Hinduism?????

  • Thread starter Thread starter Kilnadore
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
My penny chatechism answers the question, who is God. God is the supreme spirit who alone exists of Himself and is infinite in all His perfections.

What are the perfections of God? God is love, justice, truth, life, existance, etc.

All of God can be found in any one of His perfections. If you know God’s love you will also know truth. In other words God can be manifested in any of these various ways that we segregate from one another to try to comprehend or experience one at a time. Nevertheless, God is all of these various perfections. That does not make God a plurality, but knowable in different ways.

I am not commenting in any way on Hinduism or defending the religion, but we should keep in mind that God can manifest Himself to us through any of His various perfections.
I understand what you are saying and I agree with it. And while I also agree God can be found in many things, and I also agree that it is through the Holy Spirit that God can speak to us and let us know things. We can only know what he has revealed to us by the Holy Spirit. We do not know everything.

But we still know in what God has revealed to us through his Son is that God is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit ONE in being with the Father.

What we also have is the true word of God, that warns us, that to be aware of strange doctrines.

Christ taught us God’s revelation comes from the Church.It is the Holy Spirit that comes to us through the Church, not by our own personal revelations.

If we are to find the pilar of truth we are to look to the Church, not within ourself.
 
Within the Hinduistic conceptual religious backdrop it is not possible to have genuine religion. There is no sense to worship any god or deity, if one’s inner self or Atman is identical with the Brahman, just like the personal gods. On that premise, there would be no real superiority of the gods over men; their worship has no sense except, perhaps, for protection purposes. Within the context of a rigid monism, men worshipping the gods would just be worshipping themselves. Theo*retical Hinduism has not only effaced the genuine concept of the deity and the object of religious worship, but has also made of religious worship a non-sensical undertaking and a superfluous one.
catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/hinduism/wocreator.htm

“Religious error and its propagation are very pernicious evils to the Church and to souls, hence the Church’s strict right to stop the manifestation of false religions…”
Thomas Aquinas****
I also think this site will pretty much sum it up.
 
Hi,

This might not be in the right forum?

New on the forum, been looking a lot at new age dangers etc recently. Just been trying to find a website promoting kundalini yoga which describes the horrific ‘symptoms’ which can accompany a kundalini awakening, as I wanted to show it to my sister. I found it a few days ago.

Couldnt find it but I did some reading about Gopi Krishna and his many books, the kundalini yoga main man. He refers to ‘satanic faces’ staring at him when he tried to sleep.

I wasnt aware that satan existed in hinduism? What is a hindu doing even using the term satanic to describe something ‘awful’, another word he used when describing these nocturnal experiences.

I just found this a bit bizzare that a hindu would describe anything as satanic? Is he inadvertently admitting Christianity has merit or does hinduism allow for belief in anything whatsoever including Christian God and satan?

Thanks.
Hinduism is hard to pin down since it’s a very diverse religion. They (those who do believe in this aspect of good and evil), don’t believe that there’s a devil who opposes God and man. They do recognize that earthly evil exists, even evil people, but this is temporal evil and may be in the mind of the believer, a different level of realization.

As there are varying sects within Hinduism, one sect, Ayyavazhi, does have a Satan-like figure called Kroni.

I don’t think it says anything about Christianity (since Hinduism predates Christianity); many if not most religions have evil or demons or concept of a devil. .
 
Hinduism is hard to pin down since it’s a very diverse religion. They (those who do believe in this aspect of good and evil), don’t believe that there’s a devil who opposes God and man. They do recognize that earthly evil exists, even evil people, but this is temporal evil and may be in the mind of the believer, a different level of realization.

As there are varying sects within Hinduism, one sect, Ayyavazhi, does have a Satan-like figure called Kroni.

I don’t think it says anything about Christianity (since Hinduism predates Christianity); many if not most religions have evil or demons or concept of a devil. .
Hi,
the original question was why did a Hindu person use the word Satanic? It didnt ask if Hindu’s believed in evil or spiritual evil entities. It did not state that Christianity predated Hinduism, Satan, devils or demons. Christianity did not invent Satan at the moment of Christs conception, no Satan predates Christ and the New Testament, by quite a while?

