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CWBetts
Guest
What is your obsession with Google? Approxomitely 98% of websites are not reputable for scholarship
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Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
Isn’t love of Krishna shirk, even for Ahmadis ? The trouble with that, is that it requires Muslims to reduce Krishna from what he is to his worshippers - which amounts to loving a non-existent, because Islamified, Krishna.
This is like Hindu reverence for the BVM - it’s friendly, but at the cost of ignoring what makes her religiously significant. If religious figures have to be emptied of the content they have in their own religions, so as to make palatable to people of other other religions, they become meaningless.One has to ask whether inter-religious friendliness based on this emptying-out of meaning is not in fact based on a form of arrogant self-assertion.
If Krishna is not what his worshippers think he is, he is nothing; if Mary is not truly the Mother of God, she is nothing.If that sounds like what James Hitchcock wrote in 1979 in “Catholicism confronts Modernity”, that’s because I’m echoing him
I forgot that Jesus was brought up in Tibet - that must have been when he was not being educated in Egypt…
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paarsurrey
Guest
Gottle of Geer; 4459427:
It would be out of topic to discuss here; a separate thread could be created if you so desire.
My submission is that we don’t judge a Messenger Prophet of GodAllahYHWH from what the followers or worshippers believe about them. First they don’t accept rather oppose a Messenger Prophet but when he dies or disappears from the scene; then they attach things about them which they never said about themselves. The same people weave myths around a Messenger Prophet.
Now take the case of Jesus; it would be easier to understand as we are on a Catholic discussion forum. Jesus was a poor man born of a poor woman; God selected and appointed him as the Messenger Prophet of the Jewish people. They denied him for nothing. He did not harm them in any way; he was an innocent man; yet they put him on the Cross and tortured him for nothing.
It is another story that God; who always helps His Messengers Prophets, He saved his life against all odds. Jesus had to migrate to India along with Mary to spread his teachings to the Lost Tribes of the House of Israel, who were settled their in large numbers.
Now in the absence of Jesus from Judea; here comes an arch enemy of Jesus and of his poor disciples, by the name Saul or Paul; and carves a deity out of him. Paul makes him Son of God and God.
My love of Jesus, in my opinion, is no less than other. My love is for the real man Jesus and a real woman Mary his mother. They were humans with a lot of Charisma. Paul and his followers hid the real and charismatic Jesus and Mary behind a mountain of a myth, they never asked for.
So the concepts of followers/worshippers or myth makers are no standard for judging the Principal Masters.
My love of Jesus and Mary is as devoid of Shirk as it is for Buddha and Krishna; it is based on their receiving Revelation from GodAllahParmesherYHWH.
If you think it necessary; I would start a new thread on this topic. Thanks for your valuable (name removed by moderator)ut in the thread.
Regards
Hi
It would be out of topic to discuss here; a separate thread could be created if you so desire.
My submission is that we don’t judge a Messenger Prophet of GodAllahYHWH from what the followers or worshippers believe about them. First they don’t accept rather oppose a Messenger Prophet but when he dies or disappears from the scene; then they attach things about them which they never said about themselves. The same people weave myths around a Messenger Prophet.
Now take the case of Jesus; it would be easier to understand as we are on a Catholic discussion forum. Jesus was a poor man born of a poor woman; God selected and appointed him as the Messenger Prophet of the Jewish people. They denied him for nothing. He did not harm them in any way; he was an innocent man; yet they put him on the Cross and tortured him for nothing.
It is another story that God; who always helps His Messengers Prophets, He saved his life against all odds. Jesus had to migrate to India along with Mary to spread his teachings to the Lost Tribes of the House of Israel, who were settled their in large numbers.
Now in the absence of Jesus from Judea; here comes an arch enemy of Jesus and of his poor disciples, by the name Saul or Paul; and carves a deity out of him. Paul makes him Son of God and God.
My love of Jesus, in my opinion, is no less than other. My love is for the real man Jesus and a real woman Mary his mother. They were humans with a lot of Charisma. Paul and his followers hid the real and charismatic Jesus and Mary behind a mountain of a myth, they never asked for.
So the concepts of followers/worshippers or myth makers are no standard for judging the Principal Masters.
My love of Jesus and Mary is as devoid of Shirk as it is for Buddha and Krishna; it is based on their receiving Revelation from GodAllahParmesherYHWH.
