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Tomdstone
Guest
I know. That is why I fail to understand the pro-death people who claim they want to make abortion safe and legal.
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Lily_Bernans
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Lily_Bernans
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“In spite of Lily?” Leave me out of your abortion posts unless you are replying to me. And I did not conduct the study that showed that the vast majority of women who choose abortion are not coerced in any way.
The vast majority of women are not coerced, and I posted an non-political study to show that. They simply make the decision to kill their unborn child.
You’re right: rape is illegal, and it still happens; theft is illegal, and it still happens; fraud is illegal, and it still happens; etc. Making something illegal doesn’t eliminate it. Abortion was illegal fifty years ago; and women still had abortions or chose to self-abort the fetus. You know what happens in this country to people who commit illegal acts? They are punished. Most women who contract with a doctor for an illegal abortion should be punished right along with the doctor. Would abortionists have any clients at all if women didn’t make the decision to kill the fetus? No. Would women still have abortions if abortion were illegal? Yes. It’s not a giant leap to come to the realization that should abortion become illegal the women who contract with the abortionist to kill their would-be child are just as guilty as the doctor is. More so.
Society coercing “softly” is why almost all crimes are committed. Can’t buy what you want? Steal it, or steal the money for it. Having a dispute with your neighbor? Vandalize his property some night because he’ll never be able to prove it’s you. Can you cheat the IRS to get a bigger tax refund? Do it. The list goes on and on. Society coerces everyone “softly” all day, every day.
I don’t understand why anti-abortion people can’t realize that making abortion illegal isn’t the answer. People would just be flocking to Canada, where abortions are legal, safe, and relatively cheap. Or they would self-abort. I can’t understand why you don’t see that going down another path would probably be more profitable in eradicating abortion. By following a path that hasn’t worked for nearly fifty years, I’m not pointing a finger at you or anyone in particular; I’m speaking in generalities, but it seems the anti-abortion group just wants to blame pro-choice people more than they want to actually eradicate abortion. When Thomas Edison found a particular experiment he was trying did not “invent” the light bulb, he didn’t keep trying the way that didn’t work. He tried something different. Try something different.
Again, I don’t mean “you,” or anyone in particular, just in general. Only my first paragraph was addressed to you. The rest is just “in general.”
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estesbob
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So we should have no laws that people will break? 1.2 million children a year killed . Over half of them women. About a third of them African-American. And Hillary Clinton and the Democrat Party are supposedly concerned about minorities and women?
The culture of death has gotten so bad that Hillary Clinton was attacked for referring to an unborn child as an unborn person . Her slip of the tongue momentarily lifted the pro-abortion veil and revealed what we’re already talking about - killing children . The idea that somehow we can rationalize this away because those who support it are for higher taxes on the rich , bigger government, more government regulation or any other number of the issues on the liberal WishList is absolutely specious . This country should hang its head in shame for the daily carnage we allow to happen .
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Lily_Bernans
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And more than a fourth of the women who abort each year are Catholic.
Why keep trying something that has proven totally ineffective? People found out that even during prohibition, people still drank, and in record numbers, too. It’s illegal to possess certain drugs in most states, but people still sell and use them. In some cases, laws are ineffective. Women who want abortions are going to have them, no matter if they are legal or illegal. Some will kill themselves trying to rid themselves of a fetus they do not want.
When we make something illegal, those who break the law, i.e. the would-be mothers, are punished, like all law-breakers.
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DoGodsBidding
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Exactly. Well said, Bob.
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mary_bobo
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Lily_Bernans
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Please do not insert words I did not write into a quote, supposedly from me.
I said a fourth of the women who abort are Catholic, meaning they won’t even obey their own God, let alone the secular law.
I said nothing about them being Republican or Democrat. I would assume Republican since most Catholics are, but to me, abortion isn’t a political issue. I don’t care what political party they belong to, if any.
I also said nothing about abortion being right or wrong. I simply said making it illegal will not stop women from having one just as prohibition did not stop anyone from drinking if they wanted to drink.
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_Abyssinia
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Hillary Clinton Roundly Criticized for Referring to the Unborn as a ‘Person’
nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/04/04/hillary-clinton-roundly-criticized-for-referring-to-the-unborn-as-a-person/
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Crossbones
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If a woman seeking or obtaining an abortion is not punished, she’s not breaking the law.
