Hitler's religion

[Claude_Kenneson]

Threads about Hitler’s religion or (particularly) Pius XII are wonderfully irrelevant I always think. After lots of posts proving ‘conclusively’ not only that, under no circumstances whatsoever was any of it the fault of any Catholic but of atheists, protestants or pagans but also that every rabbi ever to bump into Pius immediately converted to Catholicism, everybody can sit around waiting for the next opportunity to convince themselves that the Reich’s main purpose was to persecute Catholics.

A-historic, it certainly is – let nobody speak of the part played by Catholicism (no, not just Orthodoxy, Protestantism and the odd pagan) in creating the anti-Semitic environment, the anti-Semitic paradigm in Europe over the centuries (anybody wishing to see one way in which it worked, consult any of the ‘Muslim ate my hamster’ threads on CAF). Let’s remember the good bits, the odd Catholic who helped Jews, for example, but don’t, for heaven’s sake, mention things like the disproportionate number of Catholic Austrians involved in the running of the ‘Final Solution’.

None of it was uniquely the fault of Catholics, Protestants or, for that matter, Pagans – a large percentage of members of all those groups played their part in the Reich – none of it could have happened otherwise - members of all those groups also suffered because of it.

I think it was all due to patriotism. I don’t care what country you live in, you will find people who uphold their own country and leader. Germany was no exception.

 

[Claude_Kenneson]

www.nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm

Recently the Pope visited the U.S. You will find pictures of him in the presence of Bush. But Bush is not Catholic and the Pope disagrees on the war in Iraq. I’m not sure what this “smoking gun” will prove years from now. That the Pope is American or Bush is Catholic?

 

[Kaninchen]

Granted, it is correct and fair to say that Catholics were involved, some in a very large way. CAn it be said that the Catholic Church, through its teachings and doctrines, caused people to join along?

Is that a question for me to answer? Or is it a question for Catholics to ask themselves? How far was the endemic anti-Semitism, the centuries of endemic anti-Semitism, of swathes of Catholic Europe the fault of the Church?

[Of course, I recognize that the Church itself has never done anything wrong ever to anybody in any way]

Was Hitler evil because he was exposed to Catholic teaching, as some claim?

Who?

 

[dmelosi]

Granted, it is correct and fair to say that Catholics were involved, some in a very large way. CAn it be said that the Catholic Church, through its teachings and doctrines, caused people to join along? Was Hitler evil because he was exposed to Catholic teaching, as some claim?

Catholics were involved in a very big way, there were about 3 million of them killed in the holocaust.

 

[ralphinal]

Is that a question for me to answer? Or is it a question for Catholics to ask themselves? How far was the endemic anti-Semitism, the centuries of endemic anti-Semitism, of swathes of Catholic Europe the fault of the Church?

[Of course, I recognize that the Church itself has never done anything wrong ever to anybody in any way]

Who?

Actually, it is a question for anyone to ask themselves, but I did want your answer.

Again, I am not sure how much anti-semitism was taught by Church doctrine. I know that, for example, some Lutheran groups are taught anti-semetic doctrines. I am not asking was it fostered or encouraged, but did the Church teach it.

Who claims that the CAtholic Church produced Hitler? Mostly goofballs who hate the Catholic Church.

 

[Kaninchen]

Catholics were involved in a very big way, there were about 3 million of them killed in the holocaust.

You have evidence that they were killed ‘as Catholics’ or ‘as Poles who happened to be Catholics’?

 

[Kaninchen]

Again, I am not sure how much anti-semitism was taught by Church doctrine. I know that, for example, some Lutheran groups are taught anti-semetic doctrines. I am not asking was it fostered or encouraged, but did the Church teach it.

No, it was all completely accidental.

 

[Freshman88]

You have evidence that they were killed ‘as Catholics’ or ‘as Poles who happened to be Catholics’?

They were killed for reasons of race, just as the Jews were.

The point is still made however, the driving force behind the Holocaust was not Catholicism but a ridiculous notion of racial superiority.

 

[Lui]

What did Hitler believe in?

Some theories

Faithful Roman Catholic
Dissadent Roman Catholic
Agnoistic
Atheist
Occultist
Jew?

Please, I want a straight answer. I don’t want dogmatic preaching from atheists saying that Hitler used Christanity to carry out violence, it is clearly eveident that he was a hyprocite (saying he was faithful to Rome but at the same time destroying churches and killing priests)

An atheist who used to be Roman Catholic.

 

[ralphinal]

No, it was all completely accidental.

I was not expecting this kind of answer from you. I thought for sure you would have more to say.

 

[ASimpleSinner]

What did Hitler believe in?

Some theories

Faithful Roman Catholic
Dissadent Roman Catholic
Agnoistic
Atheist
Occultist
Jew?

