Hinduism?????

[undeserving]

'In my opinion, God is One, not several. There is only one God, one Truth, one true religion. I am reading things here like, “In Hinduism, their religion permeates every aspect of their lives.” Well, shouldn’t that be what Catholicism does? Shouldn’t we seek to be fully absorbed in God at every moment, with every breath? Or is that too intense for you?"

When I wrote this I did not mean that religion in a spiritual sense permeates the life of a Hindu, at least not the majority of them. A Hindu indulges in many rituals which are just that, rituals, they lead to no spiritual growth, not even better behaviour. It involves, chanting, incense, washing the idols, etc. They visit temples in groups like one would visit the cinema to see a favourite movie. The most favourite outing for a Hindu family is going to various temples across the country, but it’s like they go on a picnic not a pilgrimage. It’s a very physical religion. There is very little in it that speaks to the soul. Still I’d temper my remarks by saying, I do know some exceptionally good persons who meditate, study and try to be the best their religion tells them to be. Unfortunately there is very little guidance available. These persons would be graced anyway.

 

[Mickey]

I allow that I may be deceived. What should I do about it, in your opinion?

Spiritual deception is the wounding of human nature by falsehood. Spiritual deception is the state of all men without exception, and it has been made possible by the fall of our original parents. All of us are subject to spiritual deception. Awareness of this fact is the greatest protection against it. Likewise, the greatest spiritual deception of all is to consider oneself free from it. We are all deceived, all deluded; we all find ourselves in a condition of falsehood; we all need to be liberated by the Truth. The Truth is our Lord Jesus Christ (John 8:32-14:6). Let us assimilate that Truth by faith in it; Let us cry out in prayer to this Truth, and it will draw us out of the abyss of demonic deception and self-delusion.
St Ignatius Brianchaninov

What should a person do, who finds himself in agreement with the spirit of the Yoga path, and who wishes to remain a faithful Catholic?

My best advice would be to seek a good priest and go to confession.

But why try to tell me what to think?

I am not trying to tell you what to think. You have free will to think however you like.

You seem very dismissive of anything that might be new to you.

LOL! Believe me…it is not new to me. I have known many people that took the Catholic-Hindu path and found themselves at the edge of the abyss.

Do you think your limited view of God is complete?

Sticks and stones.

The episcopate in this era, I would not expect to give my ideas a second thought.

Thank God.

On the contrary, Mickey, Our Lady of Fatima specifically asked for the sacrifices necessary to carry out one’s duty according to one’s station in life. That sounds identical with Karma Yoga, to me.

So now you are saying that Our Lady of Fatima taught Karma Yoga?

I’m not convinced of your qualification to know that, however, and while I do take it to heart, I don’t think that I can, in good conscience, deny what my logical mind grasps as the simple truth.

I am a terrible sinner and there is no reason that you should be obedient to an anonymous Orthodox Christian on an internet forum……but it would probably be wise for you to have a long talk with a good traditional-minded priest.

I fully recognize that it would have been silly for me to think I could post my radical ideas here without being opposed, and you, so far, have presented all the opposition.

Finally I am in agreement with you. You** are** proposing radical ideas. But I have an inkling that there are scores on this forum who would provide more opposition to your radical ideas. Some may come to show themselves….others may be lurking.

But for the most part, you and I it seems, simply disagree.

No doubt.

I want to bring them all into the Catholic Church. I think I have a much better chance of doing that my way than I would yours.

My way is to pray for their conversion……and I will.

 

[rain_bow]

The Trinity, by contrast, is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, Three Persons in One God. The Trinity is NOT a philosophical construct,** it is a revealed truth**, and a mystery in the truest sense of that word. It is impossible for any creature to grasp the Essence of the Trinity, but it is possible, if God gives the understanding, to understand some of the mystery. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is the Power, Wisdom, and Love of God, who IS Love.

I refuse it. Please prove that trinity is revealed truth

Not the same, as noted, but there are similarities. The main difference is that the Holy Trinity is Reality, not myth.

evidence please, except Christian texts, because non Christians do not believe it.

