Hillary Clinton Thread

[Peter_J]

We have Entered the twilight zone. Suddenly abortion supporters are arguing that women must be punished for murder and that every pregnancy must be investigated.

Well, Dems had to eventually get tired of playing the race card and the gender card. Donald Trump just offered them a new one: the “murder” card.

 

[Crossbones]

They Did drop-significantly. About 7% between the early 60s when states first started approving abortions and 1975 after Roe was fully in effect . They were down over 10% from the late 50s.

That seems like it would have more to do with Griswold and the availability of birth control than Roe. There was no significant drop off around 1973.

 

[Peter_J]

Well, Dems had to eventually get tired of playing the race card and the gender card. Donald Trump just offered them a new one: the “murder” card.

(Needless to say I’m being a little sarcastic there. Trump didn’t say that women who have abortions should be punished for murder.)

 

[estesbob]

That seems like it would have more to do with Griswold and the availability of birth control than Roe. There was no significant drop off around 1973.

There was over a 10% drop between the States started legalizing abortion and 1975 Those are the facts You can parse them anyway want but the facts are the way they are.

 

[Jeanne_S]

Then why didn’t we see the corresponding drop in births?

It didn’t work before. Abortions were going on because those seeking the abortion feared no punishment.

With legalization of abortion it was thought the stigma would be removed by normalizing what everyone knows is not a normal action.Women were sold the line that it was their bodies,their choice,no biggie.with the increase in abortion there was also the heightened awareness of post abortion depression,regret.So,here we are today,abortion is no safer than it ever was by and large.Women are no being pressured into terminating their babies for the slightest defect.Women having twins,triplets,etc are encouraged to reduce the babies in their wiomb for safety sake and health of fewer babies.This is so diabolical,abortion has become the go to procedure for pretty much any issue deemed unfavorable in pregnancy. The medical community who takes an oath to do no harm are now promoting the killing of babies ,just part of their job.:

 

[Crossbones]

There was over a 10% drop between the States started legalizing abortion and 1975 Those are the facts You can parse them anyway want but the facts are the way they are.

Only 4 states had legal abortion when the Roe decision was made (Washington, NY, Hawaii and Alaska). That states with maybe 10% of the US population, so it couldn’t have made that big of an impact. NY legalized abortion in 1970, and the number of births was falling well before then.

To me, it looks like the wide availability of birth control mattered a great deal more. And 10% is about 300K births, not 1M. It really doesn’t look like there was that big of an up-click in abortion based on the data.

 

[Peter_J]

Only 4 states had legal abortion when the Roe decision was made (Washington, NY, Hawaii and Alaska). That states with maybe 10% of the US population, so it couldn’t have made that big of an impact. NY legalized abortion in 1970, and the number of births was falling well before then.

To me, it looks like the wide availability of birth control mattered a great deal more. And 10% is about 300K births, not 1M. It really doesn’t look like there was that big of an up-click in abortion based on the data.

So you know how many abortions there were before Roe?? Please enlighten the rest of us.

 

[estesbob]

Only 4 states had legal abortion when the Roe decision was made (Washington, NY, Hawaii and Alaska). That states with maybe 10% of the US population, so it couldn’t have made that big of an impact. NY legalized abortion in 1970, and the number of births was falling well before then.

To me, it looks like the wide availability of birth control mattered a great deal more. And 10% is about 300K births, not 1M. It really doesn’t look like there was that big of an up-click in abortion based on the data.

Birth rates dropped as abortion became more widespread. Those are the facts

 

[estesbob]

So you know how many abortions there were before Roe?? Please enlighten the rest of us.

Per the CDC about 400,000 legal and illegal per year. Despite parsing of numbers and irrelevant unsubstantiated correlations(or lack there of) by some here is no real dispute on either side of the issue that abortions increased by over a million a year after Roe was imposed.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Yes we are seeing a lot of Democrat Catholics follow their egos. I prefer, like Francis, to follow the teachings of the Church. I also agree with Francis that our conscience should not be remote controlled-it should be well formed by the teachings of the Church.

