History of Islam. *QUESTION*

[MHalsey]

The “divinity” of Jesus (pbuh) is surely the most significant belief in present-day Christianity.

And so then, why didn’t Jesus (pbuh) see the need to repeatedly say it out loud in very clear and unequivocal terms to his followers?

Why would He need to? Would you believe in Him if He did? I’m betting not. Also, consider, there are more than 1 billion Catholics in the world to say nothing of the protestants and orthodox. It started out as an outlaw religion and those caught practicing it were fed to the lions. Yet, it converted the entire Roman Empire with ever drawing a sword. Something that can never be said about islam. All that without Christ say, “I am God”. Oh, wait, He did. Just as another poster mentioned.

In comparison, would anyone in the world even question the name of the first man and woman to live according to the Bible?

Definitely NOT because this is just so very clearly stated in the Bible and therefore no one has any doubts whatsoever that Adam and Eve were the first man and woman, even those who choose to disbelieve what the Bible teaches will not even dare question that this is what it states.

Why then is the matter of the alleged divinity of Jesus (pbuh), which is surely no less significant than the story of Adam and Eve, be so ambiguous that it should even be subject to question by disbelievers of Christianity if this was indeed what Prophet Jesus (pbuh) taught?

It’s only ambiguous because you want it to be. As the other poster pointed out. Jesus left no doubt that He is God by using the Name of God in reference to Himself and declaring equality with God. Just because He did not say it “repeatedly” makes it no less true.

 

[MHalsey]

This is proof that we don’t all worship the same god; some claim there are many paths to God, and one can find it’s own way, but sorry, that simply isn’t true.

Christians and Jews do, but I have come to believe muslims do not.

 

[Benjamin8o8]

Christians and Jews do, but I have come to believe muslims do not.

Muslims DO believe in the same God we do. There is no denying that. Sure, we have our differences, but come on, muslim women are so much more pure then Christian females. I honestly believe, God bestows his Mercy on US because of them. When I attend Mass, and I see how disgusting some of these girls dress before the Holy Eucharist, I am truly convinced we should be greatful for these God-fearing women. And seeing that they don`t even believe Jesus as being God, they still have more respect for Jesus then the “Christian” women you see on tv and elsewhere.

Anyhow, back to the subject at hand, no Muslim could have properly answered my question. When, where, how did Islam get allegedly corrupted. The Catholic Church goes back to Saint Peter (a deciple of Jesus) and If that is not ture, you should then at least provide any type of evidence that I am lying.

So with that said, we Catholics ARE the fullfilled Jews and the true Muslims.

God Bless.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Salaam/peace

… muslim women are so much more pure then Christian females. I honestly believe, God bestows his Mercy on US because of them.

woow , can’t believe a Christian can write these . Anyway Thanks

When I attend Mass, and I see how disgusting some of these girls dress before the Holy Eucharist,

A Christian in other forum told me , there is no dress code for Christian women.

When, where, how did Islam get allegedly corrupted.

We don’t believe that Islam is corrupted . Pl. explain more.

.

we Catholics ARE the fullfilled Jews and the true Muslims.
.

Nuh as long as u worship Christ (p) & holy Spirit (p), u won’t be able to be Muslim. Muslims are those who believe God has no parents , no son, daughter , partner etc. God can’t die , God is not begotten etc.

 

[MHalsey]

Muslims DO believe in the same God we do. There is no denying that. Sure, we have our differences, but come on, muslim women are so much more pure then Christian females. I honestly believe, God bestows his Mercy on US because of them. When I attend Mass, and I see how disgusting some of these girls dress before the Holy Eucharist, I am truly convinced we should be greatful for these God-fearing women. And seeing that they don`t even believe Jesus as being God, they still have more respect for Jesus then the “Christian” women you see on tv and elsewhere.

How is a women who follows a law to do something (ie. dress in a burka) holier than anyone else. Next you’ll say hitler was a good guy because he never drank and was faithful to his wife. This argument makes no sense.

And determining someones holiness or devotion to God based on how they dress is fairly judgmental of you.

