Hillary Clinton Thread

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Trump doesn’t claim he’s doing charity when he employs his children. Clinton does.

Your own article talked about most of the money going to other Clinton entities. I don’t think it named but one. I’m sure the ultimate destinations of Clinton Foundation (there is more than one) money is exceedingly difficult to track. If the pro-Clinton article writer couldn’t do it, there’s no reason to expect me to do it.
Not to mention the Clintons failed to disclose the foreign sources of donation, which amounted to hundreds of thousands of dollars, while Hillary was SOS.

washingtonpost.com/politics/foreign-governments-gave-millions-to-foundation-while-clinton-was-at-state-dept/2015/02/25/31937c1e-bc3f-11e4-8668-4e7ba8439ca6_story.html

And then there’s this:

nypost.com/2015/04/26/charity-watchdog-clinton-foundation-a-slush-fund/
The Clinton family’s mega-charity took in more than $140 million in grants and pledges in 2013 but spent just $9 million on direct aid.
The group spent the bulk of its windfall on administration, travel, and salaries and bonuses, with the fattest payouts going to family friends.
On its 2013 tax forms, the most recent available, the foundation claimed it spent $30 million on payroll and employee benefits; $8.7 million in rent and office expenses; $9.2 million on “conferences, conventions and meetings”; $8 million on fundraising; and nearly $8.5 million on travel. None of the Clintons is on the payroll, but they do enjoy first-class flights paid for by the foundation.
In all, the group reported $84.6 million in “functional expenses” on its 2013 tax return and had more than $64 million left over — money the organization has said represents pledges rather than actual cash on hand.
Some of the tens of millions in administrative costs finance more than 2,000 employees, including aid workers and health professionals around the world.
But that’s still far below the 75 percent rate of spending that nonprofit experts say a good charity should spend on its mission.
Charity Navigator, which rates nonprofits, recently refused to rate the Clinton Foundation because its “atypical business model . . . doesn’t meet our criteria.”
 
I don’t see how that enriches the Clintons greatly other than first class airline flights and that is not “enriching them greatly.”

It specifically says “none of the Clintons are on the payroll.” 🤷
 
I didn’t post it as “proof” of anything. You should be posting to the person who did.

I posted a current one. Well, late 2015, as current as I could find.
 
Abortion was illegal. Women had them anyway. It appears women are going to have abortions whether they are legal or not.

It’s true that abortions skyrocketed once it was made legal, but they have been declining:

“While the number of abortions skyrocketed when abortion was legalized in 1973, peaking at 1.6 million in 1990, fortunately the annual totals have since steadily declined. Today, that death toll is believed to be in the neighborhood of 1.3 million. All told, NRLC projects that there have been over 43 million unborn babies that have lost their lives since the U.S. Supreme Court made Roe v. Wade (and its companion case Doe v. Bolton) the law of the land.” A Republican Supreme Court, too.
Even the declining numbers today are faaaaar greater than the number of abortions prior to Roe. So the legalization of abortion has increased the number of abortions, and making it illegal would decrease the number of abortions.
I don’t want to repeal laws against rape, assault, theft, and other crimes. If abortion is made illegal, I want the perpetrators of it - the doctors and the women who hired them to kill - punished just like rapists and thieves should be.
Why don’t you want to repeal laws against rape, assault, theft and murder? People will still commit these actions, even with them outlawed. Why don’t you support them being repealed? Be consistent.
Statistics show the vast majority, more than 99.9%, of women who pay to have their child killed are not under any kind of duress at all.
Now you’re just throwing out fake stats. Can’t take you seriously when you just make up stuff and have no concern for the truth.
“Estimates of the number of illegal abortions in the 1950s and 1960s ranged from 200,000 to 1.2 million per year. One analysis, extrapolating from data from North Carolina, concluded that an estimated 829,000 illegal or self-induced abortions occurred in 1967.”
Those made up estimates have been debunked. They are based on the worst kind of projections using the most cherry-picked data. It’s bunk.
And many women would go to Canada, to have a safe, legal, and relatively inexpensive abortion.
Just because Canada does something evil doesn’t mean the US must follow suit.
Using Planned Parenthood as a source of your argument won’t get you very far with Christians.
Abortion has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with people who refuse to see the culpability of the women who procure them. Women who procure abortions today should not be punished. Abortion is legal today and not a crime.
Your support of evil is noted.
 
I am being consistent. I’m saying all who commit a crime should be punished if there are not mitigating circumstances. That includes rapists, murderers, thieves, women who contract to kill their unborn children, etc.

Right now, it’s legal to kill an unborn child, so the people who do cannot be punished. I don’t think people should be punished in the absence of a law to the contrary.

There is no inconsistency and never was.
 