Please, I want a straight answer. I don’t want dogmatic preaching from atheists saying that Hitler used Christanity to carry out violence, it is clearly eveident that he was a hyprocite (saying he was faithful to Rome but at the same time destroying churches and killing priests)

Hitler worshipped - if not by name, certainly by deed - Evil.

He was baptized - by accounts I have read - in the Catholic Church, but like Judas himself who was in the company of the Lord Jesus Christ in the flesh, Hitler had the free will to reject God and turn to sin and selfishness, and so very obviously did so.

It is my sincere hope that this thread was not started so as to “pin” this evil man to a religion and cast aspersions through guilt by association.

I am a Catholic, proudly and gratefully so. If tomorrow I reject God and His grace and tacitly accept satan, all his lies, all his empty promises, and do something really horrible like go on a killing spree, it will NOT be (in any way shape or form except a demonstration of my REJECTION of the Catholic Faith) because of the Catholic Faith.

So I am left wondering what the motivation is behind trying to connect this evil man to a religion.

 

[Kaninchen]

I was not expecting this kind of answer from you. I thought for sure you would have more to say.

Perhaps it takes a better question?

 

[ralphinal]

Perhaps it takes a better question?

I thought I asked a good one. I might have been wrong. If I can come up with a better way to ask it, I will.

 

[Lapell]

Hi

Why it becomes so important. He is dead; and he no longer affects our lives?

Thanks

Why is it important? Because there are people bashing the Catholic Church because those who conducted the Holocaust supposedly were Catholics!

 

[Lapell]

Hi

It is very strange; the Atheists says and prove that Hitler was a Catholic, and the Catholic say that he was an enemy of the Catholics or Catholicism. Nobdoy wants to own him and want to shift the burden or blame on others. A poor soul.

Thanks

Well, he was baptized a Catholic! But at a certain point he stopped going to Mass and rejected the Catholic faith. And then became an enemy of the Catholics. It’s so obvious when the Catholic clergy were next on his list after the Jews.
As for the “religion” he built for himself there appears to be some great room for the theories pushed by Margaret Sanger, that those in society who are useless or not bringing profit should be eliminated, or something quite approaching this… a scary idea anyway!

 

[Freshman88]

At any rate, Hitler was an avid nationalist and a eugenicist, both of which are condemned by the Catholic Church. If it was nationalism and eugenics which inspired his holocaust, how can the Church be blamed, when it was these very elements which the Church condemned?

 

[Lapell]

The past century was the bloddiest most violent century in history. There was more blood spilled than in all previous centuries combined. WWII saw tens of millions of deaths, the majority of which was civilian death. It was initiated by an atheist ideology. Stalin murdered 20 million of his own people, starved 7 million Ukranians and sent off another 7 million to die in the gulags. Mao murdered 150 million Chinese. Pol Pot murdered 40 percent of his people in his infamous killing fields. All of it under the auspices of atheist ideology. Americans have murdered tens of millions of their unborn and the world wide total is many multiples higher. This is under the auspices of governemt by the people which insists there is no place in it for the voice of religion.

grandfather, where did you get the numbers about Mao’s victims and Pol Pot? Of course, with their huge population it’s certainly possible…

 

[Lapell]

Threads about Hitler’s religion or (particularly) Pius XII are wonderfully irrelevant I always think. After lots of posts proving ‘conclusively’ not only that, under no circumstances whatsoever was any of it the fault of any Catholic but of atheists, protestants or pagans but also that every rabbi ever to bump into Pius immediately converted to Catholicism, everybody can sit around waiting for the next opportunity to convince themselves that the Reich’s main purpose was to persecute Catholics.

Kaninchen, the remark was that Hitler considered Pius XII an arch-enemy, couldn’t it be true? It doesn’t necessarily follows from it that the Catholics were first and foremost as enemy no.1 in his view… I found a copy of Hitler’s Mein Kampf here in this shelter, and while shredding it to pieces I certainly notice the titles on top of the pages. He certainly hated the Jews very much and it seemed to obsess him even more than the Catholics… but if you were first the Catholics were not far behind, at least our clergy!

 

[ralphinal]

grandfather, where did you get the numbers about Mao’s victims and Pol Pot? Of course, with their huge population it’s certainly possible…

For what it is worth, I’ve seen that figure before for Pol. Usually, it was represented as between 30 and 40%, but still.

 

[Lapell]

Threads about Hitler’s religion or (particularly) Pius XII are wonderfully irrelevant I always think.

What makes you say they are irrelevant?

By Catholicism, or by Catholics? If you speak of Catholicism, it has to do with what the Catholic faith teaches. Don’t confuse it with decisions taken by even some Catholic clergy people, please!

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