Hi I'm Atheist

[chemcatholic]

dredgtone:

Is God non-contingent? Why does he get to break the law of physics yet the notion of something coming from nothing alone is unfathomable? This is where the argument becomes circular, because God has no beginning and no end because the Bible says so. Tis a discussion for another day though.

Which law of physics are you referring to specifically? To break the laws of physics, you cannot be bound by those laws. I am bound by the laws of physics - I cannot go outside and jump over a building (unless it’s a really small doghouse ). If there is no God and the entire universe is bound by the laws of physics, how would it be possible to break those laws? God, who is not bound by the laws of physics as we know them, can break those laws.

Please explain to me how something coming from nothing doesn’t break the laws of physics, ie the Law of Conservation of Matter.

Peace

 

[dredgtone]

squirt:

I wasn’t turning your words around, just asking if you found your worldview to be totally coherent. Mine isn’t.

Aristotle posited a non-contingent first cause, and he had never seen a Bible.

I’ll get you a quote on faith from Catholic teachings in a few minutes … unless I fall asleep first.

Nah squirt i meant it as more of a compliment that you turned my contingency logic against me but i agree that this is where i’m not all that coherent.

But i am a skeptic at heart. I do not like interpret, it is what it is. That’s why i do not like Aristotle’s unmoved mover argument. I could give a more full refutation of it if you’d like but that’s a bit of another topic.

Anyways it’d be my very own folly to think my world-view is coherent. But i believe it to be satisfactory to my standards, hehe.

 

[squirt]

Here you go … g’night

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s1c3a1.htm#III

 

[hawkeye]

dredgtone:

Beats me. Who says i needed to be anywhere? You are implying the existance of a soul, which I do not believe in. However if you want to get technical, my potentiality existed in electricity that was probably scattered around the planet somewhere.

So only after one question your beat :banghead:

 

[squirt]

dredgtone:

Nah squirt i meant it as more of a compliment that you turned my contingency logic against me but i agree that this is where i’m not all that coherent.

I didn’t take it as an insult, eh. I was an atheist for decades. Starting from before I was in grade 6. I have a bit of a feel for where you’re coming from.

Take care.

 

[jjanderson]

Dredgtone, you have contradicted yourself when you say you were an atheist before you could justify your beliefs. Atheism is a belief. It seems you’ve justified your beliefs in retrospect. Your deciding you are an atheist is a choice just as deciding you believe is a choice. You don’t have to decide. Putting aside your pride during one session of adoration and expecting a sign is not how God works. Putting aside your pride every minute of every day is necessary and may be what God requires for some of us. It’s called carrying our cross. For some of us God deems it necessary to put us in deserts and “dark nights of the soul” and “insane emotions not indicative of God.” But if we are silent, and patient, he will raise us up in His time. Pray, and God will decide for you. You don’t have to worry about this. Besides if you pray, and there is no God, what do you have to lose?

 

[dredgtone]

retina_md:

Dredgstone I’m confused why someone so convinced that there is no God would spend so much time on a Catholic forum. What’s up?

I just love philosophical argument and I’m especially intruiged by religion and the psychological aspects of it. And i haven’t spent “so much time”, it’s my first day on here =)…

Plus since this is a Catholic forum, why not throw in a bit of a different perspective? That certainly could do no harm.

Trying to follow your logic is beyond me. It gives me one more reason to thank God for my faith. It seems to me that you are using your logic to run so fast that God can’t catch you.

Hey I’m only using the logic that you would argue God gave me to its fullest potential. haha

I refuse to just simply “have faith” without quesiton. And quesiton has led to lack of faith. Is that so wrong?

 

[retina_md]

dredgtone:

I just love philosophical argument and I’m especially intruiged by religion and the psychological aspects of it. And i haven’t spent “so much time”, it’s my first day on here =)…

Oh, well have a great night!

