hitler

[willie_duggan]

Matthew 7 :13-14

Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

If a soul is in Hell there are far many more also there too.

 

[tonyrey]

God is love, so says St. John.

This is what I firmly believe.

No greater love does a man have than to lay down his life for his friends, so says Jesus.

This is what I firmly believe.

He could not do many miracles in that town because of their lack of faith, so the bible said.

I personally don’t want Hitler, Stalin, or Ivan the terrible, to be in hell, or anyone for that matter, irregardless of how aweful they have been.

Jesus dosen’t either. He is fair, loving, and giving. If there is a way, I’m sure he will offer it to them.

The rest we must trust in his love.

May God bless and keep you. May God’s face shine on you. May God be kind to you and give you peace.

Our Lord died for everyone.

 

[tafan]

Could it be possible that Hitler sincerely thought he was doing the right thing ? Like suicide terrorists, these nut cases believe they are committing atrocities for the greater good.

People who are truly deranged are not held accountable for their actions. The religious fanatic thinks they are defending their faith in some holy war. They expect a reward from God. A mortal sin requires that you are fully aware that what you are doing is gravely wrong, these folks believe they doing the right thing. Could Hitller possibly have thought that he was following the right path? A lot of racists and neo nazis still think this way. They invoke God just most normal folks. There are a boatload of delusional nut cases out there and most if not all believe they are doing what they are supposed to do.

One would still be held accountable for the extreme deformation of one’s conscience. To have a conscience that is so blind to natural law does not happen by chance.

 

[robwar]

And what if Hitler is not in Hell? What if he is in Heaven, praying for all of us?

Edit: Oops! Rete said it first (see the post just above). I guess we are thinking along the same lines.

Oh please, I think it would be a better use of our time to pray for the victims of Hilter and not Hitler himself or his soul. Sorry, the man killed himself and I think we should leave the rest in God’s hands for his final judgement.

 

[tonyrey]

One would still be held accountable for the extreme deformation of one’s conscience. To have a conscience that is so blind to natural law does not happen by chance.

There are examples of pathological cases in the article I cited.

 

[tonyrey]

Oh please, I think it would be a better use of our time to pray for the victims of Hilter and not Hitler himself or his soul. Sorry, the man killed himself and I think we should leave the rest in God’s hands for his final judgement.

Not to pray for those who have committed suicide is to overlook the possibility that their minds were unbalanced.

 

[robwar]

Could it be possible that Hitler sincerely thought he was doing the right thing ? Like suicide terrorists, these nut cases believe they are committing atrocities for the greater good.

People who are truly deranged are not held accountable for their actions. The religious fanatic thinks they are defending their faith in some holy war. They expect a reward from God. A mortal sin requires that you are fully aware that what you are doing is gravely wrong, these folks believe they doing the right thing. Could Hitller possibly have thought that he was following the right path? A lot of racists and neo nazis still think this way. They invoke God just most normal folks. There are a boatload of delusional nut cases out there and most if not all believe they are doing what they are supposed to do.

Whether someone sincerely thinks they are doing the right thing or not doesn’t excuse them from being held responsible for their actions. A lot of evil people think they are right and aredoing the right thing. Hitler was baptized a Catholic and even went through confirmation, he never practiced his Catholic faith and believe and number of very unorthodoxed ideas about God and religion. He was an immoral man, he practiced the occult and his ideas resulted in the death of millions. It would be better to spend our time and efforts not on praying for him, he did murder himself but on looking for ways to stand up to the ideas and things he believed and promoted which by anyone’s account are totally evil. We also ought to look at how a madman like Hitler was able to take over a “Christian” country and turn it into an killing machine. Those lessons are what we should focus on not on the final state of Hilter’s soul and if he is in hell. Hitler was pro-abortion, pro-euthenasia, pro-immorality pro-death and murder. He took over a economically depressed country and starting out with the retarded and mentally ill, eliminated them before he went out after Jews and others deemed sub-human. Praying for a dead evil despot isn’t forgiving your enemies. Looking at what his fruits were in his life and learning from histories lessons so we avoid Hitlers and Stalins are what we should be all about.