 

[JosephFG]

Spiritual deception is the wounding of human nature by falsehood. Spiritual deception is the state of all men without exception, and it has been made possible by the fall of our original parents. All of us are subject to spiritual deception. Awareness of this fact is the greatest protection against it. Likewise, the greatest spiritual deception of all is to consider oneself free from it. We are all deceived, all deluded; we all find ourselves in a condition of falsehood; we all need to be liberated by the Truth. The Truth is our Lord Jesus Christ (John 8:32-14:6). Let us assimilate that Truth by faith in it; Let us cry out in prayer to this Truth, and it will draw us out of the abyss of demonic deception and self-delusion.
St Ignatius Brianchaninov

Thank you for this! Saint Ignatius Brianchaninov, pray for us!

My best advice would be to seek a good priest and go to confession.

Do you say, then, that I have committed sins of thought in this?

I am not trying to tell you what to think. You have free will to think however you like.

I don’t think that’s why I have free will. I think I have free will, to decide to love God or to love sin, and I hope I tend more and more to loving God.

LOL! Believe me…it is not new to me. I have known many people that took the Catholic-Hindu path and found themselves at the edge of the abyss.

I am devoted to the Rosary. I’m pretty safe.

Sticks and stones.

I did not mean to single you out. MY limited view of God is likewise incomplete.

Thank God.
So now you are saying that Our Lady of Fatima taught Karma Yoga?

How are we defining Karma Yoga? I think that is our disagreement.

I am a terrible sinner and there is no reason that you should be obedient to an anonymous Orthodox Christian on an internet forum……but it would probably be wise for you to have a long talk with a good traditional-minded priest.

Every chance I get! I love God’s priests.

Finally I am in agreement with you. You** are** proposing radical ideas.

Yes. I am not pretending they are not.

Remember a certain itinerant preacher in First Century Judaea, who also proposed radical ideas?

I’m not presuming to compare myself with Him, all I’m saying is that there is precedent. If one can be radical and orthodox at the same time, that is what I’m striving for.

But I have an inkling that there are scores on this forum who would provide more opposition to your radical ideas. Some may come to show themselves….others may be lurking.
No doubt.
My way is to pray for their conversion……and I will.

Thank you! In that, we are in 100% agreement. Thank you for joining me in prayer for my friends!

The kind of people I would love to draw into the Church — my friends — are the kind of people who deeply mistrust organized religion, with good reason. It is nothing short of a miracle, that I myself am a faithful Catholic. That is God’s doing, not mine. If He did it to me, certainly, He can do it to others whose minds are similar to mine. I am not so much coming from Traditional Catholicism and trying to branch out, as I am coming from a syncretistic, hippie-like, universal peace and love perspective, and being drawn by God more deeply into His Sacred Heart and the Immaculate Heart of Mary. In that process, I have come to see many parallels between authentic Catholic spirituality and the various forms of spirituality practiced by others in other traditions. I firmly believe that it is God’s Will to draw all persons into the fullness of the truth, so I seek to explain the Faith in terms that I can understand, and others like me, who have a background of spiritual exploration of many paths.

And yes, I do pray, every single day. I pray for them, often. But I am not going to merely pray for them, and fail to act, and I am not going to shun them until they convert. They are my friends. I am going to be the leaven in the loaf. When I talk to them, I am not going to preach at them, I am going to help them in any way I can to gain the understanding that I believe I possess, from God. I have not found it necessary to discard everything I’ve ever learned, in order to draw closer to God in His Church. I don’t see it as necessary for others, either. Truth is truth, and Jesus is THE Truth, but,

"
The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. (specifically Hinduism and Buddhism) She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men.
"

I seek a Synthesis of ALL truth, wherever it may be found.

Peace! Thanks again for your prayers and your admonitions!

 

[Mickey]

Do you say, then, that I have committed sins of thought in this?

I am not your judge.

Peace and prayers to you and yours.

 

[JosephFG]

I am not your judge.

Peace and prayers to you and yours.

I went to confession today, and before I went in, I was praying and examining my conscience, and I felt inspired to simply ask the confessor, “Is Syncretism a sin?” So I did, and without a moment’s hesitation, he said, “Yes.” So I confessed it.