If you think it necessary; I would start a new thread on this topic. Thanks for your valuable (name removed by moderator)ut in the thread.
Regards
B
benedictus2
Guest
Here is an entry on Wikipedia on Nicholas Notovitch from whose work Holger Kersten based his book and his “research”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Notovitch
And here is another one
http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/scanned/notovitch.htm
PLEASE READ!
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Freshman88
Guest
Most intellectually dishonest thread ever!
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benedictus2
Guest
I don’t think she is being dishonest. I think she totally believes the lies. TOTALLY DELUDED MORE LIKE IT.
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dawid
Guest
The Gospels and Paul’s letters are part of the body of evidence concerned with your claims, so although you may not be interested in Paul, he cannot be discarded and his integrity should be scrutinised.
We do!
The Christ rose from the dead and appeared before many people before he ascended into Heaven.
Tradition has it that Mary was assumed into Heaven
Your ignorance of these points can be resolved by reading the Gospels and other books of the New Testament.
There are many other historical sources that affirm the books of the New Testament, including those that are not of European origin eg, the Talmud, Josephus, etc.
Your claim is therefore false!
I’m afraid your assertions fails to meet any standard of scientific or logical reasoning.
You say that you won’t “start Paul bashing”, but you just have done so!
You have failed to provide any coherent train of thought that withstands scrutiny.
I
inJESUS
Guest
Muslims and Mormons are the biggest fans of impossible conspiracy theories. It’s interesting to see what absurdities a man is willing to believe in order to deny previous scriptures and history to follow one man who encountered a “spirit”. Sad but amazing.
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paarsurrey
Guest
cthulhubryan; 4458659:
I think, please don’t mind, it is a wild accusation not suitable for a Catholic to speak about Jesus an innocent man Messenger; a Muslim cannot even think of saying such words even in supposition. One can find other ways to express one’s thoughts with a little practice. Well, that is your own internal matter; I won’t say more about it.
Coming to the topic, Jesus talked in parables; he was used to it, which is a way to understand and make understand things spiritually among all Messengers. People who don’t understand spiritual matters take them literally and physically and sometimes or most of the times are mislead. If they have developed the faculty of understanding things rationally they would understand things better with a little thought. No fault of the Master but of the pupil; if he does not understand.
Jesus said:
Matthew 10:
5 These twelve Jesus sent: commanding them, saying: Go ye not into the way of the Gentiles, and into the city of the Samaritans enter ye not.
6 But go ye rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Matthew 13:
57 ************ But Jesus said to them: A prophet is not without honor, save in his own country, and in his own house.
John 10
16 And other sheep I have, that are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice, and there shall be one fold and one shepherd.
So clearly Jesus was disgusted with the two tribes of Israel in Judea, who did not listen to his message from GodAllahParmesherYHWH. He hinted he would go to the other Lost Tribes of Israel and spread the message in them and they would accept him a true Messenger of God. He knew that the period of tribulations would be over; and that is what he prayed for all along. He was confident of his survival.
By going personally to Persia, Afghanistan, North of Pakistan, Kashmir, Tibet and India Jesus proved what he meant the message in the above verses. One must listen to Jesus what he said and what he actually did. One should not pay any attention, in my opinion, to things mythical which got spread when he was absent from Judea on his journey to East. One who loves Jesus and Mary should focus on Acts of Jesus.
I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna
Thanks
Hi
I think, please don’t mind, it is a wild accusation not suitable for a Catholic to speak about Jesus an innocent man Messenger; a Muslim cannot even think of saying such words even in supposition. One can find other ways to express one’s thoughts with a little practice. Well, that is your own internal matter; I won’t say more about it.
Coming to the topic, Jesus talked in parables; he was used to it, which is a way to understand and make understand things spiritually among all Messengers. People who don’t understand spiritual matters take them literally and physically and sometimes or most of the times are mislead. If they have developed the faculty of understanding things rationally they would understand things better with a little thought. No fault of the Master but of the pupil; if he does not understand.
Jesus said:
Matthew 10:
5 These twelve Jesus sent: commanding them, saying: Go ye not into the way of the Gentiles, and into the city of the Samaritans enter ye not.
6 But go ye rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Matthew 13:
57 ************ But Jesus said to them: A prophet is not without honor, save in his own country, and in his own house.