We obviously then have different definitions of “remote controlled” but have it your way. I just know I can’t force my conscience to be something it is not. My conscience is at peace with my voting decisions though. It never causes me to lose any sleep. I can lose sleep over other things. But how I vote is not one of them. Just as I’m sure yours is clear as well.

 

[Crossbones]

Birth rates dropped as abortion became more widespread. Those are the facts

Not enough to explain the rise in abortions, unless the rise wasn’t as great as you think. I would suggest that there were a whole lot of illegal abortions going on before Roe. Probably because the people seeking abortions weren’t prosecuted.

 

[Crossbones]

Per the CDC about 400,000 legal and illegal per year. Despite parsing of numbers and irrelevant unsubstantiated correlations(or lack there of) by some here is no real dispute on either side of the issue that abortions increased by over a million a year after Roe was imposed.

Again, we did not see a 1 million drop in births. In fact, the drop was about 100,000.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

Maybe he really doesn’t want to go back to the white house: restriction of freedom?

How would his freedom be restricted? It’s not like he has to go out to a job or anything. He writes; he speaks; he can still do those things.

 

[estesbob]

We obviously then have different definitions of “remote controlled” but have it your way. I just know I can’t force my conscience to be something it is not. My conscience is at peace with my voting decisions though. It never causes me to lose any sleep. I can lose sleep over other things. But how I vote is not one of them. Just as I’m sure yours is clear as well.

We were discussing whether a Catholic can illicitly vote for a pro-abortion candidate . Obviously that would be of little concern for a non-Catholic or nonpracticing Catholic . But for those of us who believe that the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ and is the receptacle of truth the teachings of the Church are central to the way we live our lives . We simply cannot dismiss them when they interfere with our political allegiances

 

[DeniseNY]

We were discussing whether a Catholic can illicitly vote for a pro-abortion candidate . Obviously that would be of little concern for a non-Catholic or nonpracticing Catholic . But for those of us who believe that the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ and is the receptacle of truth the teachings of the Church are central to the way we live our lives . We simply cannot dismiss them when they interfere with our political allegiances

 

[Peter_J]

Per the CDC about 400,000 legal and illegal per year. Despite parsing of numbers and irrelevant unsubstantiated correlations(or lack there of) by some here is no real dispute on either side of the issue that abortions increased by over a million a year after Roe was imposed.

TY for that info, especially the part about both sides agreeing about the numbers.

 

[Crossbones]

TY for that info, especially the part about both sides agreeing about the numbers.

Except that the numbers don’t seem to make sense in the light of the number of live births.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

We obviously then have different definitions of “remote controlled” but have it your way. I just know I can’t force my conscience to be something it is not. My conscience is at peace with my voting decisions though. It never causes me to lose any sleep. I can lose sleep over other things. But how I vote is not one of them. Just as I’m sure yours is clear as well.

I agree with you, Sy. I don’t lose a minute of sleep over my vote, either. In his new apostolic exhortation, Amoris Laetitia, Pope Francis urges Catholics to stop following rules blindly and show more compassion. Of course he was speaking more of homosexuals and the divorced and remarried, but “following rules blindly” is never a good idea.

Like you, I examined all the issues before I decided on my vote, and I’m very happy with it.

 

[JimG]

Next time I get a speeding ticket, I will explain to the officer that I do not believe in following rules blindly.

 

[Sy_Noe]

I agree with you, Sy. I don’t lose a minute of sleep over my vote, either. In his new apostolic exhortation, Amoris Laetitia, Pope Francis urges Catholics to stop following rules blindly and show more compassion. Of course he was speaking more of homosexuals and the divorced and remarried, but “following rules blindly” is never a good idea.

Like you, I examined all the issues before I decided on my vote, and I’m very happy with it.

And I see you’re religion is Roman Catholic.