Afterwards, I prayed to Saint Joseph under his title of Patron of the Universal Church. It seemed to me God was showing me that anything good that pertains to salvation is already found in Catholic Doctrine. So those things in other religions that are good and true, if they pertain to salvation, are already taught also by the Church, and if they are not taught by the Church, though they may be good and true, they do not pertain to salvation.

At least, that is where I’m at with it right now.

I tried out this expression with my confessor, and he said that this was OK: that the goal of the yogis is already given us in the Church.

Does that make more sense, and does it strike you as more orthodox? I am not even saying that it is even possible to attain the goal outside the Church, but that if they only knew, what they purport to seek, they would find in the Church.

Thanks for your words and your prayers!

 

[Mickey]

I tried out this expression with my confessor, and he said that this was OK: that the goal of the yogis is already given us in the Church.

Does that make more sense, and does it strike you as more orthodox? I am not even saying that it is even possible to attain the goal outside the Church, but that if they only knew, what they purport to seek, they would find in the Church.

Thanks for your words and your prayers!

Hi Joseph,

I read a book not long called, “The Gurus, the Young Man and Elder Paisios”. It was both fascinating and frightening at the same time. It was written by a man who kept flip-flopping between Hindu practices and Holy Orthodoxy. He travelled to India to dwell at various ashrams and to be instructed by different Hindu Yogis…then he would return to Mount Athos to receive prayers and spiritual direction from Elder Paisios (who I am sure will be glorified as a Saint in my lifetime). The things that happened to him in India almost destroyed him.

For me, Apostolic Christianity and Hinduism are not compatible…and I am unable to even use Hindu terms to refer to my faith. However, I pray for the conversion of those who are immersed in the Hindu mindset…so that they may discover the truth by the grace of God.

Interestingly, I went to confession yesterday…and I want to tell you that I am deeply sorry if I have offended you in any way. Please forgive me brother.

 

[Andromedus]

Hi,

This might not be in the right forum?

New on the forum, been looking a lot at new age dangers etc recently. Just been trying to find a website promoting kundalini yoga which describes the horrific ‘symptoms’ which can accompany a kundalini awakening, as I wanted to show it to my sister. I found it a few days ago.

Couldnt find it but I did some reading about Gopi Krishna and his many books, the kundalini yoga main man. He refers to ‘satanic faces’ staring at him when he tried to sleep.

I wasnt aware that satan existed in hinduism? What is a hindu doing even using the term satanic to describe something ‘awful’, another word he used when describing these nocturnal experiences.

I just found this a bit bizzare that a hindu would describe anything as satanic? Is he inadvertently admitting Christianity has merit or does hinduism allow for belief in anything whatsoever including Christian God and satan?

Thanks.

I don’t know what language he used when he said ‘‘satanic faces’’ but if it was for example English couldn’t it just have been an expression? In the same way non-Christians might say ‘‘Good Lord’’ ‘‘God’’ etc. But in this case he tried to describe something evil and therefore used the word satanic?

 

[Sufjon]

I’ve heard that Hindus have considerable flexibility regarding their beliefs in other religions’ ideas. I’m no authority on this, however, and am awaiting Sufjon’s response.

Hi Melzerboy: Sorry it took so long to reply. I have been on a 7 day cruise and they charge way too much for internet access out at sea. Anyway, a lot has been made of Kundalini awakening these days, and there are certainly Hindus who put stock in it. Personally, the people I have met who are doing this are looking for a sensory experience of some sort. They tell me about various ways in which it expresses itself, from feeling a tingling on the crown of their heads to feeling subtle energy channels along their Nadis opening up. Again, all of this is sensory stuff, and to me they are not worth the time. The people I have talked to who do it tell me about things like what “I” felt and how it helped “me” and moved me toward “my” awakening. My sense is that any real awakening has nothing to do with “i” “me” and "mine.’ Now, it does help to open one’s subtle energy pathways, but not for the sake of sensory experience, but real awakenings are a matter of opening he heart, and losing that sense of self and sensory entanglement that seems to accompany a lot of what I hear in regards to Kundalini awakening. The biggest problem with Kundalini is that people do this looking for some sort of gain, and I think you have to lose that desire to gain even in spiritual matters in order to get anywhere spiritually. Personally, and this is just my opinion, I wouldn’t spend my time on it.