Anyhow, back to the subject at hand, no Muslim could have properly answered my question. When, where, how did Islam get allegedly corrupted. The Catholic Church goes back to Saint Peter (a deciple of Jesus) and If that is not ture, you should then at least provide any type of evidence that I am lying.

So with that said, we Catholics ARE the fullfilled Jews and the true Muslims.

God Bless.

I completely disagree.

islam means “to submit”. A slave submits to his master. And that is how muslims view their god, as a master. As christians, we are called sons and daughters of God. Our relationship with the Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit is far different and far deeper. We are called to have a personal relationship with our God.

No, muslims worship an entirely different god.

Calling Catholics (and Christians in general) “true muslims” is, IMO, an insult.

 

[jakasaki]

**When I attend Mass, and I see how disgusting some **of these girls dress before the Holy Eucharist, I am truly convinced we should be greatful for these God-fearing women.

Ben, you are absolutely correct and I’m glad that you wrote “some” of these girls…

I remember as a child and teen living at my parents house, we always went to church every Sunday, attended Sunday School and of course attended other Mass services for holidays and holy days.

Anyway, today, we as a family still dress in our “Sunday best” for Mass. Always!

As of writing this reply, I am 50 years old and to this day, I still put on my “Sunday best” for Church Services.

Matt will always wear a suit and tie and Nicole who is 15 1/2 will always wear a dress or skirt below the knees with a pretty blouse.

As a teen, she can dress anyway she wants, well with moderation… ( I must approve ) but for Mass she knows she needs to “drop the teen dress attitude”…

My dad who passed away on Thanksgiving of 2007 was suffering from Parkinsons and Alzheimers for 7 years. We was unable to care for him self, but we always made sure he looked handsome in his wheel chair with his Sunday suit, every Sunday.

Thank you for reading my story…

Best regards and May God Bless Us, Everyone!
Pam
New York

 

[Booklover]

Muslims DO believe in the same God we do. There is no denying that. Sure, we have our differences, but come on, muslim women are so much more pure then Christian females. I honestly believe, God bestows his Mercy on US because of them. When I attend Mass, and I see how disgusting some of these girls dress before the Holy Eucharist, I am truly convinced we should be greatful for these God-fearing women. And seeing that they don`t even believe Jesus as being God, they still have more respect for Jesus then the “Christian” women you see on tv and elsewhere.

Did the God we believe in dictate the Quran? If he did not, and that’s the god they follow, are they worshipping the same God?

I agree that some Christian women dress in an offensive manner but it does not necessarily mean that because they dress in a skimpy way or whatever, that they have dirty minds or are having illicit sexual relations or anything like that. Muslim women are compelled to dress the way they do. You can’t really have morality without free will. In Islam Muslims are told how to do everything. There is no such thing as “free will” in Islam. If you dress a rapist in a monk’s robe, does that make him stop being a rapist? Just because Muslim women are told to dress in a certain manner, does not make them more “pure” than anyone else! How do you know what their thoughts are?

Anyhow, back to the subject at hand, no Muslim could have properly answered my question. When, where, how did Islam get allegedly corrupted. The Catholic Church goes back to Saint Peter (a deciple of Jesus) and If that is not ture, you should then at least provide any type of evidence that I am lying.

So with that said, we Catholics ARE the fullfilled Jews and the true Muslims.

God Bless.

Muslims don’t believe that Islam is corrupted. Since Muhammad brought a totally different message, and couldn’t answer his detractors, he claimed that previous revelations are the ones corrupted! He even okayed lying, and one billion people accept his unverifiable claims blindly!

Vickie

 

[Benjamin8o8]

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/peace…

A Christian in other forum told me , there is no dress code for Christian women…

There is no specific dress code for Christian women, but if somebody devoutes their life to God, they shouldnt have to have the need for somebody to tell them how to dress. They should already have common sense how to dress when you step into Gods house. Meaning: hide the “forbidden” parts, and cover the unnecessary skin. You Muslims do that, and I respect that

We don’t believe that Islam is corrupted . Pl. explain more…

You believe the “Religion” Muhammad preached existed before his own existence. Yet you fail to prove that.