Of course Hinduism refers to devils and demons prior to Christs time, as they existed before Christ walked the earth and they troubled human beings before the birth of Christ.

Yes yoga, a kundalini website says openly that ALL yoga is kundalini yoga, “even hatha yoga” as that is where it ultimately leads. As yoga means ‘being yoked to’ or ‘union’, how does a kundalini awakening, the desired union with God bring about horrific demonic experiences, but interspersed with periods of bliss to make it more palatable? What sort of God is being united with in this awakening?
The negative experiences of those who have had this awakening are well documented on Kundalini websites, it doesnt sound like divinity, quite the oppositte.

Hinduism predates Christianity. Human beings predate Chritianity, sin predates Christianity, animals predate Christianity, the weather predates Christianity. Satan predates Christianity but I aint worshipping him.

Hinduisms predating Christianity has been offered here several times as an indicator that it somehow automatically has more credibility, as its older. But there is no automatic merit to that stance whatsoever. Zero.

I think I understand how Gopi Krishna could describe things as satanic, he probably read the bible more than most Christians do!
 
Hi,

This might not be in the right forum?

New on the forum, been looking a lot at new age dangers etc recently. Just been trying to find a website promoting kundalini yoga which describes the horrific ‘symptoms’ which can accompany a kundalini awakening, as I wanted to show it to my sister. I found it a few days ago.

Thanks.
Kilnadore----

If your sister is messing with trying to bring about a deliberate kundalini awakening, I would recommend this website and forum to her:shalomplace.com (click on “Discussion Board” for the forum)

The moderator of the forum is a Catholic spiritual director who, in the course of Christian contemplative practice many years ago, had a kundalini awakening. I think he’s one of the best resources for Christians who inadvertantly come to experience kundalini symptoms; he’s balanced and level-headed in neither demonizing nor idolizing kundalini.

I don’t experience kundalini symptoms, but a number of other forum members at Shalom Place do, and they are a good resource as well. From their experience, I would think it unwise for your sister to purposely seek a kundalini awakening. Even those at SP who have had mind-blowing experiences say they wouldn’t trade their regular old Christianity for kundalini.
 
They pray to demi-gods :confused: That should be your first clue there. To pray to demi-gods as you claim is for one thing a mortal sin. The First commandment I am the Lord your God you will have no gods before me.

You cannot pray to anyone but God the Almighty. And as far as this false-ego of humanity you talk about I know nothing about. I believe as the Lord Jesus told us he is sending the Advocate the Holy Spirit to the Church to guide us into all truth until the end of age. So that is impossible to be led astray. The Holy Spirit would never do such a thing. We have the promise from God.
It’s alright…you do not accept that GOD created the demi-gods, as His stewards to oversee His Creations, along with Archangels, Angels…right?

Don’t put to much into it, because you are right…He is also a jealous GOD and would preferr that all of us, all of humanity, pray directly to Him, instead of their feelings of fear and taking baby steps…working themselves to praying to anyone…less than GOD.

You know, do not pray to the Apostles, any of the Saints, Mother Mary, even to His only begotten son, Jesus, for interceding for us, to GOD…

They did change the written Brahmanism religion…all the demons I have read of in the Vedas, were human beings (most were powerful human kings who went against the belief, in GOD, the Father)…except in Brahmanism, GOD incarnated, to speak, to clarify His religion and His expectations for when Humanity became lost or perverted by Humanity…

All religions have embellished their prospective religions with stories, analogies and dogmas, added their own rites, changed their interpretation of GOD’s written words…it happens…best to remain with GOD, from the beginning of Creation, without the embellishments…

Best to pray to GOD, only…
 
It’s alright…you do not accept that GOD created the demi-gods, as His stewards to oversee His Creations, along with Archangels, Angels…right?

Don’t put to much into it, because you are right…He is also a jealous GOD and would preferr that all of us, all of humanity, pray directly to Him, instead of their feelings of fear and taking baby steps…working themselves to praying to anyone…less than GOD.