 

[dredgtone]

hawkeye:

So only after one question your beat :banghead:

Lol no more like refuting the actual terms on which your argument is based. I can’t argue with you if i don’t even believe in your parameters in the first place. Your argument is interpretive, “where we you before?”. I don’t interpret, i say “who says I needed to be somewhere?”

nueroscience and other parts of psychology would suggest that Cartesian Dualism is nothing but a crock. Cartesian Dualism was tore apart. Therefore, my mind didn’t have to be anywhere before i was born, and my soul certainly did not either.

 

[chemcatholic]

dredgtone:

I refuse to just simply “have faith” without quesiton. And quesiton has led to lack of faith. Is that so wrong?

That depends on whether you actively search for the answers to your questions.

Besides, I don’t think most people on this forum would advocate faith without question.

Peace

 

[hawkeye]

dredgtone:

Lol no more like refuting the actual terms on which your argument is based. I can’t argue with you if i don’t even believe in your parameters in the first place. Your argument is interpretive, “where we you before?”. I don’t interpret, i say “who says I needed to be somewhere?”

nueroscience and other parts of psychology would suggest that Cartesian Dualism is nothing but a crock. Cartesian Dualism was tore apart. Therefore, my mind didn’t have to be anywhere before i was born, and my soul certainly did not either.

I don’t have an argument with you, all I’m saying is you are here in this world, did you ask to be born ? I think not, can you stop yourself from dying ?

 

[dredgtone]

chemcatholic:

Which law of physics are you referring to specifically? To break the laws of physics, you cannot be bound by those laws. I am bound by the laws of physics - I cannot go outside and jump over a building (unless it’s a really small doghouse ). If there is no God and the entire universe is bound by the laws of physics, how would it be possible to break those laws? God, who is not bound by the laws of physics as we know them, can break those laws.

Please explain to me how something coming from nothing doesn’t break the laws of physics, ie the Law of Conservation of Matter.

Peace

Hmm i’m not sure anybody could explain what you are asking yet alone ME, lol… But let me say this first off, what’s so wrong with saying “i don’t know?”.

So to answer your question, I don’t know. I will say this, they say the big bang was the event that set the parameters of physics as we know them. Therefore, before the existance of time, it’s subject to the same exact “physics” as God was subject to. But I’m stupid, i don’t know. All i know is that God is no explaination for me.

Besides, something MAY come from nothing but only under the existance of multiple universes. It’s complicated as hell to explain but it has been explained by much smarter minds than me. Furthermore, the existance of a set percentage of dark energy in the universe has been quite convincing as to suggest multiple universes as of very very recently. So maaaaybe…

 

[dredgtone]

jjanderson:

Dredgtone, you have contradicted yourself when you say you were an atheist before you could justify your beliefs. Atheism is a belief. It seems you’ve justified your beliefs in retrospect. Your deciding you are an atheist is a choice just as deciding you believe is a choice. You don’t have to decide. Putting aside your pride during one session of adoration and expecting a sign is not how God works. Putting aside your pride every minute of every day is necessary and may be what God requires for some of us. It’s called carrying our cross. For some of us God deems it necessary to put us in deserts and “dark nights of the soul” and “insane emotions not indicative of God.” But if we are silent, and patient, he will raise us up in His time. Pray, and God will decide for you. You don’t have to worry about this. Besides if you pray, and there is no God, what do you have to lose?

Yes atheism is a belief. But all belief is based on intuition. I feel i am right, you feel you are right. Key word “feel”. Because when it comes down to it, we all use our intuition as a guide for belief. That being said, i felt God did not exist based on intuition (an emotion). I was able to justify this emotion immediately after with words.

I didn’t decide i was an atheist. I knew i was an atheist. I have no impetus to believe in God. I have no emotional nor logical impetus to believe in God so why would i want to pray? The notion of God is unfathomable to me.

 

[dredgtone]

chemcatholic:

That depends on whether you actively search for the answers to your questions.

Besides, I don’t think most people on this forum would advocate faith without question.