 

[robwar]

Not to pray for those who have committed suicide is to overlook the possibility that their minds were unbalanced.

Hitler killed himself because he has lost the war and the Russians were moving in. It was his cowardly way of not being captured and held responsible for his actions. That is totally different than a mentally ill person who commits suicide out of depression and desperation. I do have a friend who had a son commit suicide. That is a horrible thing for any parent or family member to have to go through. Now if you want to split hairs over if Hitler was mentally ill or unstable. Hitler was totally evil, his fruit show it and as a last act in his evil life, he kills himself in order not to be captured.

 

[Robertanthony]

God is infinitely loving and merciful, is not cruel and does not “sustain people to live constantly in a harrowing state of mind, with physical pain to boot”.

 Souls in hell live constantly in a harrowing state of mind ("the smoke of their torments will rise day and night forever"), after the Last Judgment, they will be reunited with their physical bodies and will suffer in their bodies as well. Nobody lives whom God does not will to live, nobody lives whom God does not actively and willingly sustain.

This is the classic objection of the atheist based on the false assumption that we do not determine our own destiny - as if we are impotent cogs in a machine. What happened to free will??

If I commit an armed robbery I can expect to go to jail if when the cops get a hold of me. If someone really believes God and hell are fairy tales to make children behave, a scare tactic, how do they freely choose hell if they think they're strictly material beings and their death is the end of their existence? I'm not arguing that everyone should go to Heaven, I'm perfectly fine with God allowing whomeevr in his kingdom, Heaven is like a privilege, I'm okay with poeple not getting that privilege, falling short of what it takes to get that privilege, the others lost, they missed out on their eternal destiny, they missed the train/boat/God, hell is eternally rubbing it in "yoohoo, hey you poor wretched soul, look how happy we are, this is better than any temporal joy on earth, you chose poorly, sorry, hahaha".  A young man who dies at 20 who had premarital sex a couple of times and didn't think it was that big of a deal deserves to be handed over to evil itself/himself (hell, Satan) to suffer eternally? That's a parody of justice. When you want to have a good idea of a powerful man's true nature, look how he treats those who disagree with him. God calls the shots and determines that one instance of sexual gratification outside of marriage makes the offender worthy to be totally separated from God and from anything good in any way, shape or form. One act of fornication, you die and God's justice makes Hitler your cell mate.

Some also come up with the ludicrous argument that if hell exists, then it means it’s better for a creature to suffer eternally than to not be alive, because God is so good, he cannot will evil, so an eternal stay in hell cannot be evil. I’m in torment and agony, I’ll never escape this state but thank God I’m alive to feel this torment and agony, and to experience this soul-crushing loneliness and hopelessness!" God is good and merciful as long as you “Yes, good sir” or “Yes, master”, he becomes harsh, mean and cruel when you don’t. Conclusion: some of God’s attributes (goodness/benevolence, justice and love) are conditional, relative rather than absolute. God hates his enemies and don’t ever want them to forget just who they rebelleld against. His wrath (in an impassible kind of way) and desire for revenge are insatiable. That’s the God we’re looking at.

 

[tonyrey]

Souls in hell live constantly in a harrowing state of mind (“the smoke of their torments will rise day and night forever”), after the Last Judgment, they will be reunited with their physical bodies and will suffer in their bodies as well. Nobody lives whom God does not will to live, nobody lives whom God does not actively and willingly sustain.