John 10
16 And other sheep I have, that are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice, and there shall be one fold and one shepherd.
So clearly Jesus was disgusted with the two tribes of Israel in Judea, who did not listen to his message from GodAllahParmesherYHWH. He hinted he would go to the other Lost Tribes of Israel and spread the message in them and they would accept him a true Messenger of God. He knew that the period of tribulations would be over; and that is what he prayed for all along. He was confident of his survival.
By going personally to Persia, Afghanistan, North of Pakistan, Kashmir, Tibet and India Jesus proved what he meant the message in the above verses. One must listen to Jesus what he said and what he actually did. One should not pay any attention, in my opinion, to things mythical which got spread when he was absent from Judea on his journey to East. One who loves Jesus and Mary should focus on Acts of Jesus.
I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna
Thanks
P
paarsurrey
Guest
cthulhubryan; 4458659:
I think, please don’t mind, it is a wild accusation not suitable for a Catholic to speak about Jesus an innocent man Messenger; a Muslim cannot even think of saying such words even in supposition. One can find other ways to express one’s thoughts with a little practice. Well, that is your own internal matter; I won’t say more about it.
Coming to the topic, Jesus talked in parables; he was used to it, which is a way to understand and make understand things spiritually among all Messengers. People who don’t understand spiritual matters take them literally and physically and sometimes or most of the times are mislead. If they have developed the faculty of understanding things rationally they would understand things better with a little thought. No fault of the Master but of the pupil; if he does not understand.
Jesus said:
Matthew 10:
5 These twelve Jesus sent: commanding them, saying: Go ye not into the way of the Gentiles, and into the city of the Samaritans enter ye not.
6 But go ye rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Matthew 13:
57 ************ But Jesus said to them: A prophet is not without honor, save in his own country, and in his own house.
John 10
16 And other sheep I have, that are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice, and there shall be one fold and one shepherd.
So clearly Jesus was disgusted with the two tribes of Israel in Judea, who did not listen to his message from GodAllahParmesherYHWH. He hinted he would go to the other Lost Tribes of Israel and spread the message in them and they would accept him a true Messenger of God. He knew that the period of tribulations would be over; and that is what he prayed for all along. He was confident of his survival.
By going personally to Persia, Afghanistan, North of Pakistan, Kashmir, Tibet and India Jesus proved what he meant the message in the above verses. One must listen to Jesus what he said and what he actually did. One should not pay any attention, in my opinion, to things mythical which got spread when he was absent from Judea on his journey to East. One who loves Jesus and Mary should focus on Acts of Jesus.
I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna
Thanks
Hi
I think, please don’t mind, it is a wild accusation not suitable for a Catholic to speak about Jesus an innocent man Messenger; a Muslim cannot even think of saying such words even in supposition. One can find other ways to express one’s thoughts with a little practice. Well, that is your own internal matter; I won’t say more about it.
Coming to the topic, Jesus talked in parables; he was used to it, which is a way to understand and make understand things spiritually among all Messengers. People who don’t understand spiritual matters take them literally and physically and sometimes or most of the times are mislead. If they have developed the faculty of understanding things rationally they would understand things better with a little thought. No fault of the Master but of the pupil; if he does not understand.
Jesus said:
Matthew 10:
5 These twelve Jesus sent: commanding them, saying: Go ye not into the way of the Gentiles, and into the city of the Samaritans enter ye not.
6 But go ye rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Matthew 13:
57 ************ But Jesus said to them: A prophet is not without honor, save in his own country, and in his own house.
John 10
16 And other sheep I have, that are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice, and there shall be one fold and one shepherd.
So clearly Jesus was disgusted with the two tribes of Israel in Judea, who did not listen to his message from GodAllahParmesherYHWH. He hinted he would go to the other Lost Tribes of Israel and spread the message in them and they would accept him a true Messenger of God. He knew that the period of tribulations would be over; and that is what he prayed for all along. He was confident of his survival.
By going personally to Persia, Afghanistan, North of Pakistan, Kashmir, Tibet and India Jesus proved what he meant the message in the above verses. One must listen to Jesus what he said and what he actually did. One should not pay any attention, in my opinion, to things mythical which got spread when he was absent from Judea on his journey to East. One who loves Jesus and Mary should focus on Acts of Jesus.