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[Kilnadore]

Just noticed these statements -“all non catholics go to hell”. I havent investigated the origins of the discussion within the thread or why that was posted, dont even know if it was posted by some one with a pro or anti catholic perspective, but I find it ridiculously ill informed.

What about the line of thought which can be substantiated in scripture (along the lines of judgement will be dependent upon the talents you are given, words to that effect, sorry for the vagueness but even without accurate scriptural support I intend to make a point), that it is actually harder for catholics/christians in general to get to heaven because we have been given the message, rules and gudelines of the Father, therefore we are more accountable for our transgressions of those guidelines (highest awareness of what pleases and displeases Him!), than the unenlightened non Christian person who hasnt had the opportunity of hearing the message, or having it delivered to them as thoroughly as is the case with being actually born into the faith.

All non catholics go to hell? Is there really someone on here who believes this, because I think this is utterly ridiculous, even if if it were applied to Christians in general. I actually believe Gods message of repentence even at death, which would state that a satanist could be received into heaven with genuine repentence at the moment of death (the chap might have to spend a few hours or millenia in purgatory first!!!)

I dunno, if anyone feels all non catholics go to hell, please feel free to offer a reasonable argument, I doubt if its possible to do so.

 

[Kilnadore]

Hi Sufjon,

Thanks for your thoughts, which Ive eagerly anticipated since Meltzerboy said early in the thread that he looked forward to your response to the original question on the use of the term satanic by a Hindu person.

A delightful insight into the philosophy of kundalini awakenings has been offered here by yourself.

Would it be an unrealistic stretch of the imagination for one to suggest that there is potentially a philosophy of hedonism, or atleast selfishness within the pursuit of the sensory gain that you have intimated is integral to the phenomena of kundalini?

If that is ridiculous feel free to tell me.

Since I posted my original question about the use of the term satanic by Gopi Krishna, my understanding is that it was potentially ignorance on my part of the studying of various belief systems as part of being a Hindu person that had me surprised at the use of the terminology.

I would love to hear your thoughts on the demonic/satanic/frightful experiences which are well cataloged as consequences of the ‘awakenings’ of some individuals, as apart from the sensory experiences within the physical body, eg tingling etc.

Thanks.

 

[JosephFG]

Hi Joseph,

I read a book not long called, “The Gurus, the Young Man and Elder Paisios”. It was both fascinating and frightening at the same time. It was written by a man who kept flip-flopping between Hindu practices and Holy Orthodoxy. He travelled to India to dwell at various ashrams and to be instructed by different Hindu Yogis…then he would return to Mount Athos to receive prayers and spiritual direction from Elder Paisios (who I am sure will be glorified as a Saint in my lifetime). The things that happened to him in India almost destroyed him.

For me, Apostolic Christianity and Hinduism are not compatible…and I am unable to even use Hindu terms to refer to my faith. However, I pray for the conversion of those who are immersed in the Hindu mindset…so that they may discover the truth by the grace of God.

Interestingly, I went to confession yesterday…and I want to tell you that I am deeply sorry if I have offended you in any way. Please forgive me brother.

No harm, no foul, as they say. Thank you for accepting God’s graces of your awareness.

The problem I see with Hindu spirituality is not that it is inauthentic, but that it is authentic. They really do enter into the spiritual realm, which unfortunately has been populated for centuries with demons! The human psyche includes more than the human soul, it also includes angels and demons. And the main problem in deeply exploring it is that if you are not in Christ, you are easy prey. I think that pretty much explains most of what people have been talking about in this thread, and what you talked about above.

The first thing an actual angel says to one they appear to is, “Peace!” Those spiritual encounters that rob you of peace are quite simply and obviously not from God. Witness Muhammad’s first encounter with the demon masquerading as Saint Gabriel – he was seized with fear!

Good talking to you, Mickey. Peace!

 

[Kilnadore]

Well put Joseph, as I said previously, what is being yoked to is the question? If yoking oneself to God provides us with horror, torment, demonic or satanic experiences and mental illness which can take years to recover from as reported by individuals who have had kundalini awakenings, who exactly is this ‘God’ and what is its nature?