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Ridgerunner
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Trump doesn’t claim he’s doing charity when he employs his children. Clinton does.
Your own article talked about most of the money going to other Clinton entities. I don’t think it named but one. I’m sure the ultimate destinations of Clinton Foundation (there is more than one) money is exceedingly difficult to track. If the pro-Clinton article writer couldn’t do it, there’s no reason to expect me to do it.
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Ridgerunner
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Remarkable but not terribly surprising that liberals want to punish women for getting abortions, by and large, while most conservatives don’t.
But then, if killing unborn children is acceptable to some, then why wouldn’t punishing women be acceptable as well?
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TMC
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If abortion is murder why don’t you want the murderers punished? This position makes no sense to me. You say there is no “sentiment” for punishing women who get abortions, but there is also no “sentiment” for outlawing abortion. Why does public sentiment control the first but not the second?
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Ridgerunner
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Actually “public sentiment” does not favor abortion on demand. Only the Dem party keeps it in place.
Regardless of why Americans never punished women who got illegal abortions, that’s probably not in the cards if abortion on demand is abrogated, unless, of course the Dem party has its way. It would probably be part of the “the worse the better” strategy of Lenin and Obama’s mentor, Alinsky…make life unbearable so people can be steered to the party’s “remedy”, which will be abortion on demand again.
Mary_Gail_36
New member
I would like to ad that the precedence for punishing women who had abortions is found primarily in totalitarian governments. Communist Romania, for example, charted women’s cycles to monitor possible pregnancies . It wasn’t because ceaucesceu was prolife. He wanted to increase Romanian population to make a “glorious Romania”.
I’ve read reports that North Korea is considering similar laws.
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zz912
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And? It’s not surprising that most Catholics don’t practice the faith, the left inside the Church worked hard to demolish the faith and they were successful.
Exactly, so let’s try something different and make abortion illegal. We’ve tried keeping it legal for the last 40 years and the results are horrendous.
Do you also argue to repeal laws against murder, rape, assault and theft? If not, you’re a hypocrite.
Actually abortions skyrocketed once abortion was made legal. There is a strong argument that the number of abortions would plummet if made illegal again.
Those of us who are prolife are more compassionate towards the mothers. We wish to punish the abortion providers and not attack the women who are under duress.
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Lily_Bernans
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Actually, a slight majority do favor abortion, but not under any circumstance:
gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx
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Lily_Bernans
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No, Clinton doesn’t consider it “charity” to employ her daughter.
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Lily_Bernans
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Abortion was illegal. Women had them anyway. It appears women are going to have abortions whether they are legal or not.
It’s true that abortions skyrocketed once it was made legal, but they have been declining:
“While the number of abortions skyrocketed when abortion was legalized in 1973, peaking at 1.6 million in 1990, fortunately the annual totals have since steadily declined. Today, that death toll is believed to be in the neighborhood of 1.3 million. All told, NRLC projects that there have been over 43 million unborn babies that have lost their lives since the U.S. Supreme Court made Roe v. Wade (and its companion case Doe v. Bolton) the law of the land.” A Republican Supreme Court, too.
I don’t want to repeal laws against rape, assault, theft, and other crimes. If abortion is made illegal, I want the perpetrators of it - the doctors and the women who hired them to kill - punished just like rapists and thieves should be.
Statistics show the vast majority, more than 99.9%, of women who pay to have their child killed are not under any kind of duress at all.
There is no reason to believe this would not return; actually there are many valid reasons to believe it would return:
“Estimates of the number of illegal abortions in the 1950s and 1960s ranged from 200,000 to 1.2 million per year. One analysis, extrapolating from data from North Carolina, concluded that an estimated 829,000 illegal or self-induced abortions occurred in 1967.”
And many women would go to Canada, to have a safe, legal, and relatively inexpensive abortion.
guttmacher.org/about/gpr/2003/03/lessons-roe-will-past-be-prologue
Abortion has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with people who refuse to see the culpability of the women who procure them. Women who procure abortions today should not be punished. Abortion is legal today and not a crime.
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stinkcat_14
Guest
Why should a murderer not be punished?
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