If I commit an armed robbery I can expect to go to jail if when the cops get a hold of me. If someone really believes God and hell are fairy tales to make children behave, a scare tactic, how do they freely choose hell if they think they’re strictly material beings and their death is the end of their existence? I’m not arguing that everyone should go to Heaven, I’m perfectly fine with God allowing whomeevr in his kingdom, Heaven is like a privilege, I’m okay with poeple not getting that privilege, falling short of what it takes to get that privilege, the others lost, they missed out on their eternal destiny, they missed the train/boat/God, hell is eternally rubbing it in “yoohoo, hey you poor wretched soul, look how happy we are, this is better than any temporal joy on earth, you chose poorly, sorry, hahaha”. A young man who dies at 20 who had premarital sex a couple of times and didn’t think it was that big of a deal deserves to be handed over to evil itself/himself (hell, Satan) to suffer eternally? That’s a parody of justice. When you want to have a good idea of a powerful man’s true nature, look how he treats those who disagree with him. God calls the shots and determines that one instance of sexual gratification outside of marriage makes the offender worthy to be totally separated from God and from anything good in any way, shape or form. One act of fornication, you die and God’s justice makes Hitler your cell mate.

Some also come up with the ludicrous argument that if hell exists, then it means it’s better for a creature to suffer eternally than to not be alive, because God is so good, he cannot will evil, so an eternal stay in hell cannot be evil. I’m in torment and agony, I’ll never escape this state but thank God I’m alive to feel this torment and agony, and to experience this soul-crushing loneliness and hopelessness!" God is good and merciful as long as you “Yes, good sir” or “Yes, master”, he becomes harsh, mean and cruel when you don’t. Conclusion: some of God’s attributes (goodness/benevolence, justice and love) are conditional, relative rather than absolute. God hates his enemies and don’t ever want them to forget just who they rebelleld against. His wrath (in an impassible kind of way) and desire for revenge are insatiable. That’s the God we’re looking at.

That’s the God you are looking at! Where do you obtain your information?

 

[tonyrey]

Hitler killed himself because he has lost the war and the Russians were moving in. It was his cowardly way of not being captured and held responsible for his actions. That is totally different than a mentally ill person who commits suicide out of depression and desperation. I do have a friend who had a son commit suicide. That is a horrible thing for any parent or family member to have to go through. Now if you want to split hairs over if Hitler was mentally ill or unstable. Hitler was totally evil, his fruit show it and as a last act in his evil life, he kills himself in order not to be captured.

You obviously haven’t read the article I cited. Here is an extract:

… However, it is clear that Hitler’s hospitalization at Pasewalk was important in Hitler’s life. Whether it metamorphosed him or was absolutely pivotal to his later behavior is debatable. Also, although a diagnosis of PTSD in no way can account for Hitler’s later atrocities, it may have exacerbated his early paranoid, antisocial, narcissistic, and sadistic temperaments. Undoubtedly, his trauma was also enhanced, even before the mustard gas episode, by his experience directly on the Russian front. There is also evidence from recent studies of the effects of mustard gas upon humans (Bullman & Kang, 1994; Pinkston et al., 2001) to establish that this incident would qualify as an extreme traumatic stressor involving death and serious injury, as is required by the DSM for a diagnosis of PTSD.

uccs.edu/~faculty/fcoolidg/Hitler%20PDF%20unproof.pdf

There is little doubt that Hitler had delusions of grandeur when he was in a position of absolute power. It is obviously rash to make dogmatic decisions about the precise extent to which individuals are and have been responsible for their behaviour. Only God is entitled to judge whether a person should go to hell.

 

[Ion]

Not only Hitler committed suicide, but his mistress and the majority of the high rank Nazi, sometimes with their families…

 

[Robertanthony]

That’s the God you are looking at! Where do you obtain your information?

God sustains the souls in hell, if he did not, they would cease to exist immediately, he keeps them alive, he wants them to remember whom they dared to go against. Of course God is eternal and infinite, so it naturally follows that a single act of mortal sin deserves eternal misery with no hope of ever seeing an end to one’s misery and affliction. God is lovey dovey with his followers, but his cruelty and vindictiveness for those who don’t want to do his will are unmatched, therefore it follows that God is not infinitely merciful nor loving, as eternal hell is not either one of these. That’s how God appears to be when I remove my rose-coloured glasses. Jesus was but a diversion, the God of the OT is the closest match to who God truly is. If God was all that, this life would not be what it is for many of us because some genius disobeyed him once millenia ago. That’s some justice: being punished for what Adam did when I (or anyone else) had no say in his disobedience, and eternal hell for 5 minutes of fun. Look how those who oppose totalitarian regimes are abused and mistreated by their governements, look how God treats those he doesn’t approve of. Again, I’m not arguing for Heaven for everyone, I’m simply saying that after a period of punishment damned souls ought to be allowed to cease to exist.

