Hispanics and Our Lady of Guadalupe?

[Arlene_Alice]

Thanks RomanRyan:

You are VERY honest…and I appreciate your candor about the fact that Hispanics look to their combined poverty to vote for a Party that tells them that they are for the poor…and promise them two chickens in every pot. Yet it is the same Party that supports abortion… allowing a Hispanic mother to violate God’s law to murder her unwanted child.

The same for the Blacks…their babies are being murdered in the womb at a disproportionate rate to whites. Is that a way to fight poverty? Murder your children?

The abortion industry promised these same women that abortion will alleviate their poverty? It hasn’t! The abortion industry lies and lies and lies.

I know that Hispanic clergy don’t talk about abortion. I’ve approached a couple. They say…too controversial. What?

Please do your part to be the Voice of the Unborn in your Hispanic community. I believe that is what Jesus and Mary is calling us to do at this tragic time in history.

 

[RomanRyan1088]

Dear Alice
Thanks for your Honest comment, it was really nice. You see I have an Idea why the priest don't talk about it here. It's really not necesarry. You see, im in Texas, and im REALLY down south. And when i've talked about Abortion to people, their like " I would Never Kill my Baby", and im sure the priest has heard the same, so therefore, he doesn't believe it's necessary, because people were raised here knowing it was wrong. I don't even know of any Abortion Clinics here! But when I go to confession, he lets you ask him questions, and i'll ask him why he doesn't talk about abortion.

 

[JCPhoenix]

RomanRyan1088:

Lol, you might find this funny, but i an Mexican, but don’t speak spanish fluently. I understand your post, it’s just i cant write you back in spanish. I just wish that there were more Hispanics who understood the teaching of the church.

y
"Me alegro de que estés participando en este foro. Me da mucho gusto de que otros hispanos tomen la iniciativa de aprender a defender su fé y los derechos humanos, comenzando con el derecho a la vida.

Tu hermano en Cristo,

Jorge."

Lo siento, no he hablado o escrito en espanol desde mucho tiempo, pero queria decir que no este’ Mexicano o Puertoriqueno…aunque entiendo mucho!

Esta bien que hay hispanohablantes en este foro y you creo debe ser mas!

Este polemico es MUY IMPORTANTE, pero es dificil educar genge en general, especialmente cuando la gente esten en una pais extrana y cuando, para algunos, tienen por la primera vez, una techo sobre las cabezas, paredes, comida bastante…etc. Algunos immigrantes (?) fueran bien pobres en su paises nativas (?). Cuando esos personas entren EEUU, una pais muy rica, es facil …como se dice…to get caught up in the things they’ve finally been able to achieve.

Lo siento…lo que pasa es que no tengo las palabras para discutir este en espanol, y no se html muy bien!

Pero me cae bien la gente de Mexico (especialmente) porque de mi experencia alla’. Son simpaticos, son amables, son religiosas/os tambien. Tienen respecto para Nuestra Senora y Jesus, Y el Padre y Espiriu Sanctus. Es muy bonita. Simplemente necesitan mas oraciones para que puedan entender polemicas sobre los ninos.

 

[Antonio_B]

I think I can try to give an intelligent reply to this comment. I am Hispanic, originally from Costa Rica but living in this country since 1965.

Indeed it is true that most Hispanics either vote for the Democratic Party or feel simpatía for it. There are several reasons for that: 1. Most Hispanics bought into the idea that the Democrats are for the poor, good economic conditions, good education, care for the needs of the poor, etc, etc. 2) Most Hispanics still believe that Republicans only care about the rich, corporations and of course, let us not forget, ruining the environment, because as you all know, Bush gets up every morning asking himself this question, “How could I possibly ruin the environment today? How could I possibly create a bit more smog in cities and cut a few more trees?” 3) The Republican Party has failed miserably to convinced Hispanics that one can be a good Hispanic and a good Republican. 4) When Democratic candidates for office, whether running for national or local office, they always appeal to Hispanic voters by promising to “open” the borders, as if they were closed, and also tempting Hispanics with the “Nanny State,” and most Hispanics buy into those ideas. 5) So-called Hispanic Catholics politicians will never touch the issue of abortion and run their campaigns with that issue. They know that if they were to be truthful in their campaigns and tell Hispanics the “truth,” that they believe in abortion, they simply would not get the Hispanic vote. 6. If Hispanics ask a Democrat running for office, “what about Mr. Bush’s policies?” They might get this answer, “Bush hates the poor, loves corporations, does not care for social justice and favors unjustified wars!” NEVER, will a Democrat tell Hispanics that Bush also favors protection of the unborn.

