Hillary Clinton urges Britain to remain in the European Union

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I’m still baffled, and may remain so forever on this subject.

So, if Ireland gets a lot of subsidies from the EU, I get that part of it. But somebody is on the paying end. Who?

I think I recall reading somewhere, perhaps on here, that Scotland gets money from the EU as well.

So, is this about subsidies, or perceived subsidies that would go to some, but not to others?

And, if in 2040 Britain is on the “top of the heap” economically in the EU, won’t Britain be the payer?
 
Subsidies are certainly part of the benefit for the poorer EU countries but the debate around them (and the net contributors) are just one small part of the overall debate. Part of the reason for this is that historically a significant part of the budget went to the Common Agricultural Policy. It was not a good system and ended up rewarding inefficient smallholdings in France and Spain, hence Mrs Thatcher’s famous rebate for Britain which is still in payment today - though naturally as one of the richest countries it is still a net contributor. The CAF has happily been reformed in 2013 and the budget will fall to a third of its former size by 2018. In addition to subsidies there are also grants for various things which Northern Ireland and Scotland have benefited from. Yes, it’s a complicated business but the point is that this aspect is not a key element of the debate since the trade benefits certainly outweigh the costs of the contributors many times over.
 
Ridgerunner said:
I’m still baffled, and may remain so forever on this subject.

So, if Ireland gets a lot of subsidies from the EU, I get that part of it. But somebody is on the paying end. Who?

I think I recall reading somewhere, perhaps on here, that Scotland gets money from the EU as well.

So, is this about subsidies, or perceived subsidies that would go tof some, but not to others?

And, if in 2040 Britain is on the “top of the heap” economically in the EU, won’t Britain be the payer?
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I think Liturgyluver has explained the subsidies/grant issue with Northern Ireland and to an extent Scotland far better than I could 🙂

I only raised that in response to your question of why these regions tend to be more pro-EU, this potentially being one among many factors, but it would never feature in my argument of why we should stay in the EU - that is is primarily due to the trade benefits stemming from the huge single market without tariffs and non - tariff barriers that membership gives us access too.

Why are you so baffled about why we’d want to stay in the single market (among other reasons of solidarity, intelligence sharing, common arrest warrants that making hunting terrorists easier etc.)?

Plus Britain is not in the Euro zone like Germany so if we remain in the EU and become top dog by 2040 we won’t be bailing any weaker members out if there is another sovereign debt crisis - which I would hope and expect there wouldn’t be by 2040, with core Europe having further integrated it’s fiscal policy and fully stabilised it’s currency.
 
Vouthon said:
I think Liturgyluver has explained the subsidies/grant issue with Northern Ireland and to an extent Scotland far better than I could 🙂

I only raised that in response to your question of why these regions tend to be more pro-EU, this potentially being one among many factors, but it would never feature in my argument of why we should stay in the EU - that is is primarily due to the trade benefits stemming from the huge single market without tariffs and non - tariff barriers that membership gives us access too.

Why are you so baffled about why we’d want to stay in the single market (among other reasons of solidarity, intelligence sharing, common arrest warrants that making hunting terrorists easier etc.)?

Plus Britain is not in the Euro zone like Germany so if we remain in the EU and become top dog by 2040 we won’t be bailing any weaker members out if there is another sovereign debt crisis - which I would hope and expect there wouldn’t be by 2040, with core Europe having further integrated it’s fiscal policy and fully stabilised it’s currency.
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Somehow the prospect of being top dog in the EU without having the responsibility of subsidizing those who are there only because of subsidies, does not seem too likely to me.

But again, I’m no expert on Europe.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Somehow the prospect of being top dog in the EU without having the responsibility of subsidizing those who are there only because of subsidies, does not seem too likely to me.

But again, I’m no expert on Europe.
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I was referring specifically to the Eurozone/sovereign debt issue (aka Greece and other weaker Southern economies), which was the point you initially raised when quoting from one of the articles I linked. Since we’re not in the Euro, the lot of bailing these countries out vis-à-vis the central bank falls to our German friends and other strong euro-currency countries - and for that I’m very thankful.

In terms of subsidies, I would doubt anyone stays in the EU only because of subsidies but that’s just my two cent.
 
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