Holding hands during the Our Father

[estesbob]

I wish I could say that same.

I have been KNEELING, in prayer, and had PEOPLE (as in ‘more than one’) to come over the pews to grab my arms. I had a person to grab my arm so hard that my rotator cuff was tender for two days. ‘No, I do not want to hold hands with you’… it’s nothing personal. But if I have to stop praying in order to get to you, then forget it! I’m here to ~pray~, not to hold your hand!

That is what call “Kung Fu” hand holding parishes-they not only hold hands in the pews but even across the aisles, Ill be honest-on the rare ocassions wherer i run into that i follw the axiom “when in Rome…”

 

[CatholicFireman]

She said it to me at the Sign of Peace, too

Sheesh, trying to make you feel guilty during the sign of peace?

My, how “charitable”.

Like you said, oh well…for that parish. Time to look for one that makes me feel at home.

 

[Lormar]

I find the direct and truthful approach works the best.

Just smile and say, “No.” Or, just smile and shake your head no.

I guarantee you, they’ll get the idea.

In case that doesn’t work, be juggling a missal and a rosary in your hands. Hopefully, they’ll notice you are not free to do what they took from AA meetings.

 

[FAB]

Threads like this are always a little humerous to me. The extends some of you will go not the grasp the hand of your brother or sister next you. What do you do during the kiss of peace? Are they not the same hands you now take that just moments before in prayer refused?
There are practices in the Church that have been initiated by the layity and adopted by the Church as a whole. I know the auguments against holding hands during the Lord’s prayer, But often to me they come from stuborness, that ones personal prayer is more important. We pray as a community, holding each other’s hands is a sure sign, at least for a few moments, to remind us of that community and the strenght of prayer when shared in one voice.
It also representative of a sign that we are all equal in the eyes of the Lord. We grasp each other’s hand, rich and poor, old and young, of all races.
I know many theologians want to debat the correctness of this practice, but in the end, it may come down to the collective wisdom of the faithful who’s vast majority embrace it.

Peace,
FAB

 

[Lormar]

Threads like this are always a little humerous to me. The extends some of you will go not the grasp the hand of your brother or sister next you. What do you do during the kiss of peace? Are they not the same hands you now take that just moments before in prayer refused?
There are practices in the Church that have been initiated by the layity and adopted by the Church as a whole. I know the auguments against holding hands during the Lord’s prayer, But often to me they come from stuborness, that ones personal prayer is more important. We pray as a community, holding each other’s hands is a sure sign, at least for a few moments, to remind us of that community and the strenght of prayer when shared in one voice.
It also representative of a sign that we are all equal in the eyes of the Lord. We grasp each other’s hand, rich and poor, old and young, of all races.
I know many theologians want to debat the correctness of this practice, but in the end, it may come down to the collective wisdom of the faithful who’s vast majority embrace it.

Peace,
FAB

 

[damooster]

A couple of weeks ago, I had a person come to me and say, ‘what would a visitor think if they came to our church and saw that you wouldn’t hold hands with any one?’

I’m sure she meant well, and didn’t mean to be offensive, but I was offended.

No, she did not mean well. She spotted someone who was a threat to what she believed the Church should be, and she attacked that threat.

She may have been polite and smiling, but believe me: you are now on her radar. You are the person who will not hold hands during the Lord’s Prayer, and she’s not going to stop until she gets you to go along. Then she’ll move on to the next “unwelcoming” parishioner until the non-hand holders are either holding hands or have left the parish.

If a couple wants to hold hands, fine. That’s them. Or if they want to hold hands with anyone that wants to, fine. But to go around and try to impose this on people is rude, obnoxious, and an abuse. If you’re worried about her approaching you again, simply carry a missal or a copy of the GIRM with you, and ask her to show you documentation that requires you to hold hands.

I’ve had this discussion with people who approached me with the same questions. I’ve been to multiple parishes where people have tried to force me to hold their hands and I don’t budge.

We all have to realize that there are people who want to change the Church as we know it.

 

[damooster]

Threads like this are always a little humerous to me. The extends some of you will go not the grasp the hand of your brother or sister next you. What do you do during the kiss of peace? Are they not the same hands you now take that just moments before in prayer refused?
There are practices in the Church that have been initiated by the layity and adopted by the Church as a whole. I know the auguments against holding hands during the Lord’s prayer, But often to me they come from stuborness, that ones personal prayer is more important. We pray as a community, holding each other’s hands is a sure sign, at least for a few moments, to remind us of that community and the strenght of prayer when shared in one voice.
It also representative of a sign that we are all equal in the eyes of the Lord. We grasp each other’s hand, rich and poor, old and young, of all races.
I know many theologians want to debat the correctness of this practice, but in the end, it may come down to the collective wisdom of the faithful who’s vast majority embrace it.

Peace,
FAB

Obedience. If the Church wanted you to hold hands during the Lord’s Prayer, the Church would have directed you to do so. And then it wouldn’t have said in Vatican II documents, multiple times, that no one is to change the liturgy, not even a priest.

Obedience.

 

[CatholicFireman]

Threads like this are always a little humerous to me. The extends some of you will go not the grasp the hand of your brother or sister next you. What do you do during the kiss of peace? Are they not the same hands you now take that just moments before in prayer refused?
There are practices in the Church that have been initiated by the layity and adopted by the Church as a whole. I know the auguments against holding hands during the Lord’s prayer, But often to me they come from stuborness, that ones personal prayer is more important. We pray as a community, holding each other’s hands is a sure sign, at least for a few moments, to remind us of that community and the strenght of prayer when shared in one voice.
It also representative of a sign that we are all equal in the eyes of the Lord. We grasp each other’s hand, rich and poor, old and young, of all races.
I know many theologians want to debat the correctness of this practice, but in the end, it may come down to the collective wisdom of the faithful who’s vast majority embrace it.