Antonio B

 

[Arlene_Alice]

Although I do not do sidewalk counseling, [Some people are cut out for sidewalk counseling - I’m not one of them], I do picket with graphic abortion photographs in front of abortionist’s offices, homes, and also pro-abort legislator’s offices. Our pro-life groups is currently picketing the home of an Eastern Indian doctor who has 5 abortion clinics in the Chicago area, and has 10 malpractice suits against him.

I speak with sidewalk counselors and they tell me that they are seeing more and more Hispanic and Polish women come in to these clinics for abortions. Some have rosaries dangling from their windshield - and yet, they choose to murder their child. !!

I don’t have current statistics., but in l994, 69,000 abortions were performed on Hispanic women in US clinics. I’m sure that rate has increased by now.

The secondary tragedy to these statistics is that not only is this mother complicit in the murder of her child, but she is automatically excommunicated from her union with God. Certainly sincere remorse, penance and absolution are necessary to undo this deed - but I wonder if women even know this? If our pastors are not speaking about this issue from the pulpits…or even providing counseling and literature about this fact in their churches, how will these women know?

 

[RomanRyan1088]

OK, WHY ARE YOU ONLY POINTING OUT HISPANICS!? Why don’t you talk about some things that whites do wrong!. Im sorry, but i don’t like the fact that you are throwing out all these statistics, i feel like you are belittling us. please stop. I know it is the truth, but gosh, i already said why hispanics do this. Why don’t you talk about the Russians death rate higher that their birth rate due to abortions. Or the Abortion boat that goes to Ireland, and takes mothers to another country to KILL their babies!

 

[Chaffa55]

I’d like to make some points about this issue. In my opinion, many hispanics are attracted to and influenced by civil rights organizations such as the League of United Latin American Citizens (LULAC) and the Mexican American Leagal Defense Fund (MALDEF). These are civil rights organizations; they have a right to exist, and they do have some important platforms. However, I don’t believe abortion matters play a part in the issues they support.

These organizations (and other such civil rights organizations) are large, so they have power and influence; the Democrats have courted them, so as to win elections. We sadly know where the Democrats stand on abortion…

As a result of these courtships, the organizations tend to endorse Democratic candidates, and many hispanic voters follow their lead. Perhaps these strategies could help:

1. MALDEF, LULAC and other such organizations could be challenged and influenced on the abortion issue, by their membership and from the outside. How can they be civil rights organizations if they disregard the rights of the unborn?
2. Pastors, deacons and lay church leaders in hispanic communities need to speak up.
3. Hispanic civic leaders who are pro-life need to make their voices heard as well.

Bottom line: I think it’s an education issue. Hispanic Catholics (and all voters, for that matter) need to be shown the connection between their votes and abortion policies.

 

[Arlene_Alice]

RomanRyan:

I think I have already made it clear that when I started this thread it was not with anti-Hispanic or racial intent. I’ve brought up other races and groups of people in the debate. Calm down and understand the reason for my inquiry.

Our Lady of Guadalupe has a profound symbolic meaning for Latinos. I am not the only one who has questioned the vast dichotomy between reverence to Our Lady and the existing voting and abortion practices in the Latino communities.