The god being refered to in many circumstances is undoubtedly satan or another demon, an astute and deceitful imposter, this is the problem. The fact that blissful and peaceful experiences also occur cannot detract from the horrific aspects, if the consequences were exclusively blissful and peaceful and enlightening and grace filled, then that would be a different matter.

Dont get me wrong, I am not suggesting all Hinduism is satanic, far from it.

 

[Kilnadore]

Hi DaddyGirl,

Thanks for bringing this up. Yoga is one of many ancient practices which are only ‘new’ relatively speaking in their poularity in western culture.

The term New Age in itself is deceiving but established, it has been used for many decades, there is nothing genuinely new in the new age, in this regard it is actually a mis-nomer, but as I have said it is an established as is the new age movement.

Its very wording is a lie and decieves the unsuspecting person, New Age anything should actually be reclassified as “New Age aka Ancient”.

Do not be decieved by the word ‘New’.

 

[Xuan]

Just noticed these statements -“all non catholics go to hell”. I havent investigated the origins of the discussion within the thread or why that was posted, dont even know if it was posted by some one with a pro or anti catholic perspective, but I find it ridiculously ill informed.

What about the line of thought which can be substantiated in scripture (along the lines of judgement will be dependent upon the talents you are given, words to that effect, sorry for the vagueness but even without accurate scriptural support I intend to make a point), that it is actually harder for catholics/christians in general to get to heaven because we have been given the message, rules and gudelines of the Father, therefore we are more accountable for our transgressions of those guidelines (highest awareness of what pleases and displeases Him!), than the unenlightened non Christian person who hasnt had the opportunity of hearing the message, or having it delivered to them as thoroughly as is the case with being actually born into the faith.

All non catholics go to hell? Is there really someone on here who believes this, because I think this is utterly ridiculous, even if if it were applied to Christians in general. I actually believe Gods message of repentence even at death, which would state that a satanist could be received into heaven with genuine repentence at the moment of death (the chap might have to spend a few hours or millenia in purgatory first!!!)

I dunno, if anyone feels all non catholics go to hell, please feel free to offer a reasonable argument, I doubt if its possible to do so.

Hi Kilnadore,

A number of people have made that statement. Pope Boniface VIII proclaimed it in his Papal Bull Unum Sanctum in 1302. This is my understanding of the explanation of such a statement:

Everyone needs to be Baptized in order to get into Heaven. When a person who is not a Christian finds himself in Heaven, it means he was somehow baptized, … probably Baptism of Desire. At any rate, it was a valid Baptism, even though he didn’t know about it.

Baptism makes one a member of the Body of Christ, the Catholic Church. If the person doesn’t know about it, he becomes a member if the Invisible Church (as opposed to the Visible Church), but nevertheless a member of the Catholic Church. Thus, even though many of the people in Heaven didn’t know about it, they were members of the Catholic Church. Thus it can be said that only Catholics go to Heaven.

Granted, saying that non-Catholics cannot go to Heaven is kind of a backdoor way of saying it, but if we look at it in this light, it’s technically true. Now I don’t know if Pope Boniface VIII had all this in mind when he proclaimed it, (I personally don’t think so) but since then the Church has come up with this explanation.

Anyway, that’s my understanding of the way it works.

Xuan

 

[Sufjon]

Thanks for your thoughts, which Ive eagerly anticipated since Meltzerboy said early in the thread that he looked forward to your response to the original question on the use of the term satanic by a Hindu person.

Hi Kilnadore: You would see it used by Hindus who are familiar with western religion, because Hinduism easily adapts and accommodates ideas and concepts from other faiths as being expressions of God in one form or another. There are certainly many Hindus who believe in demons, but my opinion is that these are people who haven’t spent much time on actual scripture. Like any faith, there are many Hindus who practice religion as a social matter.

Would it be an unrealistic stretch of the imagination for one to suggest that there is potentially a philosophy of hedonism, or at least selfishness within the pursuit of the sensory gain that you have intimated is integral to the phenomena of kundalini?