MODERATOR NOTICE

All posts are to be charitable

Charitably discuss the issues, not each other
 
Even the declining numbers today are faaaaar greater than the number of abortions prior to Roe. So the legalization of abortion has increased the number of abortions, and making it illegal would decrease the number of abortions.

Why don’t you want to repeal laws against rape, assault, theft and murder? People will still commit these actions, even with them outlawed. Why don’t you support them being repealed? Be consistent.

**Now you’re just throwing out fake stats. ** Can’t take you seriously when you just make up stuff and have no concern for the truth.

Those made up estimates have been debunked. They are based on the worst kind of projections using the most cherry-picked data. It’s bunk.

Just because Canada does something evil doesn’t mean the US must follow suit.

Using Planned Parenthood as a source of your argument won’t get you very far with Christians.

Your support of evil is noted.
Posters who intentionally and repeatedly make false and/or misleading statements **should **be challenged.
 
I think everyone has discussed that for days. The Supreme Court made that law, not Clinton.
You are pro-life, aren’t you? What do you think personally of her comments?

Like with numerous Supreme Court decisions, people can take a position on it, they can agree or disagree with it, and Clinton supports the Roe v Wade decision, whereas Ted Cruz for example opposes it, and their differing positions, if either become president, is likely reflect that, like with a nomination to the Supreme Court etc.
 
You are pro-life, aren’t you? What do you think personally of her comments?

Like with numerous Supreme Court decisions, people can take a position on it, they can agree or disagree with it, and Clinton supports the Roe v Wade decision, whereas Ted Cruz for example opposes it, and their differing positions, if either become president, is likely reflect that, like with a nomination to the Supreme Court etc.
:+1:This is the issue most seem to overlookvSC appointments.
 
You are pro-life, aren’t you? What do you think personally of her comments?

Like with numerous Supreme Court decisions, people can take a position on it, they can agree or disagree with it, and Clinton supports the Roe v Wade decision, whereas Ted Cruz for example opposes it, and their differing positions, if either become president, is likely reflect that, like with a nomination to the Supreme Court etc.
Yes, I’m pro-life, though some would contend I’m not because I don’t think making abortion illegal is going to change things. Like Pope Paul VI in Humanae Vitae, I think the “culture of death” was ushered in, and is maintained by, contraceptives because they remove the procreative aspect from the sexual act, and procreation is the sexual act’s primary function. When deprived of the procreative aspect, not that I think procreation has to occur each time, the sexual act also loses its unitive aspect and becomes just another form of recreation, and not true recreation, either in the sense of re-creation. I don’t think contraception is going to be leaving society anytime soon, and I don’t believe making abortion illegal is going to happen, either. The Supreme Court justices can’t be counted on - Roe v. Wade showed us that, though I think they made the right decision. Historically, in English common law and in the US Constitution, a fetus has had no rights. Rights have been vested in the mother, although the Court did say that states have a right in protecting those fetuses that have reached viability. I do support those states that have enacted laws that make killing a pregnant woman the murder of two rather than one.

I would like to see abortion eradicated, but I think the only way that is going to happen is by instilling in children a deep respect for the sanctity of life. There are laws against murder, rape, theft, fraud, etc. and yet these things go on daily. If Roe v. Wade is overturned, women will still have abortions, but more women will die from illegal abortions. All we’ll be doing by overturning Roe v. Wade is creating an environment for illegal abortionists to flourish and grow wealthy by murdering. And people who don’t want to do it illegally, will go to Canada. The problem is the way our Constitution is written and the fact that it was modeled, to a certain extent, after English common law. The justices who voted to uphold Roe v. Wade might not have personally believed in abortion, but they might have felt that the Constitution did not grant the unborn rights. Their personal beliefs could have conflicted with the job they were being paid to do. I don’t know, but would not be surprised if that were the case with some.

I don’t really think about that particular comment. Certainly Hillary knows a fetus, an embryo, is going to develop into a human person and it will reach viability. Certainly she knows the state has an interest in protecting the lives of fetuses that have reached viability. I don’t even know if she is truly pro-choice or if she just finds that politically advantageous, just as I don’t know if Donald Trump is truly pro-life or if he just finds that politically advantageous. Hillary Clinton has said that a just-conceived embryo holds the “potential” for life. Personally, I don’t know when God infuses the embryo with a soul, and I don’t know of any Church document that specifically states when, but since God breathed life into Adam as soon as he created him, I’ll go with birth.

Everyone who knows where babies come from knows a human embryo, if left in place and healthy, grows into a human person. So I don’t know what the firestorm is over that comment. She also said there was “plenty of room” to restrict later-term abortions. That, to me, is far more important and is something that could realistically be expected from a Clinton administration.
 