Nuh as long as u worship Christ (p) & holy Spirit (p), u won’t be able to be Muslim. Muslims are those who believe God has no parents , no son, daughter , partner etc. God can’t die , God is not begotten etc.

The Father is God, Jesus Christ is God, the Holy Spirit is God. We “submit” ourselves to these three persons which make up ONE God. We are the true Muslims. you are right, God has no parrents in a sense that somebody or something came before Him. We dont believe that. We also dont believe God has a son in a sense humens do. Jesus is called the Son of God to fit our human understanding. And no…God can not die. This is why Jesus before He expired screamed “Father into your hands I command my spirit”. Because when His earthly body passed away, His immortal Spirit lived on. For Jesus is the Alpha and Omega

God Bless

 

[Benjamin8o8]

How is a women who follows a law to do something (ie. dress in a burka) holier than anyone else. Next you’ll say hitler was a good guy because he never drank and was faithful to his wife. This argument makes no sense.

And determining someones holiness or devotion to God based on how they dress is fairly judgmental of you…

What?? How can you even say that. Their way of dress reflects their purity. I am not saying only because they dress in a burka makes them “automaticly” holier then anyone else. The fact they are ashamed of their body (like women should be) makes them more attractive to God then some Christian women. Also, dont compare our Muslim sisters to Hitler. Sorry, but youre not going anywhere with that.

I completely disagree.

islam means “to submit”. A slave submits to his master. And that is how muslims view their god, as a master. As christians, we are called sons and daughters of God. Our relationship with the Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit is far different and far deeper. We are called to have a personal relationship with our God.

No, muslims worship an entirely different god.

Calling Catholics (and Christians in general) “true muslims” is, IMO, an insult.

Whoa whoa whoa…so you are saying only because God is so merciful we have the right to say God is not our Master?! You are right on one thing, we are called children of God, and because of our relationship with God I also agree with you when you said our relationship is far deeper. But that does not mean God is not our Master, because He certainly is! We need to fear God, and OBEY every one of His commenmands. But in the same time, open our hearts to Him and LOVE Him above everything else.

Just take a look at the saints and their role in obedience towards God.

No, Muslims DO NOT worship a different God. They worship the same God of Abraham, which means they worship the Father of Jesus.

“Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of My Father”

 

[jakasaki]

There is no specific dress code for Christian women, but if somebody devoutes their life to God, they shouldnt have to have the need for somebody to tell them how to dress. They should already have common sense how to dress when you step into Gods house. Meaning: hide the “forbidden” parts, and cover the unnecessary skin. You Muslims do that, and I respect that

God Bless

Good afternoon Benjamin -

Since islam is many things and one of them is a way of life, in their koran it states how women should dress at all times.

Koran - Chapter 24:31
And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands or fathers or husbands’ fathers, or their sons or their husbands’ sons, or their brothers or their brothers’ sons or sisters’ sons, or their women, or their slaves, or male attendants who lack vigour, or children who know naught of women’s nakedness.

And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And turn unto Allah together, O believers, in order that ye may succeed.

Koran - Chapater 33:59
O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognised and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.

If I am not reading this properly, please, from our muslim members, I would welcome a correction and or an explaination.

Best regards to all and May God Bless Us All, Everyone!
Pam
New York

 

[Jay53]

The fact they are ashamed of their body (like women should be) makes them more attractive to God then some Christian women.

What!?! Since when should women (or men for that matter) be “ashamed” of their bodies. I’m hoping that you just picked the wrong word and didn’t mean this how it sounds. I definately believe in modesty, especially in Church, but we are created in the image of God and have nothing to be “ashamed” of in that regard.

 

[Benjamin8o8]

Did the God we believe in dictate the Quran? If he did not, and that’s the god they follow, are they worshipping the same God?]

