hi puzzleannie,

I am sensitive to those in pain. As I said I am a survivor of childhood sxual ause, and was rpd and aused in adluthood also. It is not my understanding that the experience is not real, it is the pain that is felt that is not real. I think what C.S says is reflected the quote I used…When a sufferer is convinced that there is no realityin his belief of pain,–because matter has no sensation,hence pain in matter is a false belief,–how can he sufferlonger?..
There is no denying that matter exists, it is just that it’s sensations such as pain are unreal. It is that principle that allows me to free myself from the “mental anguish” I have suffered with for so long.

Sincerely, Laurel
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Laurel,

like the others I want to caution you against Christian Science. I think that you need to do some more in the way of Google Search and discover the truth about them. What they teach is not the truth, and in the long run their teachings will not help you to heal from the abuse that you have suffered.

I am also speaking from past experience. I have not dabbled in the teachings of the likes of the Christian Science, but in overcoming the memories of what happened I have been guided by priests and also by a psychologist.

The key to healing is through the Scripture, and it is also through forgiveness towards those who have hurt you through abuse. That is the really hard part because when one is hurt so much the heart hardens and forgiveness is not an easy matter. During my time of healing I was asked if I had ever prayed for a woman who had caused quite a lot of hurt. It is true I had not prayed for that woman, and then during the following week, there I was in the daily Mass, and I offered up a prayer for the woman, then I was touched by God’s healing grace, having been filled with “Joy” to the point I was in tears from the experience.

There is a 12 step program, which is called either RECOVERY or GROW, depending upon location, that might be of help to you. The one thing that you need to recognize is that your feelings of hurt are a maladjustment because those feelings have been like a feeding frenzy within. Even if you can find something on line that is a 12 step program it would be better than reading any more of the Christian Science material.

It is important to recognize that priests do not necessarily know how to deal with issues relating to that kind of abuse. It is difficult for them to be able to offer consolation, let alone advice and help to get over the pain. I was fortunate in that I found a priest who also has a degree in psychology and he has guided me for a few years.

What I would also suggest is that you take a good look at the healing Gospel of St. Luke and let that Gospel message talk to you, because within the Gospel of Luke is the key to mental health.

MaggieOH
 
MaggieOH, 👋

I have read your post to me and I have been doing the readings you suggested. I have also been trying to think of what I was going to say to you regarding the topic. The readings you suggested helped. Thank you. The only way that I can explain why what I have gotten from C.S makes sense is this…It is not denial because it is not denying the act itself, just the reality of it in so far as it did not happen to my true self because my true self is not my body, it is my soul and no human can touch that or damage it. So when they say that these things are not real, they are speaking in that context. The fact that we should not acknowledge the pain the body suffers does not mean try to imagine that the injuries on the body did not happen, rather that they did not happen to the real person, the soul. Mary Baker Eddy does acknowledge the need for a surgoen or the need to have a broken bone set. She even had a tooth pulled with anesthesia once, or so I am told. She acknowledges that the reason why drugs like that work is because we believe they do. A hard thing to understand, but considering the success that doctors have had with placebo tests…poeple getting pain relief from a sugar pill… it makes me ask why couldn’t I just accept that nothing was done to me, just my body and therefore I don’t have to feel as though anything was taken from me. Even the Catholic Church says that if a person is a victim of rape or incest and was a virgin at the time, they are still a virgin. that makes no physical sense, but the church sees that the persons soul, which is the real person is untouched because the body and the mind were unwilling. Do you see what I mean?
 
While I am not yet a Catholic I do know somethings about abuse. I also disassociated myself from some serious beatings I took at the hand of my bother and emotional abuse from my parents. I lived with such pain for so long. I never felt part of anything and always felt alone even in a room full of people. I sought “God” through various religions (never attending churches) just reading books. All religions sound good. I also at the time was self medicating with drugs and alcohol. I am 45 yrs old now and go to therapy, which has helped me realize why I felt the way I did, I am also being treated for Bi-Polar illness. I don’t know for sure if the illness is a effect of what happened to me while growing up but it is real. I have also found a great medical doctor. I feel Christ has lead me to them. I used to anti-Catholic, but Christ has lead me to his Church. I am in RCIA now and hope to be baptised at Easter. I just want you to know that there are people here that want to help, also I understand how you feel about other religions. Only time will tell. Speaking from personal experiance the euphoria will wear off and reality will hit and hit hard. This is the first time that when the euphoria wore off I was prepared for it. Christ said it wouldn’t be easy. I will pray for you as I am sure all here will.

God bless and keep you
 
Mike,

Thank you for your response. It is not a euphoria I am feeling. It is finally letting go of the idea that I am somehow damaged or defective. I have been to a therapist. I was diagnosed ADD… so I have a little trouble concentrating, being organized etc. However, I can be happy in the thought that God will take care of all that I need and that the real me was unharmed. The real me that will hopefully go to heaven someday. I know what happened to my body. I will not deny that, but my mind went elesewhere at the time and I felt no pain or fear. I just left. The real me was elesewhere, perhaps with a guardian angel. I don’t know. What I do know is that I am not in denial…I have a B.A with a psychology minor, so I am not some stupid confused little girl. I know the symptoms of denial…I have a DSM4R manual…I have a base of knowledge to draw upon. I also know that I don’t need drugs or to have anyone feel sorry for me or save me anymore. I know that I am ok and I allways will be because God protected me then, and he always will as long as I let him into my life…as long as I ask him for his help and love him as much as I can. If you call that unhealthy…I don’t know what to tell you except that it is not…that the only saving I need I got and it was form God.
 