You know, do not pray to the Apostles, any of the Saints, Mother Mary, even to His only begotten son, Jesus, for interceding for us, to GOD…

They did change the written Brahmanism religion…all the demons I have read of in the Vedas, were human beings (most were powerful human kings who went against the belief, in GOD, the Father)…except in Brahmanism, GOD incarnated, to speak, to clarify His religion and His expectations for when Humanity became lost or perverted by Humanity…

All religions have embellished their prospective religions with stories, analogies and dogmas, added their own rites, changed their interpretation of GOD’s written words…it happens…best to remain with GOD, from the beginning of Creation, without the embellishments…

Best to pray to GOD, only…
Wow! Down Boy:D or Girl! 😉

To begin with there is only One God, I never said you cannot ask The Blessed Mother to interceed for you, or the saints to interceed. Of course you can do that.

Intercession is asking another to pray for you on your behalf. But because we can ask for prayers from the Saints, and Holy Ones and the Mother of Christ has nothing to do with the fact that it is still the call of God.

Asking for the Prayers of Holy Ones has nothing to do with praying to anyone but the one true God.

I pray for My Son, Daughter, family everyday. I go to the Blessed Mother (she is my favorite to go to) and I ask her to go to her Son and ask him for help. Do I have to? Can I not go to her Son by myself? Of course I can.

But I believe as we are taught that her prayers are very powerful. But make no mistake her prayers as powerful as they are, still cannot compare to the power of her Son. And still do not change the will of our Lord.

It is her prayers that I ask for not to give me what I want, but what I need. And her prayers of intercession to accept what God has said.

It is her prayers that I believe that give me more Grace from her Son to accept his will.

But make no mistake it is all God. Rather it is God the Son, God the Father, or God the Holy Spirit that I pray to. It is the same, the One and ONLY ONE GOD in 3 persons who I pray to.

When we begin our prayer we begin in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

We never begin our prayer in any other name then in the name of God the Almighty.

The Trinity is still ONE God!
 
And you are correct I have never heard of these demi-gods you talk of. There is no such thing as a half god. This is, as I have explained a strange doctrine. The bible says stay away from that.
 
Within the Hinduistic conceptual religious backdrop it is not possible to have genuine religion. There is no sense to worship any god or deity, if one’s inner self or Atman is identical with the Brahman, just like the personal gods. On that premise, there would be no real superiority of the gods over men; their worship has no sense except, perhaps, for protection purposes. Within the context of a rigid monism, men worshipping the gods would just be worshipping themselves. Theo*retical Hinduism has not only effaced the genuine concept of the deity and the object of religious worship, but has also made of religious worship a non-sensical undertaking and a superfluous one.
catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/hinduism/wocreator.htm

“Religious error and its propagation are very pernicious evils to the Church and to souls, hence the Church’s strict right to stop the manifestation of false religions…”
Thomas Aquinas****
I agree with you, Hinduism says that each person is** God and they just have to understand that to be one with the Supreme. However ordinary people worhsip their various Gods in temples, offer sacrifice, sing hymns, and perform rituals. So there is a huge disconnect between the rituals and spiritual growth.**
 
Hi everybody, this is my first real participation on this forum. I hope I don’t get banned! 😉

I am a Roman Catholic, devoted to the Rosary. I have, in my life, explored many different spiritual paths. I was raised Catholic, and I abandoned the Church (though never completely) over the course of my life, and God brought me back to her. I now have no qualms about declaring myself Catholic, but I also have a lot of respect for sincere seekers after truth in many of the other traditions I have encountered in my life.

This thread is about Hinduism, which I think can more accurately be called Vedic Philosophy or Vedic Religion. Some have mentioned Brahmanism, which was the precessor of Vedism historically. I have a lot to say on a lot of all this; in this post, I will try to give just a brief overview.

There are four main classifications that religions in general fall into, to wit: Taoic, Vedic, Abrahamic, and Shamanic. Taoic religions originate in ancient China and are based around the idea of Tao. Examples are Taoism, Confucianism, Shintoism. Vedic religions originate in ancient India and have their roots in the Vedas, which are some of the oldest Scriptures in the world, fairly contemporary with Genesis. Examples are Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism. Shamanic religions are all over the world, and have their roots in the spiritual experiences of indigenous peoples. Native American religions are one example of these, and paganism in general (for example Wicca) falls into this category. Finally, Abrahamic religions are based in God’s own revelation and the covenant and promise He made to Abram of Ur (later Abraham), “I will make your descendants like the stars in the sky.” As most people are aware, this category includes Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. There is a fifth category that can be called Syncretistic religions, and these include the Sikh (which came about by the confluence of Islam and Hinduism, and is the fifth largest world religion, after Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism) and the Baha’i.