No, God did not dicate the Quran. Mohammad lied to his followers. But the Holy Spirit brought something good out of evil like it always does. For example: Just take a look at Muslim_Woman signature. Does it not venerate the Holy Mary? Are you going to tell me the devil put that in the Koran? Come on now. What about the ten commendmends in the Koran? Did the devil do that as well? I don`t think so. What about the preachings of Moses and other prophets? The enemy was okay with that?? Mohammad just used the word Allah to make him seem like a good person. To make it seem as if he was doing the work for the Most High. If the Muslims today believe that for whatever reason they do, you can not say they worship a different god.

• agree that some Christian women dress in an offensive manner but it does not necessarily mean that because they dress in a skimpy way or whatever, that they have dirty minds or are having illicit sexual relations or anything like that. Muslim women are compelled to dress the way they do. You can’t really have morality without free will. In Islam Muslims are told how to do everything. There is no such thing as “free will” in Islam. If you dress a rapist in a monk’s robe, does that make him stop being a rapist? Just because Muslim women are told to dress in a certain manner, does not make them more “pure” than anyone else! How do you know what their thoughts are? ]*

How do I know what their thoughts are? By the fruits their produce. I dont see Muslim women on t.v advertising thongs and braws. I dont see Muslim women (that dress in a burka) on the streets selling themselves for money. I don`t see them showing their skin in their own holy temple where they worship God. That is how I know what their thoughts are. Any Muslim woman in the western world can rebell and have the law support them, but they like their way of life. (As far as I can tell)

“You can’t really have morality without free will.”

In some decree you can, only God knows how pure they really are. But remember, you CAN have morality with dicipline.
Booklover;4708168:

Muslims don’t believe that Islam is corrupted. Since Muhammad brought a totally different message, and couldn’t answer his detractors, he claimed that previous revelations are the ones corrupted! He even okayed lying, and one billion people accept his unverifiable claims blindly!

Vickie

I agree. I didn`t try to say they believe that Islam is corrupted, I was trying to say they believe the message of Islam (before Mohammad) got corrupted.

 

[Benjamin8o8]

What!?! Since when should women (or men for that matter) be “ashamed” of their bodies. I’m hoping that you just picked the wrong word and didn’t mean this how it sounds. I definately believe in modesty, especially in Church, but we are created in the image of God and have nothing to be “ashamed” of in that regard.

lol, I meant we should be ashamed to expose our bodies to others. I also think I might have used the wrong word

 

[Jay53]

lol, I meant we should be ashamed to expose our bodies to others. I also think I might have used the wrong word

OK. I was afraid I’d have to get out my “I am woman hear me roar” shtick. :nunchuk: (not that I actually have one! )

And, I do agree with you - we should dress modestly and not expose ourselves to others. But I also think we should do this as a sign of reverence to God and because we choose to out of respect for Him as opposed to doing it because it is the law in the country and you will be severely punished by the religious police if you don’t.

BTW, what is the punishment for women who don’t wear hijab/burqa/…?

 

[Booklover]

What!?! Since when should women (or men for that matter) be “ashamed” of their bodies. I’m hoping that you just picked the wrong word and didn’t mean this how it sounds. I definately believe in modesty, especially in Church, but we are created in the image of God and have nothing to be “ashamed” of in that regard.

Exactly! Isn’t it Muslims that consider the human body dirty?

Vickie

 

[MHalsey]

What?? How can you even say that. Their way of dress reflects their purity. I am not saying only because they dress in a burka makes them “automaticly” holier then anyone else. The fact they are ashamed of their body (like women should be) makes them more attractive to God then some Christian women. Also, dont compare our Muslim sisters to Hitler. Sorry, but youre not going anywhere with that.

Their way of dress reflects a law that requires it. Nothing else. Do muslim women in the west also dress in burkas. Some do, but most do not. Are these other muslim women “less pure” because they don’t wear burkas?

And how do you know they do this because they are “ashamed of their bodies”? You are judging someone’s purity based on how they dress. You have no right to do so. You cannot see their souls.

Incidentally, I was not comparing them to hitler. I was comparing your argument for their purity based on dress to hitler.