Across the Board, we should also question the vast dichotomy between the practice of receiving the Body, Blood Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ in Holy Communion, and then turning around and committing mortal/grevious sins, including voting for pro-abort Democrats and Republicans.

I believe the Bishops are now starting to address this “crisis” in our Catholic consciences and open denial of our faith. Bishop Sheridan is asking those who vote for pro-abort candidates in his Diocese to refrain from receiving Holy Communion. The message is clear: You do not receive Communion while in the state of grevious mortal sin. That applies to all races, peoples, groups, etc.

Chaffa 55 has hit the nail on the head. Thanks!

 

[quijote]

nordskoven:

There are two Mexico’s, the Mexico of Catholicism; and Freemason Mexico which outlawed and suppressed much Catholicism and her clerics.

Freemasonary in Mexico has subsided considerably since the early and mid 20th century. However, it was very strong back then and the fruits of it are still apperant in Mexico.

Mexican culture is, for the most part, only marginally Catholic as was more pronounced until the NAFTA Treaty concessions. After NAFTA, Catholic schools were, per my understanding, illegal. Seminaries were illegal in Mexico.

I would not say “marginally” Catholic but “Culturally” Catholic. Everything in Mexico revolves around the Catholic Church. A favorite saying of atheist in Mexico is “I’m an atheist but for the grace of God” (loosely translated).

The history of the Church and the Mexican Government is rocky. Back in the constitution of 1857, the Church lost all of its properties and the government took them. This continued, in one form or another until recently. I think it was during the 90’s (by this time we had moved to the US) when priests were allowed to wear their roman collars in public and the government reestablished relations with the Vatican. It’s a long, hard history.

Seminaries and catholic schools were not illegal in Mexico, but had a weird status. The churches and schools were the property of the Church but only with the consent of the Government (something like that).

cheers.

 

[quijote]

JCPhoenix:

1. The Mexican constitution does not name the seperation of church and state, but instead, has passed a law that church and state cannot mix. The Mexican president cannot be seen worshiping in any way or for standing for any particular faith.

The first Mexican president to attend Church while president (for a long, long time) was Vicente Fox, who prostrated himself at the Basilica of Guadalupe to give thanks for his win…man, was the PRI upset about that.

Cheers.

 

[quijote]

Antonio B:

I think I can try to give an intelligent reply to this comment. I am Hispanic, originally from Costa Rica but living in this country since 1965.

All right Tico!!!

I agree whole hardly with Antonio. I would add also that many new immigrants take their “political cues” from already established Hispanics. So the vicious cycle continues.

Also, many universities where Hispanics attend are quite liberal on their views. I remember the time my cousins and I argued about the border patrol. Two of my cousins (born in the US) complained who the BP was racist to “our people” my brother (who at a time was a BP agent) and I (both born and raised in Mexico) could not believe our ears. Since when did those “wet backs” (as they used to call “them”) become “their people”? When they went to college and were taught to think that way from their professors.

Cheers.

 

[quijote]

Arlene Alice:

I speak with sidewalk counselors and they tell me that they are seeing more and more Hispanic and Polish women come in to these clinics for abortions. Some have rosaries dangling from their windshield - and yet, they choose to murder their child. !!

I admire the work you do and pray that you continue to do it.

I think those Hispanic women (like certain politicians runing for the presidency whom remain unnamed) are very poorly catechized and easily (and convininetly) take to cafeteria Catholicism.

Hispanics hang rosaries on their windshields as a cultural identification (my wife -who is white- won’t allow me to do it ).

We need to pray to our Lady of Guadalupe to convert those hearts.

Cheers.

 

[quijote]

RomanRyan1088:

OK, WHY ARE YOU ONLY POINTING OUT HISPANICS!? Why don’t you talk about some things that whites do wrong!. Im sorry, but i don’t like the fact that you are throwing out all these statistics, i feel like you are belittling us. please stop. I know it is the truth, but gosh, i already said why hispanics do this. Why don’t you talk about the Russians death rate higher that their birth rate due to abortions. Or the Abortion boat that goes to Ireland, and takes mothers to another country to KILL their babies!