I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna
Thanks
B
bpbasilphx
Guest
Clever Paul, in my opinion, carved mythical ChristianGod out of Jesus, in his absence, when Jesus migrated from Judea and went on his sojourn to Persia, Afghanistan, NWFP, the Punjab, Kashmir, Tibet and India to save his life at hand of the persecuting and cruel Jews and to complete his mission set out for him by his GodAllahParmesherYHWH.
**Your opinion doesn’t matter since nothing you said happened.
I bear witness there is NO GOD but Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and Jesus is God Incarnate risen from the dead.**
**Your opinion doesn’t matter since nothing you said happened.
I bear witness there is NO GOD but Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and Jesus is God Incarnate risen from the dead.**
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benedictus2
Guest
bpbasilphx;4461901 [B said:
.
But my friend, you are forgetting that paarsurrey does not deal in facts.
You can say that till your black and blue, you can cite historical evidence, but believe you me it will not make one iota of difference. She has decided that the lie is a truth and that is that
J
JLSamuel818
Guest
Understand it is very difficult to accept the truth after your whole life you’ve been lied to.
Still, he shall bear witness and be judged before the Lord after his last breath. There he will know the Truth, and the Truth he will finally understand. Till then, it’s best to pray for his soul that he is converted before the day of his judgment.
With love and grace,
_[Samuel]
Still, he shall bear witness and be judged before the Lord after his last breath. There he will know the Truth, and the Truth he will finally understand. Till then, it’s best to pray for his soul that he is converted before the day of his judgment.
With love and grace,
_[Samuel]
C
cthulhubryan
Guest
First of all, I am not yet blessed to be Catholic. Second of all, you are dodging the issue. Jesus cannot be simply a man Messenger. He claimed to be God. Either he was or he was not.
Either he died on the Cross or he didn’t. To say that he wasn’t crucified and then died and was buried is to say he never rose again. To say that is to invalidate all that He said in His ministry.
Fundamentalist exegesis leads to error which can lead to Death.
John 10:17 “The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again”
So Jesus is pre-acknowledging that he will die and be raised again. He will NOT live past the cross as a mortal man.
Your quote from Matthew comes at the very beginning of Jesus’ public ministry. It occurs after He first gathers the twelve. If you read later in Matthew you get the great commission
Matthew 28:19 “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”
Jesus did NOT go there. The scriptures tell us that he DIED as he said he would. He was then ressurected and was with the disciples a short while and then returned to heaven, where He is to this very day.
The only mythical stuff presented here is this groundless idea that He went east. Now the east surely knew of him as the wise men returned to their homes, but Jesus did not go there.
Agreed, the Acts of Jesus are in the Bible and in His Bride the Church. Not in the fevered imaginations of some who came later.
It seems to me that either you are seriously lost to Error, in which case we will all pray for you, or else you are simply going on with what reason and intelligence must tell you is malarky just to aggravate people, in which case I must urge that all ignore you untill you wish to discuss something rational.
Pax,
Bryan
K
KingAlfred
Guest
“Clever Paul, in my opinion, carved mythical ChristianGod out of Jesus, in his absence, when Jesus migrated from Judea and went on his sojourn to Persia, Afghanistan, NWFP, the Punjab, Kashmir, Tibet and India to save his life at hand of the persecuting and cruel Jews and to complete his mission set out for him by his GodAllahParmesherYHWH.”
I heard this before, and didn’t believe it then. I still don’t. Western Man was made great by Christianity. Without it, he is nothing.
I heard this before, and didn’t believe it then. I still don’t. Western Man was made great by Christianity. Without it, he is nothing.
J
JLSamuel818
Guest
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paarsurrey
Guest
cthulhubryan; 4458659:
I thank everybody who has resolved to pray for me; and pray you must. This is one thing which **Second Coming **1835-1908 has emphasized very much. Also kindly pray for yourselves; you also need prayers as I do. There is no harm in praying.
Now coming to the topic; it is always like this that when people wrong and are mislead GodAllahParmesherYHWH selects from amongst the innocent persons- who are innocent in His eyes; and a simple person for delivering His message to a people. This happened with Jonah and others; and you know it happened with Jesus also.