Mike,

One additional thought…when you say you dissociated…doesn’t that mean that you separated your real spiritual self form your body?. After all, we are only using these bodies while we are here, as temples to God and to carry on the human race?. Why do people view dissosiation as abnormal…it makes perfect sense to me.
 
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Laurel:
Mike,

One additional thought…when you say you dissociated…doesn’t that mean that you separated your real spiritual self form your body?. After all, we are only using these bodies while we are here, as temples to God and to carry on the human race?. Why do people view dissosiation as abnormal…it makes perfect sense to me.
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Yes that is what I meant by disassociation. I have always viewed bodies as a shell of the spirit. I hope I didn’t offend you, that is what I dislike about communication this way. What is written is so open to wrong interpretation. I didn’t mean to imply that you aren’t educated and haven’t tried different forms of help. I just wanted to let you know you are not alone. I pray daily that God will play a part in my life. What you have written about the real you not being hurt is a great way of looking at it. I am glad you don’t need drugs or anything, I don’t wish that on anyone. I eat pills for breakfast. If this is what God has intended for me so be it. Again sorry if I wrote something to offend.:o
 
Hi Laurel,

I dissociated a great deal in my childhood, due to repeated sexual, physical and emotional traumas. Dissociation does make sense to the person dissociating, but it causes longterm damage to one’s mental well-being and can actually cause amnesia, as it did in my case. There were details of the abuse done to me that I didn’t remember for 35 years, because of the dissociation. The body always remembers what has been done to it; the mind can dissociate from it so as not to experience the trauma at the time it is taking place.

There are some excellent books on this topic. The best help I have found is in Judith Hermann’s *Trauma and Recovery. *I have read it cover to cover twice and the information she provides helped me to understand myself and what I have been through immensely. Also, many of Alice Miller’s books are excellent–she deals extensively with this topic, too. And then there’s the huge workbook entitled Courage to Heal about childhood sexual abuse. It was integral to my recovery and helped me to realize why it is so important to work through every aspect of the abuse and its effects. I recommend it highly.

Also, it is important to note that many people who become involved in CS, especially women, have been abused in some way. I believe this is so because in CS one is required to “rise above it,” but unfortunately most abuse survivors cannot rise above anything until they deal with their abuse directly and not relegate it to elsewhere. Consequently many of these survivors feel like failures in CS. I agree with Puzzleannie, in that this can be very hurtful and damaging to abuse survivors; it becomes another form of abuse of the survivor. It is not inconsequential that many abuse survivors end up being reabused in many different ways in our lives: it is simply *familiar. *Unfortunately, familiarity can be mistaken for *safety. *Many of us abuse survivors have to relearn everything in order to actually be fully safe…

Anyway, Laurel, these ar important issues you are investigating, and may you find the peace and the love of Christ all through your process! Many blessings,

Geraldine
 
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Mike_Olson:
Yes that is what I meant by disassociation. I have always viewed bodies as a shell of the spirit. I hope I didn’t offend you, that is what I dislike about communication this way. What is written is so open to wrong interpretation. I didn’t mean to imply that you aren’t educated and haven’t tried different forms of help. I just wanted to let you know you are not alone. I pray daily that God will play a part in my life. What you have written about the real you not being hurt is a great way of looking at it. I am glad you don’t need drugs or anything, I don’t wish that on anyone. I eat pills for breakfast. If this is what God has intended for me so be it. Again sorry if I wrote something to offend.:o
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MIke,

No, you did not offend me…I just didn’t want you to feel sorry for me, that is not what I was looking for. I am glad you wrote back to me though. Validation is important to me…thanks! 🙂
 
Hi NR, 👋

I see that you have pretty much the same story I do. I, unfortunately have carried all the memories of what happened to me since it happened. 😦 I never dissociated so much that I didn’t see what was happening…I remember it all. All I am saying is that it didn’t happen to the real me…the spiritual me. :angel1: I know I need to learn many things like how to fully trust people and how to be more a parent and less a friend and toughest of all how to forgive my brother for making me need to re-learn all of this stuff. :banghead: I just wish that you could understand why knowing that no one can really hurt me…my soul…makes me stronger and more equipped to do the things that I need to do to be productive in society and in my family. I will find that book that you spoke of though…I am open to new things, thanks! ❤️
:blessyou:
 
Fr. Serpa sent me this, and gave his permission to use it to better explain what I am trying to say. This is the only thing I mean by the statements that the real me was not being harmed,
and that my faith is helping me heal.

During the religious persucution in Mexico in the last century a young man who was wearing a religous medal on a chain around his neck was caught by the police. They ripped the chain from his neck. He immediately made the sign of the cross and said, “Take THAT away from me!”

His faith was stronger that their might. They couldn’t touch it. Throughout the Gospels our Lord keeps telling people that it is their faith that is healing them.
 
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