Hey, tranquilo hombre. DOn’t take it personally .

If you make too much noise, they’ll call “la migra” on us, man

cheers.

 

[quijote]

RomanRyan1088:

WOW, THAT REALLY SOUNDS RACIST. BUT I WILL ANSWER YOUR QUESTION ANYWAY, MANY HISPANICS AND BLACKS LIVE IN POVERTY, SO THEREFORE, THEY VOTE VOR ANYONE THAT IS FOR THE “PEOPLE”, WHICH IS WHAT MANY CALL DEMOCRATS. TO SAY THAT HISPANICS AND BLACKS ARE THE ONLY ONES WHO ARE PRO-ABORT, IS REALLY WRONG.

A quick correction, many hispanics and blacks who live in poverty vote for anyone who “says” they are for the “people”. As the Democrats have shown, they like to say they are for the people, but really have done little to help the poor (whether minorities or not).

Cheers.

 

[quijote]

Delgadoajj:

Unlike the others that have posted on this thread, I am hispanic. I am not from Mexico, I am from Puerto Rico.

It’s o.k. Nobody is perfect.

I can say that Arlene Alice has hit the nail on the head. I also ask myself the same question every day: “How can so many hispanic people in America, who consider themselves catholic, vote for pro-abortion candidates?”. I simply cannot, in my mind, understand the reasoning behind this.

Yo tambie’n (me too)

I have been in many discussions with fellow catholic hispanics about this issue (both legal and illegal). They try to rationalize that the republican candidates are somehow “out to get them”. They try to put things like the economy, jobs, the war in Iraq, the death penalty, etc., etc. before moral issues such as abortion. This , to me, seems so backwards and against the Magisterium, that it makes my head spin. It’s like talking to a brick wall.

Amen! I think some of them have fallen to the idea of moral equivalence between, for example, the war vs. abortion: “abortion kills, but Bush has killed many innocents Iraqis during the war”. Very frustrating.

I agree with some of the explanations previously posted, and have taken it upon myself to become better informed and try to explain to my hispanic brothers and sisters how wrong their thinking is. I really believe it has to do with pure ignorance, paranoia, and to some extent, selfishness. Hispanic’s prioritization of their value system is not in line with the Church’s mandate, most of the time, and this really frustrates me. :tsktsk:

There are too many hispanics also that fraudelently appear as victims in order to gain piety, attention, and $$$. :crying: I know this is hard language, but it’s the truth. Of course, there are many valid cases where injustices exist, and these must be eliminated, but by far, the biggest injustice in our society is abortion. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. Let’s work together to eliminate abortion, and then we’ll move on to attacking the next social injustice.

Jorge.

 

[Arlene_Alice]

Bush has killed a lot of Iraquis during the war…or did the Coalition Army kill these people? Do you know where the Catholic Church stands on a justifiable war?

How many innocent victims did Saddam and his terrorists kill?
Bush also sent people to their deaths by capital punishment when he was Governor of Texas. Do you know where the Catholic Church stands on capital punishment? Until the Pope’s recent statement placing a moratorium on the death penalty, the Church HAS ALWAYS taught that the State has the right to administer capital punishment, when there is no doubt of the guilt.

Read: www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/sapital_punishment.htm

Read about the recent insult to a Mexican soldier’s funeral by President Vincente Fox:

worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39511
Is there any outrage from American Hispanics?

Arlene Alice
Vote Life America !

 

[quijote]

Arlene Alice:

Bush has killed a lot of Iraquis during the war…or did the Coalition Army kill these people? Do you know where the Catholic Church stands on a justifiable war?

Yes, I do know the Church’s stand on what a “Just war” is. If I recall correctly, there were a couple of issues of The Catholic Register dedicated on whether it was or not (with good, honest theologians falling on both sides).