Peace

I actively search for answers to my questions, but some questions do not have answers…

 

[hawkeye]

Baloney, is Love physcial at first, no !!! Love comes from the heart.

The big bang :yawn: even if there was a big bang, who caused it ?
A number of months ago I happened to look at a science programme, from the US and one of the scientists said" I don’t understand this, but before this world was formed, there was nothing"

 

[BrianDay]

dredgtone:

I just love philosophical argument and I’m especially intruiged by religion and the psychological aspects of it.
…
I refuse to just simply “have faith” without quesiton. And quesiton has led to lack of faith. Is that so wrong?

Greetings dredgtone,

Sorry, no yelling and ranting here. I have a brother who is an aethist and his “style” is very similar to what you are writing. I am convinced that my brother doesn’t want answer(s) to his questions, because for every answer he comes up with two more questions. He is “addicted” to the dialogue and is unwilling to concede anything lest the dialogue stop.

I do not know if it is the same with you, but your writings so far make be believe so. So please forgive me for not coming out to play.

 

[Christian5]

Your right, some questions do not have answers, at least for humans. Some things are better left unsaid as well. Yet “choosing” to believe in Christ is actualy much more than a simple “choice.”

Check out what the Catholic church teaches in their Cathecism on Faith from the Bible and early church history. To become a believer is much more than a “choice,” God plays a magor role in it.

God bless!

 

[dredgtone]

your deciding you are an atheist is a choice just as deciding you believe is a choice.

Do we truly choose what we believe in? Most people cannot grasp this concept but its not that hard. What we believe in is merely a result of our life experience and life perception. Therefore you were most likely already predispositioned to believe what you think you “chose” to believe. I did not CHOOSE to be an atheist, it simply happened as a result of my life experience. I CHOOSE to question my beliefs and my continuance of beliefs is not my choice but simply an occourance based on logic.

 

[dredgtone]

BrianDay:

Greetings dredgtone,

Sorry, no yelling and ranting here. I have a brother who is an aethist and his “style” is very similar to what you are writing. I am convinced that my brother doesn’t want answer(s) to his questions, because for every answer he comes up with two more questions. He is “addicted” to the dialogue and is unwilling to concede anything lest the dialogue stop.

I do not know if it is the same with you, but your writings so far make be believe so. So please forgive me for not coming out to play.

Hmm, i’d suggest that you don’t speculate as to his underlying motives because us atheists are really just skeptics at heart. We’re predispositioned skeptics, but we believe in plenty of things. I simply know the difference between believing in what is founded and believing in what is speculated.

Your brother WANTS answers to his questions, he is just wise enough to know that there AREN"T answers to his questions. He sees God as being improbable and therefore God isn’t an answer for him.

 

[ralphinal]

dredgtone:

Because choosing is standing at circuit city trying to decide which widescreen to take home. Choice is deciding between maple or cream donuts.

Faith is what falls upon people who are predispositioned to believe, or it falls upon people who chose to question their beliefs, but a choice would imply a delivery of faith overnight. That does not happen.

Even if someone converted overnight because some “miracle” inspired sudden belief, that would not be choice. It would simply be a state of belief as inspired by extraordinary events, and the illusion would be that it was chosen.

You must understand that every belief has a cause and therefore, the choice is really just an illusion of what fell upon you as a result of your background. I’m getting into a bit of determinism here, but lets just say your religious belief is a bit more complex than choosing maple over crumb donuts.

If you maintain belief, you choose to maintain that belief, you don’t choose to believe because you already do.

Once, I decided to buy a car (a choice). I did not have enough money for a down payment and my credit and income would not allow me to buy it without the money down. So, I saved and worked in order to buy the car I wanted. Many times I could have changed models or makes, but none of them seemed right, so I was always reaffirming my choice. Before I could buy it, the model had changed and the car was not the same. I had to think if this is really what I wanted. I looked to see if the important parts of my decision were still there. In the end, I bought the new car (another choice). Was my choice a one time thing or an ongoing process or both?