Whoa whoa whoa…so you are saying only because God is so merciful we have the right to say God is not our Master?! You are right on one thing, we are called children of God, and because of our relationship with God I also agree with you when you said our relationship is far deeper. But that does not mean God is not our Master, because He certainly is! We need to fear God, and OBEY every one of His commenmands. But in the same time, open our hearts to Him and LOVE Him above everything else.

I didn’t need to say it. Jesus did.

John Ch 15 v.15
I no longer call you slaves, because a slave does not know what his master is doing. I have called you friends, because I have told you everything I have heard from my Father.

Just take a look at the saints and their role in obedience towards God.

No, Muslims DO NOT worship a different God. They worship the same God of Abraham, which means they worship the Father of Jesus.

“Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of My Father”

The saints lived their lives for God, not based on duty as a servant to master but out of a love for God. That is not islam as you want to claim.

muslims to not call Jesus “Lord, Lord”.

The premise of your argument is false to begin with. You are claiming islam is the original religion of Abraham as the muslims claim, only they have corrupted it, not the Christians and Jews. This is simply not true.

 

[MHalsey]

No, God did not dicate the Quran. Mohammad lied to his followers. But the Holy Spirit brought something good out of evil like it always does. For example: Just take a look at Muslim_Woman signature. Does it not venerate the Holy Mary? Are you going to tell me the devil put that in the Koran? Come on now. What about the ten commendmends in the Koran? Did the devil do that as well? I don`t think so. What about the preachings of Moses and other prophets? The enemy was okay with that?? Mohammad just used the word Allah to make him seem like a good person. To make it seem as if he was doing the work for the Most High. If the Muslims today believe that for whatever reason they do, you can not say they worship a different god.

The devil uses lies mixed with truth to deceive. And half truths, such as the muslim understanding of the Virgin Birth, are even more deceitful.

How do I know what their thoughts are? By the fruits their produce. I dont see Muslim women **on t.v advertising thongs and braws.** I dont see Muslim women (that dress in a burka) on the streets selling themselves for money. I don`t see them showing their skin in their own holy temple where they worship God. That is how I know what their thoughts are. Any Muslim woman in the western world can rebell and have the law support them, but they like their way of life. (As far as I can tell)

So you’re saying the women you see in church are doing the things you mention?

Prostitution and vulgar ads are a reflection of our society. They are not a reflection of the hearts and minds of the women you see at church.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not a fan of the way some people dress in church, but I’m not going to judge the purity of their souls based on it.

Yes, the tree is known by its fruit. Not by its bark.

 

[Booklover]

No, God did not dicate the Quran. Mohammad lied to his followers. But the Holy Spirit brought something good out of evil like it always does. For example: Just take a look at Muslim_Woman signature. Does it not venerate the Holy Mary? Are you going to tell me the devil put that in the Koran? Come on now. What about the ten commendmends in the Koran? Did the devil do that as well? I don`t think so. What about the preachings of Moses and other prophets? The enemy was okay with that?? Mohammad just used the word Allah to make him seem like a good person. To make it seem as if he was doing the work for the Most High. If the Muslims today believe that for whatever reason they do, you can not say they worship a different god.

You’re not making any sense! Does the Holy Spirit bring conflicting messages? Muhammad was a copycat! He plagiarized things from other scriptures. Where do you get the idea that it was the Holy Spirit that inspired Muhammad? You may claim to be a Catholic, but your posts sound more like the stuff that Muslim apologists use to sell Islam to us.

How do I know what their thoughts are? By the fruits their produce. I dont see Muslim women on t.v advertising thongs and braws. I dont see Muslim women (that dress in a burka) on the streets selling themselves for money. I don`t see them showing their skin in their own holy temple where they worship God. That is how I know what their thoughts are. Any Muslim woman in the western world can rebell and have the law support them, but they like their way of life. (As far as I can tell)

Exactly! How do you know what their thoughts are! A woman may be dressed from head to toe and have her mind in the gutter. You can’t judge a book by its cover.

You did not answer my question:

Does dressing a rapist in a monk’s habit make him a monk?