Bush is not “killing innocent Iraqis”. Hussein went out of his way to torture and kill his people. Civilian casulaties occur when the coalition forces fight the insurgents. Very tragic. Perhaps if the insurgents would not hide among civilians.

How many innocent victims did Saddam and his terrorists kill?

Hundreds of thousand? something like that.

Bush also sent people to their deaths by capital punishment when he was Governor of Texas.

Not true. Those people were sentenced to death by a Judge and Jury. Bush could have only commuted the death sentence to life in prison.

Do you know where the Catholic Church stands on capital punishment?

Yes I do.

Until the Pope’s recent statement placing a moratorium on the death penalty, the Church HAS ALWAYS taught that the State has the right to administer capital punishment, when there is no doubt of the guilt.

Agreed.

Read about the recent insult to a Mexican soldier’s funeral by President Vincente Fox:

worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39511
Is there any outrage from American Hispanics?

Arlene Alice
Vote Life America !

I did. Mexico has been a “Pacifist” country for many years. Also, Mexico has very strict rules about foreign soldiers coming into the country with “live” weapons. Specially from the U.S. (for obvious reasons). A sad incident.

Cheers.

 

[Antonio_B]

Quijote,

 Have you seen the Spanish media on the issue of immigration? It does not help that they presume anyone who criticizes anything either Hispanic or Mexican is simply a racist. That's bad news since Spanish T.V. and radio reach millions of Hispanics and many minds are molded that way.

Sí, soy the Costa Rica y viajo allá casi todos los años pero esta vez visité las Cavernas de Carlsbad y al Gran Cañón.

Translation for those who do not speak Spanish: Yes, I’m from Costa Rica and I go there almost every year but this time I went to the Carlsbad Caverns and to the Grand Canyon.

¡Viva Cristo Rey y Nuestra Señora de Guadalupe, Emperatríz de Las Américas!

Long Live Christ the King and Our Lady of Guadalupe, Empress of the Americas!

Antonio

 

[quijote]

Antonio,

!Que’ la’stima para Costa Rica y Me’xico en la Libertadores!

BTW, how do you type accents? I’ve never been able to figure it out.

I don’t have cable, so I don’t get to watch Univision nor Telemundo. However, it seems that the Spanish speaking channels in the US show the worst of all LatinAmerican TV (with the exception of futbol). So many soapoperas and entertainment shows and not enough educational programs. I do agree that the Spanish channels (like the regular media) tend to have a bious: pro-immigration, pro-Hispanic no matter what.

We were the last of the family to leave Mexico (Me’xico Lindo y querido, si muero lejos de ti) so we don’t go back very often. My family lives in the Rio Grande Valley of TExas which is just North of the Mexican Border, and they do cross the border at least once a week. However, when I think of Me’xico I think of central Me’xico.

Saludos

 

[Antonio_B]

Quijote,

The accents should not be a big problem. My operating system is Windows XP and it comes with a language program. I activated the Spanish language on it and whenever I need accents I go from “E” for English to “ES” for Spanish. Once there, anytime I type an accent it appears readily on my screen.

Yes, unfortunately the Spanish media, particularly Univisión and Telemundo play the “race card” too often.

My wife is from Mexico and I’ve been there several times to Rosarito, Ensenada, Tijuana, Puebla, Mexico City, and Cuernavaca. I would love to visit Guadalajara, Puerto Vallarta and the south of Mexico since I understand it is very green. We were in Mexico City in 1979 when John Paul II visited Mexico for the first time.

Have you ever heard that famous Mexican saying, “¡Pobre Méjico, tan lejos de Dios, tan cerca de los Estados Unidos!”

“Poor Mexico, so far away from God so close to the United States!” The “historical context” of such a saying was the Mexican conflict between the U.S. and Mexico when Mexico lost a lot of its northern territory to the U.S.

By the way, I just traveled to the Carlsbad Caverns in New Mexico but in order to go there we passed by El Paso Texas and saw from a distance Ciudad Juárez.

Antonio