Catholicism is Christianity and thus is Abrahamic, but the word “catholic” means universal, and if the Church is to be truly universal, I think on some level it must also be seen as syncretistic. There is historical precedent for this. Saint Paul strove to be all things to all people, and early Catholic theology sought to incorporate both Hebrew and Greek philosophy. Saint Paul tried to explain the Gospel to the Athenians first by pointing to their own temple, “to an unknown god.” Later, Saint Augustine developed his theology by incorporating Plato, and later still, Saint Thomas Aquinas, by incorporating Aristotle.

I think it would be patently absurd to imagine that valid philosophical thought were limited to ancient Greece! To get back to the subject of this thread, the Vedic philosophy is an ancient and well-respected tradition. Further, evangelism in the East has simply not met with the popular success that it did in the West. There is nothing in the history of China or India that can be compared in any meaningful way to Christendom in Europe. Never has it been the case in those places that Christianity has been the majority religion, and China and India are well-known to be the two most populous countries in the world.

So. Great big introduction to my thoughts, long post (might have to break it into parts). But what shall I say to the topic at hand? I am a faithful Catholic. I am not interested in helping the perpetuation of Hinduism as a system of belief, or more accurately, as several systems of belief. But I have a lot of respect for the Vaishnavas I have met, and some of their theology strikes me as accurate. I believe that God’s Will is for the whole world to be Catholic, and further, I believe that it is His intention to accomplish His Will, and that He will infallibly do so. The Vaishnava sect of Hinduism is better known to most of us as the “Hare Krishnas.” They are not Monists, they are Theists. They do not hold that man can ever “become God” or “realize” he is God. Rather, they believe that God is God, and our eternal position is as servants of God. This teaching of theirs is one example of their accurate theology; the Catholic Church teaches exactly the same thing.

Moreover, Satan, too, is naturally a servant of God, as there is no other possible position for a creature to hold. God is able to use both good and evil to accomplish His good Purpose. The difference between Satan and Saint Michael is that Saint Michael loves God and serves Him willingly, whereas Satan hates God and serves Him in spite of himself. The reality of free will is simply this: that every creature must serve God, whether or not they want to, but the choice to co-operate or to rebel is the sovereign choice of the individual creature, with free will. Satan tried to contradict God’s Will, and he is unable to do so, since God is omnipotent. Yet God respects the free will of His creatures with immortal souls, and allows them to decide for themselves whether they will serve Him in loving obedience, or in hateful disobedience. Satan chose his own will over God; therefore everything he does with his own will is evil (since everything God wills is good, there is no other option if one wishes to rebel, than to become evil). But God uses both good and evil for His own good Purpose, so Satan serves God in spite of himself. God takes everything evil that Satan does and turns it around to work good with it, which increases Satan’s frustration and self-hatred. That is why we say at Easter, “O happy fault! O necessary sin of Adam, that merited for us Such a Redeemer!” God used the sin of Judas, which he committed with free will, to accomplish our Redemption. Nothing at all can ever ultimately contradict the Will of God.

(more to come. . .)
 
I want to point out something that it is easy to lose sight of, but which is clearly taught by the Church and which was explained by the late Great Pope John Paul II in his encyclical Veritatis Splendor. To quote,

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_06081993_veritatis-splendor_en.html

"

The Church knows that the issue of morality is one which deeply touches every person; it involves all people, even those who do not know Christ and his Gospel or God himself. She knows that it is precisely on the path of the moral life that the way of salvation is open to all. The Second Vatican Council clearly recalled this when it stated that “those who without any fault do not know anything about Christ or his Church, yet who search for God with a sincere heart and under the influence of grace, try to put into effect the will of God as known to them through the dictate of conscience… can obtain eternal salvation”. The Council added: “Nor does divine Providence deny the helps that are necessary for salvation to those who, through no fault of their own, have not yet attained to the express recognition of God, yet who strive, not without divine grace, to lead an upright life. For whatever goodness and truth is found in them is considered by the Church as a preparation for the Gospel and bestowed by him who enlightens everyone that they may in the end have life”.