The **Second Coming 1835-1908 **also believed in Jesus being raised to heaven from the Cross (or just before it), like an ordinary Muslim believed till such time God knowing of his innocent heart and mind selected him for Second Coming; and GodAllahParmesherYHWH told him by **a Clear Word **that he was **Second Coming and Jesus **was not raised to heaven from the Cross like Muslims believed or Jesus died on the Cross as our CatholicsProtestantsJWs believed and got resurrected on the third day and ascended to heaven on the fortieth day or whatever is your belief.
God also informed **Second Coming **of about forty verses in Quran which prove for sure that Jesus did not got killed on the Cross but died a natural and peaceful death later and then his soul(not his physical body was raised unto Him). This is in short and the rest you know from my posts.
So it is true that the first and primary source on “Jesus was not killed on Cross” – but Jesus later died naturally in Kashmir, in India; is the pristine Word of God revealed on the Second Coming 1835-1908.
**The Word **of GodAllahYHWH is and had been the first/authentic and primary source of human knowledge whether revealed on Moses/Buddha/Jesus/Muhammad or Mirza Ghulam Ahmad; it is **of itself a complete and without doubt source **and requires no external witnessing.
It is so simple and reasonable to understand.
The ultimate truth about Jesus is that he died in Kashmir; Jesus’ sheep would listen to Second Coming.
There is absolutely no compulsion in faith, whatsoever.
I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna
Thanks
Hi
I thank everybody who has resolved to pray for me; and pray you must. This is one thing which **Second Coming **1835-1908 has emphasized very much. Also kindly pray for yourselves; you also need prayers as I do. There is no harm in praying.
Now coming to the topic; it is always like this that when people wrong and are mislead GodAllahParmesherYHWH selects from amongst the innocent persons- who are innocent in His eyes; and a simple person for delivering His message to a people. This happened with Jonah and others; and you know it happened with Jesus also.
The **Second Coming 1835-1908 **also believed in Jesus being raised to heaven from the Cross (or just before it), like an ordinary Muslim believed till such time God knowing of his innocent heart and mind selected him for Second Coming; and GodAllahParmesherYHWH told him by **a Clear Word **that he was **Second Coming and Jesus **was not raised to heaven from the Cross like Muslims believed or Jesus died on the Cross as our CatholicsProtestantsJWs believed and got resurrected on the third day and ascended to heaven on the fortieth day or whatever is your belief.
God also informed **Second Coming **of about forty verses in Quran which prove for sure that Jesus did not got killed on the Cross but died a natural and peaceful death later and then his soul(not his physical body was raised unto Him). This is in short and the rest you know from my posts.
So it is true that the first and primary source on “Jesus was not killed on Cross” – but Jesus later died naturally in Kashmir, in India; is the pristine Word of God revealed on the Second Coming 1835-1908.
**The Word **of GodAllahYHWH is and had been the first/authentic and primary source of human knowledge whether revealed on Moses/Buddha/Jesus/Muhammad or Mirza Ghulam Ahmad; it is **of itself a complete and without doubt source **and requires no external witnessing.
It is so simple and reasonable to understand.
The ultimate truth about Jesus is that he died in Kashmir; Jesus’ sheep would listen to Second Coming.
There is absolutely no compulsion in faith, whatsoever.
I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna
Thanks
P
paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
And I am not jealous of the Western Man; the progress made in the scientific fields and they serve humanity, Catholics people I like them.
The sheep of Jesus would listen to his Second Coming 1835-1908, and would progress still more.
I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna.
Thanks
P
paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
There is no compulsion in religion; absolutely none.
God bless you.
I love Jesus and Mary as I love Buddha and Krishna
Thanks
P
paarsurrey
Guest
JLSamuel818; 4463070:
There is no harm in praying; and pray you must. Second Coming has specially emphasized for praying regularly.
Jesus prayers to God Allah in the garden of Gethsemane were heard and God Allah saved his life and he died a natural and peaceful death in Kashmir. So the prayers do bring fruit.
I like that you pray regularly five times a day and also spend money in charity.
I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna.
With love and grace of GodAllah
Hi
There is no harm in praying; and pray you must. Second Coming has specially emphasized for praying regularly.
Jesus prayers to God Allah in the garden of Gethsemane were heard and God Allah saved his life and he died a natural and peaceful death in Kashmir. So the prayers do bring fruit.
I like that you pray regularly five times a day and also spend money in charity.
I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna.
With love and grace of GodAllah
- Status