Oh yeah, I do, and I think that one can lose one’s way very quickly on that sort of thing. Some three years ago I went to this gathering where a highly renowned guru from India was doing a Kundalini Awakening session. One thing she had people say as part of the prayer was “give me my Kundalini awakening.” I think that “give me this, give me that, or give me what’s mine” is a great way to take a wrong turn that can tale years to correct. The whole thing just seemed to me to reinforce a sense of self, and that illusion doesn’t need any help, because it’s simply the ego working. If there is such a thing as Satan, it is the ego. If this is true, then he lives in each of us. To find the God in us, we have to get the ego out of the picture.

I would love to hear your thoughts on the demonic/satanic/frightful experiences which are well cataloged as consequences of the ‘awakenings’ of some individuals, as apart from the sensory experiences within the physical body, eg tingling etc.

I will be glad to do that, but I have to run right now to catch up on some things from having been away.

Your friend,
Sufjon

 

[Sufjon]

I

would love to hear your thoughts on the demonic/satanic/frightful experiences which are well cataloged as consequences of the ‘awakenings’ of some individuals, as apart from the sensory experiences within the physical body, eg tingling etc.

Hi again: Sorry for the two part reply. I have not seen any satanic experiences from Kundlini. I have seen people make themselves sick and otherwise really scare themselves. Firstly, this is because they were dabbling in something that normally happens as a side effect of a holy life, that is, an awakening to the presence of God around you and inside of you. Going for an effect or spiritual gain is a self-promoting endeavor. To say that I am seeking a Kundalini awakening is akin to saying that I am looking to advance to a higher spiritual level. While this may sound honest and noble, it is really another game of the ego, because the only spiritual ground to be had is right were we are, with all of our imperfections, problems, shortcomings and whatnot. The place where we are is our spiritual ground, and glorious awakenings happen when we reach the point where we seek nothing more. To awaken a powerful energy within oneself without having come to such a requisite position is to invite trouble. That is what happens to these people, and yes I have seen them throw up, have tremors and furthermore I have heard of them having frightful visions, although have not witnessed that one personally.

If we see God in those around us, and in ourselves, we will eventually have an awakening similar but more profound than what these people are seeking, however, we will be spiritually and mentally prepared. At this level, one is not frightened by demons or put off by physical discomfort. One who has reached come to that place, knows that they belong only to God, and they fear nothing.

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[Mickey]

Hi again: Sorry for the two part reply. I have not seen any satanic experiences from Kundlini. I have seen people make themselves sick and otherwise really scare themselves. Firstly, this is because they were dabbling in something that normally happens as a side effect of a holy life, that is, an awakening to the presence of God around you and inside of you. Going for an effect or spiritual gain is a self-promoting endeavor. To say that I am seeking a Kundalini awakening is akin to saying that I am looking to advance to a higher spiritual level. While this may sound honest and noble, it is really another game of the ego, because the only spiritual ground to be had is right were we are, with all of our imperfections, problems, shortcomings and whatnot. The place where we are is our spiritual ground, and glorious awakenings happen when we reach the point where we seek nothing more. To awaken a powerful energy within oneself without having come to such a requisite position is to invite trouble. That is what happens to these people, and yes I have seen them throw up, have tremors and furthermore I have heard of them having frightful visions, although have not witnessed that one personally.

If we see God in those around us, and in ourselves, we will eventually have an awakening similar but more profound than what these people are seeking, however, we will be spiritually and mentally prepared. At this level, one is not frightened by demons or put off by physical discomfort. One who has reached come to that place, knows that they belong only to God, and they fear nothing.

Your friend
Sufjon

Wonderful post. You seem to have very good understanding of monastic-like asceticism.

 

[Sufjon]

Wonderful post. You seem to have very good understanding of monastic-like asceticism.

Thanks for the kind words Mickey!

Your friend,
Sufjon

 

[rinnie]

My big question here I would like to address to Catholic’s. And that question would be WHY?

What is it that you feel Christ left out in his Church that you feel you could receive outside of his Church.

I mean he gave us Scripture, Oral Tradition, he gave us Teachers. He gave us the Sacraments. He gave us Prayers, he gave us others. I mean he gave us the Living Christ in the Eucharist here on earth.

And if your answer is nothing, then why or what are you searching for then?

I mean you have God in his CHURCH ALIVE here today. You have the Holy Spirit waiting with open arms waiting for you to pray for more Grace. Wanting to give you SO MUCH MORE, and waiting for you to just ask.