I suppose the new “fine line” will be: “When does the human fetus acquire a soul?”:

I am a member of the NCBC, so know Fr. Tadeusz Pacholczyk well. He says the Church teaches the following:

“This declaration expressly leaves aside the question of the moment when the spiritual soul is infused. There is not a unanimous tradition on this point and authors are as yet in disagreement. For some it dates from the first instant; for others it could not at least precede nidation [implantation in the uterus]. It is not within the competence of science to decide between these views, because the existence of an immortal soul is not a question in its field. It is a philosophical problem from which our moral affirmation remains independent.”

But none of that makes abortion “right,” because even if the fetus has not yet been blessed with a soul, it is human life and has the potential to be blessed with a God-given soul.

My own personal belief is that the human embryo is given a soul at conception, but no one really knows.

I’ve done volunteer work in various hospices since I was a teenager I am more personally involved in end-of-life issues than beginning-of-life issues. I understand the emotional component of both sides, but no progress can be made when people become overly emotional in discussions or begin to name call. That just impedes progress.

Edit: In post #1382 of mine, I meant to say that the human fetus acquires a soul at conception. Like Hillary, I can and do misspeak. 🤷 And that is just my opinion. I don’t know when it acquires an immortal soul.
 
:+1:This is the issue most seem to overlookvSC appointments.
Can’t count on Supreme Court appointees. White, a Democrat, dissented in the Roe v. Wade opinion. Five of the seven justices were Republican appointees.

In 1992, it was a Republican-appointed Supreme Court that upheld PP v. Casey.

They look at the Constitution; they don’t vote their personal beliefs or the beliefs of the president who appointed them.

Fluid constructionists are much more likely to be Democrats and much more amenable to not sticking to the letter of the Constitution, which follows English common law in which the unborn have no rights and all rights are vested in the mother.
 
Can’t count on Supreme Court appointees. White, a Democrat, dissented in the Roe v. Wade opinion. Five of the seven justices were Republican appointees.

In 1992, it was a Republican-appointed Supreme Court that upheld PP v. Casey.

They look at the Constitution; they don’t vote their personal beliefs or the beliefs of the president who appointed them.

Fluid constructionists are much more likely to be Democrats and much more amenable to not sticking to the letter of the Constitution, which follows English common law in which the unborn have no rights and all rights are vested in the mother.
Ancient history of Supreme Court appointments tells us nothing about abortion because presidents are now aware of the likely approach their appointees will have to abortion, where none of them could have known a right to abortion would be pulled out of a totally faked “penumbra” to the Constitution.

As you know, in Gonzales vs. Carhart, a nine-year-old case involving laws against partial birth abortion. every Repub appointee voted in favor of the bans. Partial birth abortion was too much even for Kennedy. Every Dem appointee opposed the bans.

It’s a lot more predictable now than it was in 1973. So let us not tell people that Supreme Court appointments don’t matter. They matter a great deal, and those who believe in a “fluid constitution” actually don’t believe in inherent human rights at all.

Might want to study English Common Law again. Generally, abortion was not illegal if it occurred before “quickening” (somewhere around 13-25 weeks). After that, it was illegal. That was based on the erroneous belief that the baby wasn’t actually “alive” until she moved. But that’s not the whole story. The “right to life” under English Common Law was the right of the sovereign in his subjects. To kill an Englishman was to steal from the King.

The American thought, as expressed in the Declaration of Independence was that the right to life is inherent to the individual; a gift of the Creator to the person, not to the sovereign. Fundamentally a very different concept, and one that those who believe in a “fluid constitution” do not accept. A “fluid constitution” concept is simply relativism; an endorsement of the idea of the “Death of God”. If there are no rights granted by the Creator, then rights flow simply from the will of the powerful.

It is extremely erroneous to think the Constitution is nothing but an embodiment of English Common Law. It’s a radical departure from it; a departure for which people were willing to fight and die. And the way in which it is different is that the Constitution embodies the idea that people have inherent rights no matter what the sovereign says. In Britain, to this very day, parliament has ultimate sovereignty (the king once did, but the Supremacy Act took it away)

To the extent America adopted English Common Law, it was only to the extent that it was not inconsistent with the Constitution of the U.S. or the various states, or the enactments of American legislatures. There is still plenty of the Common Law still around in most states, but there is a lot of it that has been superseded.
 
A word about the “reasoning” in Roe vs. Wade and its progeny.

All one has to do is read it and nothing could be more obvious that the justices simply invented a “right to abortion”. The majority opinion is confused and rambling. The justices admitted they really didn’t know when human life began (a remarkably ridiculous statement even then, made even more ridiculous by modern science). They fretted about and came up with their totally worthless “stages” of gestation in which the state might protect the life of the unborn child progressively. And they did that without any foundational basis at all. But then, they ended up putting it in the hands of a “woman and her doctor”, that is, abortion on demand.
 
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