There was a case in my hometown not long ago where a brutal monster of a father was brought to court for sexually abusing his daughters as well as other girls many years ago. One of his daughters testified against him, then went home and hanged herself. If I ask you where she is, you’ll tell me that you don’t know. You hope she’s in Heaven (or Purgatory), you entrust her to God’s mercy, you might pray for her salvation etc., is it possible, though, that this woman was not open to Father God loving her, was it possible that she never forgave her Heavenly Father for not doing anyhting when she begged him to stop his father from abusing her, is it possible that she’s in Hell? If she’s in Hell, she has no one but herself to blame, right? Right? Also, we entrust the souls of aborted babies to God’s mercy, what is implied is that there is a real possibility that these souls are in Hell, babies’ souls in Hell, yeah infinite mercy and love.

 

[tonyrey]

God sustains the souls in hell, if he did not, they would cease to exist immediately, he keeps them alive, he wants them to remember whom they dared to go against. Of course God is eternal and infinite, so it naturally follows that a single act of mortal sin deserves eternal misery with no hope of ever seeing an end to one’s misery and affliction. God is lovey dovey with his followers, but his cruelty and vindictiveness for those who don’t want to do his will are unmatched, therefore it follows that God is not infinitely merciful nor loving, as eternal hell is not either one of these. That’s how God appears to be when I remove my rose-coloured glasses. Jesus was but a diversion, the God of the OT is the closest match to who God truly is. If God was all that, this life would not be what it is for many of us because some genius disobeyed him once millenia ago. That’s some justice: being punished for what Adam did when I (or anyone else) had no say in his disobedience, and eternal hell for 5 minutes of fun. Look how those who oppose totalitarian regimes are abused and mistreated by their governements, look how God treats those he doesn’t approve of. Again, I’m not arguing for Heaven for everyone, I’m simply saying that after a period of punishment damned souls ought to be allowed to cease to exist.

1. God is the Creator not the Destroyer.
2. It doesn’t make sense to destroy a person you have created.
3. Hell has its compensations; otherwise it would be empty.
4. Hell is not a trap into which we fall accidentally but a state of self-inflicted isolation.
5. Solitary confinement is the worst punishment one can suffer yet absolute independence is a source of immense pleasure and satisfaction.
6. Even in this world the lust for power leads to frustration and misery.

There was a case in my hometown not long ago where a brutal monster of a father was brought to court for sexually abusing his daughters as well as other girls many years ago. One of his daughters testified against him, then went home and hanged herself. If I ask you where she is, you’ll tell me that you don’t know. You hope she’s in Heaven (or Purgatory), you entrust her to God’s mercy, you might pray for her salvation etc., is it possible, though, that this woman was not open to Father God loving her, was it possible that she never forgave her Heavenly Father for not doing anyhting when she begged him to stop his father from abusing her, is it possible that she’s in Hell? If she’s in Hell, she has no one but herself to blame, right? Right?

Wrong! We are not judged by our emotions but our love for others.

Also, we entrust the souls of aborted babies to God’s mercy, what is implied is that there is a real possibility that these souls are in Hell, babies’ souls in Hell, yeah infinite mercy and love.

It is absolute nonsense to assert that the infinite love demonstrated by Jesus on the Cross is powerless to prevent the damnation of innocent children. Anyone who believes in such a diabolical Monster cannot possibly be a Christian.

 

[tonyrey]

Not only Hitler committed suicide, but his mistress and the majority of the high rank Nazi, sometimes with their families…

Therefore they must all be in hell…

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Is Hitler in Hell?

Did he deserve to go to heaven? Did he make a death bed confession of his sins? Did it help that he committed suicide as his final act? Did he forgive his enemies?