"

I submit that part of the reason that the Church’s evangelical mission succeeded so poorly in the East is because they already had religions there that were the result of centuries of spiritual practice, and they did not see in the conduct of many of the missionaries, a superior morality. It was different in ancient Rome and Greece where the Gospel was well-received, because the morality of Christianity there was like a breath of fresh air, and had an obvious advantage over the paganism of common practice. But Hinduism, for example, already has a tradition of asceticism. There is already in place a tradition of renouncing the world and sensory pleasures to seek God with one’s whole mind and heart. One of the tenets of the Yoga school is called Brahmacharya, which means sexual abstinence and continence. So there is already a tradition in Hinduism something akin to the evangelical counsels of poverty, chastity, and obedience. Compared to the bacchanalian orgies of ancient Rome, the path of the Yogis in the East was far less dissimilar to the renunciation of the world of the Catholic monks.

So what is the solution? Why, indeed, would anyone (like me) even argue that the path of Catholicism is superior, if indeed the path of the Yogi bears good fruit?

The word, “yoga,” means yoke. Yoga is the goal and the pursuit of the goal of Union with God. To yoke two oxen together means to make them work in unison. Yoga means to be yoked to God.

Jesus said, “My yoke (“yoga!”) is easy, My burden light.”

Matthew 11:28 Come to me all you that labor and are burdened, and I will refresh you. 29 Take up my yoke upon you, and learn of me, because I am meek, and humble of heart: And you shall find rest to your souls. 30 For my yoke is sweet and my burden light.

Jesus is the Supreme Yogi. He is consubstantial with the Father. His Will and the Father’s Will are already One. And He gave us His Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity, in the Eucharist, to unite us (yoke us) to Himself, and through Himself, to His Father. So in Catholicism, there is nothing for us to do, because it has already been done for us, in Jesus Christ. The Yoga, is already done. We have only to receive it, to step out of the way with our own wills, and let God do His Will in us. The Fruit of the Tree of Life is given us; we have only to receive it. The entirety of what the Yogis were pursuing, is already done for us and given to us as our Spiritual Food. That is why He called His Yoga, “easy.”

Peace! Let me know your thoughts!
 
How does that contradict what I said, much less render it “nonsense?”
You would be hard pressed to find any Catholic or Orthodox bishops to refer to Christ as “the supreme yogi.” That is nothing but syncrestic hindu mumbo jumbo. 🤷
 
I would conjecture that Christianity has not been rejected by the people of the Indian sub continent. The official figures are 2% of the population are Christian, which would make the number of persons following Christianity seventeen million. However there are a number of converts who do not admit to being Christians, (though very devout) as they stand to lose Government benefits which accrue to members of the caste they belong to. I personally know of a number of persons like this.

However the reason why Christianity has not spread as it should, would also be because of the nature of Hinduism itself. Hinduism has a very rich mythological tradition with very appealing stories, it appeals to people’s superstitious nature. It is all pervasive, penetrating into every aspect of a person’s life. It’s a very sensual religion, and addictive as well. It does have good teaching, which becomes very obscure when you go deep into it.

Regarding China, Mao destroyed systematically all forms of religion. Even now religion has not taken deep roots, though the Goverment is promoting Buddhism.
 
You would be hard pressed to find any Catholic or Orthodox bishops to refer to Christ as “the supreme yogi.”
It might help to evangelize the Hindus if they did. And the title definitely fits, given the actual (as opposed to the popular) definition of “yoga.”

Catholicism is the true Yoga, that comes from God. That is how I see it.
That is nothing but syncrestic hindu mumbo jumbo. 🤷
And yet, I am not a Hindu, but a faithful Catholic. These ideas are not the ideas of any Hindu that I know of, they are the ideas of a Catholic.

I wonder if there are any Catholics besides me who would rather see barriers to understanding broken down as opposed to maintained?

I am not expecting the bishops in the current era to start accepting my ideas. Their job is to maintain orthodoxy. But I wonder if there are any lay Catholics who are willing to take a closer look at the way people of other cultures approach God, to build bridges rather than walls, and to work towards a more inclusive rather than an exclusive understanding of God’s Church?