**Does dressing a prostitute in a nun’s habit make her a nun? **You’re equating purity simply on the way a person dresses.

“You can’t really have morality without free will.”

In some decree you can, only God knows how pure they really are. But remember, you CAN have morality with dicipline.

Forcing someone into modesty is not virtue!

I

agree. I didn`t try to say they believe that Islam is corrupted, I was trying to say they believe the message of Islam (before Mohammad) got corrupted.

There was NO Islam before Muhammad!

Vickie

 

[Benjamin8o8]

Their way of dress reflects a law that requires it. Nothing else. Do muslim women in the west also dress in burkas. Some do, but most do not. Are these other muslim women “less pure” because they don’t wear burkas?

And how do you know they do this because they are “ashamed of their bodies”? You are judging someone’s purity based on how they dress. You have no right to do so. You cannot see their souls…

“Are these other muslim women “less pure” because they don’t wear burkas?” I would say so, considering the woman that “choose” to dress according to the law that requires them to. Also, they show less skin which decreseas the chance that other men might look at them lustfully. Meaning: God is more pleased with such women.

Once again, thank you Muslimas for appeasing Gods anger. High school “Christian” girls should look up to you.

"You are judging someone’s purity based on how they dress. " I am not judging, I am just speaking the truth. God is going to judge someone`s purity based on their dressing. Because the way someone dress may cause another being to react sinful.

I didn’t need to say it. Jesus did.

John Ch 15 v.15
I no longer call you slaves, because a slave does not know what his master is doing. I have called you friends, because I have told you everything I have heard from my Father..

I am not denying Jesus words. I am also thankful for Jesus MAKING us Children and friends of God. I really am. But this verse you pointed out dose not eliminate the fact we are still slaves of God. We are slaves, and always will be. God is the Master of our souls. We belong to HIM. .

The saints lived their lives for God, not based on duty as a servant to master but out of a love for God. That is not islam as you want to claim…

I know, I did not say that nor claim that. I am neither talking about the laws of Islam nor am I talking about how Muslims worship their God. I am basically talking about the word “Muslim” as an adjective. This is why I said, we are the TRUE Muslims. We submit ourselves totaly to God, and not to Mohammads laws.

muslims to not call Jesus “Lord, Lord”…

But they do the will of His Father (They fast, they give money to the poor, they even follow quite a few things what Jesus preached, they worship in their temple ect…)

The premise of your argument is false to begin with. You are claiming islam is the original religion of Abraham as the muslims claim, only they have corrupted it, not the Christians and Jews. This is simply not true.

Go back to the original post, and look at the questions I asked for Muslims to answer. You will see that I am not claiming Islam is the original religion of Abraham, I am only saying they worship the God Abraham worshipped.

 

[planten]

I see, so The Jews, Christiains, and followers of Mohammad are ALL Muslim, right?

**Yes, if they are peaceful. Muslim has to be peaceful. But at the same time, it is necessary not to associate any one with God. See verse 2:62 of the Quran. Quran has admitted that peaceful Muslims and Jews and Christians and Sabians, who believe in God and the last day and they do good deeds (be peaceful to self and others), they need not fear for the future nor they should suffer for anything of the past.

You can be a Muslim by being peaceful and by believing in God and by being a Unitarian. No one can ride in two boats at once. It is necessary to believe in One God, not in three gods in One God.

Jesus never preached his divinity loudly. Not even for a day. It is wrong to take bad meanings of simple good words of Jesus. he said “I and father are one.” Can it not have any other beautiful meanings? It could be symbolic words that Jesus was united with Allah (God). He was one with God. That meant he represented God on Earth, like all other prophets.

We Muslims believe the good words of Jesus, many good words. But we do not take wrong meanings of those words. jesus could be called son of God in some symbolic way. He could not be called a God. he could at the most be said to be a beloved son of god. But not a God. The son of God is symbolic only.

Goethe (The German Poet) had also said that if Islam means submission to God then we all live and die as a muslims.

In that sense you could call yourself Muslim. God wants you to be Muslims.**