Judgemental or not, of course he’s in hell.

I suppose I might come over as a bit arrogant in saying this, but I’ve said many times that on the night my own father died, he appeared in my room. After his opening apology for 20 years of deliberate cruelty in which he pretty well completely destroyed my confidence, and the ensuing conversation and argument, he disappeared. But not before giving this terrifying scream, which was obviously directed at something coming for him.

If you’d seen the sheer terror he displayed, you wouldn’t accept he was going to Purgatory. So I think he’s in hell. He certainly fulfilled all the CCC criteria.

Yet he didn’t do a fraction of the things that Hitler did. When Rudolph Hess died, a cartoonist in a local paper here drew a caricature of Hess meeting Hitler in hell, with flames all around them. The only words in the cartoon were Hitler saying “Well, Hess?” and Hess replying “Well, Fuhrer?”.

It was only a cartoon, but even as it looked at it, I seemed to get this spiritual sense that there was some truth in it.

If Hitler’s not in hell, I’ll eat my hat.

 

[Cricket2]

Did he deserve to go to heaven? Did he make a death bed confession of his sins? Did it help that he committed suicide as his final act? Did he forgive his enemies?

Judgemental or not, of course he’s in hell.

I suppose I might come over as a bit arrogant in saying this, but I’ve said many times that on the night my own father died, he appeared in my room. After his opening apology for 20 years of deliberate cruelty in which he pretty well completely destroyed my confidence, and the ensuing conversation and argument, he disappeared. But not before giving this terrifying scream, which was obviously directed at something coming for him.

If you’d seen the sheer terror he displayed, you wouldn’t accept he was going to Purgatory. So I think he’s in hell. He certainly fulfilled all the CCC criteria.

Yet he didn’t do a fraction of the things that Hitler did. When Rudolph Hess died, a cartoonist in a local paper here drew a caricature of Hess meeting Hitler in hell, with flames all around them. The only words in the cartoon were Hitler saying “Well, Hess?” and Hess replying “Well, Fuhrer?”.

It was only a cartoon, but even as it looked at it, I seemed to get this spiritual sense that there was some truth in it.

If Hitler’s not in hell, I’ll eat my hat.

I feel Hitler must be in Hell as well and I am not trying to be judgmental. I have to wonder if he had the capacity to feel regret or sorrow for anything he did. I think in many ways he was very much like a serial killer. These individuals seem to have no conscience of any kind, no empathy and no ability to experience regret.

I worked in a nursing home for two years and was present when many people were dying. Most, at the time of their death, had a look of peace come to their face. Only one time did I see a person have a sheer look of terror and meanness come across their face.

I know a Priest that told me of one case where he was present at a man’s death bed, that disturbed him. To the very end the man ranted about hating God and blaming God for all the things that had transpired in his life. The Priest told me that was the only person he had ever been with that he thought went to hell. He said he was actually filled with terror while in the room with the man. Most other people, according to this Priest, seemed to die in peace, even happily talking to God or even angels in the room. Some reached out their hands as if reaching for God.

Certainly none of us can say for sure, but if you ever see someone die that is spewing hatred in their last moments you will never forget the look on their face or the feel in the room.

 

[tonyrey]

The** fact **of Jesus on the Cross seems to be less significant than the theory that Hitler is in hell…

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Jesus was on the cross to give us the **choice **of heaven or hell. They both exist.

 

[bilop]

It is absolute nonsense to assert that the infinite love demonstrated by Jesus on the Cross is powerless to prevent the damnation of innocent children. Anyone who believes in such a diabolical Monster cannot possibly be a Christian.

No one has ever said that unbaptized children go to the Hell of the damned. Since they have no actual (personal) sin, only original sin, they will not be punished with the pains of Hell.

The question is whether they go to Heaven, or some alternate “Limbo” where they experience natural happiness, but not the Beatific Vision. Limbo is not a bad place, it is a vaery, very good place.

If offered the option, all of us should sign up for Limbo right now, given the risks of going to Hell.

God Bless