I believe the Catholic Church has the fullness of truth, and the way of approaching God given by God Himself. But I also believe that God approaches each human being where he may be reached, and honors those who make a sincere effort to come to know Him by drawing them closer to Himself, with or without the Church.

For example, there is the teaching in Hinduism of what is called Karma Yoga, which means to work, to carry out our duties in daily life, not for ourselves, but for God. To dedicate everything we do to God. To renounce all attachment to the fruits of our labors, and offer them all to God. To make daily life a path and a means of finding union with God. That teaching is found in Catholicism as well, but how many really practice it?
 
I would conjecture that Christianity has not been rejected by the people of the Indian sub continent. The official figures are 2% of the population are Christian, which would make the number of persons following Christianity seventeen million. However there are a number of converts who do not admit to being Christians, (though very devout) as they stand to lose Government benefits which accrue to members of the caste they belong to. I personally know of a number of persons like this.
“Whosoever shall deny Me before men, I shall deny before My heavenly Father.”

I don’t see how such persons can be considered “devout.” They should be willing to be martyred for their faith, and not every form of martyrdom means being killed.

And, 2% is scandalously few. I don’t think we should be proud of such a figure.
However the reason why Christianity has not spread as it should, would also be because of the nature of Hinduism itself. Hinduism has a very rich mythological tradition with very appealing stories, it appeals to people’s superstitious nature. It is all pervasive, penetrating into every aspect of a person’s life. It’s a very sensual religion, and addictive as well. It does have good teaching, which becomes very obscure when you go deep into it.
I think it may be possible to explain Catholicism in terms of the Vedic philosophy, just as Saint Augustine and Saint Thomas Aquinas explained it (to an extent) in terms of the Greek philosophy. We are familiar with theology built on a Western philosophical base, but if the teaching of Christ is truly universal (which I believe it is), then it seems to me its theology should be able to be built on an Eastern philosophical base as well, and it seems to me there may be good reasons why God allowed the East to retain its philosophical/religious heritage up to the present day. There are no longer any believers in Zeus or Apollo, but there are believers in Vishnu and Shiva. There may be a reason for that, and there may be more to it than meets the eye.
Regarding China, Mao destroyed systematically all forms of religion. Even now religion has not taken deep roots, though the Goverment is promoting Buddhism.
But the scantiness of the evangelization of China predated Mao by many centuries. I don’t know the figures of pre-Maoist Chinese Catholicism, but I do not think they were large.

O.K., I’ve looked it up on wiki. The article

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_China

says that Christianity has been known in China since the seventh century, and is a “growing minority religion.” The article says,

“The most recent official census enumerated 4 million Roman Catholics and 10 million ‎Protestants. However, independent estimates have ranged from 40 million to 130 million Christians.”

The Church was systematically persecuted by other regimes before Communism.

Anyway, the topic at hand is Hinduism, and my main concern is to evangelize my friends, somehow, many of whom tend towards Eastern beliefs, as I myself do, although I firmly believe in the fullness of the Truth found in God’s Church.

I seek a synthesis of all that is good in each different expression of man’s search for God. I think more in such a direction is possible than is generally known or acknowledged, and I’d like to explore the extent of that.
 
It might help to evangelize the Hindus if they did.
I doubt it.
Catholicism is the true Yoga, that comes from God. That is how I see it.
And I believe that is syncrestic Hindu nonsense. 🤷
And yet, I am not a Hindu, but a faithful Catholic.
I believe you are being deceived by this way of thinking.
These ideas are not the ideas of any Hindu that I know of, they are the ideas of a Catholic.
No way. These odd ideas that you propose are more in line with the thinking of Paramahansa Yogananda and Self-realization Fellowship cult.
I wonder if there are any Catholics besides me who would rather see barriers to understanding broken down as opposed to maintained?
Barriers can be broken down without adopting some type of Catholic/Hindu fusion theology.
I am not expecting the bishops in the current era to start accepting my ideas.
Thank God!
For example, there is the teaching in Hinduism of what is called Karma Yoga
This is based on the teachings of the Bhagavad Gita…it is not Catholic.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top