M
MagdalenaRita
Guest
Thank you, though, I guess I mean I was wanting to hear Cardinal Arinze’s words, when, where and why he said what he said.
- Status
O
otjm
Guest
If you Google Rome Clarifies: OK to kneel after Communion you should come up with the article in Catholic News Agency which gives his quote.
https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/rome_clarifies_ok_to_kneel_after_communion
https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/rome_clarifies_ok_to_kneel_after_communion
M
MagdalenaRita
Guest
So this is about kneeling after communion, not about holding hands during the Our Father.
T
Taras_Bulba
Guest
Topic seems to have drifted.
P
pnewton
Guest
No problem. I have looked this up enough, it did not take much time. It is dated, some what, but it is really a good Q and A session.
Listen around 53 minutes, but the whole thing is pretty cool.
Listen around 53 minutes, but the whole thing is pretty cool.
O
otjm
Guest
That is correct; but as far as I know, there has not been an official “dubium” on hand holding, although there have been comments about various people writing Rome about the matter.
On the other hand, his comment does to an extent support the fact that Rome does not seem overly interested in minutiae such as how we hold our hands at any point during Mass, with one exception: reception of Communion in the Hand.
As holding hands during the Our Father has been around for over 50 years, I suspect that it will remain a matter for which Rome chooses to make no comment; if they were not particularly concerned over how a specific statement in the GIRM could be interpreted as Cardinal Arinze did, it is somewhat less than likely they will intervene on the matter of holding hands during the Our Father.
On the other hand, his comment does to an extent support the fact that Rome does not seem overly interested in minutiae such as how we hold our hands at any point during Mass, with one exception: reception of Communion in the Hand.
As holding hands during the Our Father has been around for over 50 years, I suspect that it will remain a matter for which Rome chooses to make no comment; if they were not particularly concerned over how a specific statement in the GIRM could be interpreted as Cardinal Arinze did, it is somewhat less than likely they will intervene on the matter of holding hands during the Our Father.
O
otjm
Guest
Actually, the “drift” seems to apply to the matter as it indicated, at least when Cardinal Arinze was head of the dicastery involved in liturgy, as to how Rome responded on a specific matter - and that response was less than absolutist.
M
MagdalenaRita
Guest
So, again, here in this talk he is speaking of where parishes are requiring people to stand after communion, which can be difficult for some to do. It would be difficult for me to stand until after all have received. He said that idea came after Vatican II and it is certain dioceses that were enforcing this.
And we can certainly try to apply this to hand holding and orans posture but that is not what he was talking about. As I have said earlier, the problem I have with hand holding and orans posture is when it interferes with some one else’s worship at Mass, and it does happen.
I noticed he also said, “don’t go home and say Cardinal Arinze told us…”
50 years seems like a long time when you are living it but for the Church it is not even a drop in a bucket. There is always a possibility and a good one that in time Rome will clear up a lot of misunderstandings when it comes to the Eucharist. I truly expect that to be happening in the future.
Last edited:
O
otjm
Guest
I have no idea what this refers to, as it is not part of the thread. However, Rome cannot do what the laity is not taught and does not teach. And I will let that matter go at that.
The reference to 50 years is an indirect reference to Peter Kreeft, who has remarked several times concerning matters which continue for 40 year (one remark) and 30 years (a more recent remark). As I have not followed up with th Professor/Canon lawyer, I will leave it at that.
As to the issue of standing after Communion, it was the rule written in the GIRM; so if they were enforcing it, they were following the language of the GIRM, the specific rules set forth by Rome. That is how the question arose; Rome started it (rule) and people were, for lack of a better term, “amazed”.
I get it that you don’t like holding hands. I am not proposing it; I don’t have a dog in the fight. It doesn’t bother me either way.
Happy new Year; may it be a blessed one.
P
pnewton
Guest
And you are absolutely right to object. Like I have said before, as I am visibly in the front, I will usually not hold hands so those few (and there are few in my parish) who do not are not alone, and so that we all realize it is not a posture that we are supposed to be taking, that is, a proscribed posture.
T
Taras_Bulba
Guest
The other thought I had about the practice of holding hands is that I don’t recall anyone ever doing this when I used to live in Poland. I would be curious to know in how many, and which countries this practice extends. I don’t expect an English language site to be representative of Catholicism worldwide, however.
M
MagdalenaRita
Guest
This was posted on one of the parishes I attend website:
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
It seems to me there is a move to re-teach appropriate postures for Mass.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
It seems to me there is a move to re-teach appropriate postures for Mass.
Last edited:
B
babochka
Guest
This poster isn’t terribly clear on what to do with the hands while standing. It doesn’t appear to be "prayer position
, based on the angle. Is it hands on hips? Hands clasped in front, at hip level? Or clasped in back? It is hard to tell what they expect you to do with your hands. They must have chosen a neutral posture, since the official documents are also neutral.Overall, it is a good infographic. I like how they include the that the kneeling after the Lamb of God might vary from place to place. They don’t mention that it also might vary during the Eucharistic prayer. Most countries only kneel for the consecration; the US practice is an exception to the norm.
Last edited:
M
MagdalenaRita
Guest
Yes I agree the standing image isn’t too clear though it could be just standing with hands folded in prayer position in front of you and perhaps at hip or waist level.This poster isn’t terribly clear on what to do with the hands while standing. It doesn’t appear to be "prayer position
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
B
bobnjohn
Guest
If you want to know the position of hands during prayer, simply look at Mary’s hands in the image given in our Lady of Guadalupe. That is her true image, the same one St John described in Revelation. Look at her hands…
E
esieffe
Guest
I try whenever possible not to hold hands. I feel the focus should be on the prayer, not on when to raise your hands etc. In my church there was an emergency notice that at one mass, there was someone with measles. Highly contagious for many. A lot of people wash their hands by putting soap on their hands and then sending it right down the drain rather than rubbing them together for fifteen seconds.
Sounds silly, but I got type B flu last Christmas. It’s no joke.
Sounds silly, but I got type B flu last Christmas. It’s no joke.
K
Katerina
Guest
Coronavirus has been confirmed in my area now. Although there were no announcements suspending hand contact during Mass, I noticed a number of people flashing peace signs and waving instead of shaking hands during the Sign of Peace this week. I hope my parish will take a temporary beak from hand contact. In my line of work, I am very likely to be exposed to it. I am always mindful of that and try to be extremely clean, wash my hands at the drop of a hat, don’t go to Mass sick, etc, but I could still be an unwitting carrier. My Purell and I will continue to be extra vigilant.
- Status