Peace,
FAB

Great, if you want to hold hands, by all means do. But don’t force it on me or anyone else that chooses not to hold hands. Mutual respect, my friend.

Pax†

 

[roadsend]

Threads like this are always a little humerous to me. The extends some of you will go not the grasp the hand of your brother or sister next you. What do you do during the kiss of peace? Are they not the same hands you now take that just moments before in prayer refused?
There are practices in the Church that have been initiated by the layity and adopted by the Church as a whole. I know the auguments against holding hands during the Lord’s prayer, But often to me they come from stuborness, that ones personal prayer is more important. We pray as a community, holding each other’s hands is a sure sign, at least for a few moments, to remind us of that community and the strenght of prayer when shared in one voice.
It also representative of a sign that we are all equal in the eyes of the Lord. We grasp each other’s hand, rich and poor, old and young, of all races.
I know many theologians want to debat the correctness of this practice, but in the end, it may come down to the collective wisdom of the faithful who’s vast majority embrace it.

Peace,
FAB

Maybe we should be holding hands any time we pray during the Mass starting with the Gloria, Credo, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei.
If it is such a good idea for the Our Father, why not the rest of these?
Perhaps I will grab and raise the hands of those next to me at the Gloria next Sunday.
How do you think folks will react?

 

[CB_Catholic]

I do not like the hand-holding either, and I would say only about 10% of the people in my parish do it, mostly families. No one has ever tried to grab my hand…until last Sunday. I was sitting next to a frail, elderly woman who looked to be close to 90 years old. She was with her daughter. She had trouble even changing positions, but she did it. She even managed to kneel. When the Our Father began, she looked at me, smiled, held out a slightly trembly, fragile hand … and there was no way I was going to refuse her. No way was I going to risk offending this precious elderly soul who managed to get herself ready for Mass, get to Mass, and who struggled during Mass to assume the proper positions, even though she didn’t have to. No way…I took that fragile hand very gently in mine and felt honored…

 

[ProVobis]

I know many theologians want to debat the correctness of this practice, but in the end, it may come down to the collective wisdom of the faithful who’s vast majority embrace it.

Nope. The Church is not a democracy. The majority doesn’t know better than Christ.

And, by its nature, hand holding focuses on oneself rather than God, especially when holding hands with a stranger. The handshake of peace is enough, in my opinion, to acknowledge those around you as members of a community which worships God.

 

[Apryl]

Threads like this are always a little humerous to me. The extends some of you will go not the grasp the hand of your brother or sister next you. What do you do during the kiss of peace? Are they not the same hands you now take that just moments before in prayer refused?
There are practices in the Church that have been initiated by the layity and adopted by the Church as a whole. I know the auguments against holding hands during the Lord’s prayer, But often to me they come from stuborness, that ones personal prayer is more important. We pray as a community, holding each other’s hands is a sure sign, at least for a few moments, to remind us of that community and the strenght of prayer when shared in one voice.
It also representative of a sign that we are all equal in the eyes of the Lord. We grasp each other’s hand, rich and poor, old and young, of all races.
I know many theologians want to debat the correctness of this practice, but in the end, it may come down to the collective wisdom of the faithful who’s vast majority embrace it.

Peace,
FAB

Zat right?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

However did we as a Church manage to exist before some 30 years ago some people decided that we needed to incorporate into the liturgy the outward gesture of hand holding at the Lords prayer?

Mercy upon us, what were we thinking all those years? Imagine, all those years where we totally ignored the community by not even thinking of grabbing each other’s hands to SHOW our solidarity with each other.

All those wasted years where we just 'said the black and did the red. Focusing on God as individuals while present in community. What were we thinking? How could God know we were a community unless we showed Him by insisting on holding hands?

I don’t know how the Church functioned all those years. Amazing, isn’t it?

 

[Apryl]

I do not like the hand-holding either, and I would say only about 10% of the people in my parish do it, mostly families. No one has ever tried to grab my hand…until last Sunday. I was sitting next to a frail, elderly woman who looked to be close to 90 years old. She was with her daughter. She had trouble even changing positions, but she did it. She even managed to kneel. When the Our Father began, she looked at me, smiled, held out a slightly trembly, fragile hand … and there was no way I was going to refuse her. No way was I going to risk offending this precious elderly soul who managed to get herself ready for Mass, get to Mass, and who struggled during Mass to assume the proper positions, even though she didn’t have to. No way…I took that fragile hand very gently in mine and felt honored…

<<<< HUG >>>>

And I think you should feel honored. That is a sweet story and a wonderful moment.

I believe I, too, would have taken her hand.

But then again, I don’t flat-out-refuse to hold hands, but I’m not going to stop, or wait, to pray in order to move to someone else in order to hold their hand

That’s one of the things that bothers me: moving in order to hold hands… and sometimes, going to hold hands so that you have to be a contortionist in order to hold Person A and Person B’s hands… while you are stretched across a bunch of other pews.

It was suggested that our parish, one of the largest church buildings in the diocese, rope off the last few pews to get more people to sit up front. No one wants to make people feel ‘uncomfortable’, so they don’t do that, and let people sit where they want (short of the old Choir Loft). We have ushers, but we still have pews where no one is sitting right next to pews with people sitting.

I could move to the back of the church so that I would be ‘alone’, but I would also be behind others and that would be a HUGE distraction for me: seeing people playing during Mass, reading, talking, eating, chewing gum, falling asleep. When I sit in the front, I can’t see them. I see what I came to see: the altar, the Mass, and what that includes.

Honestly, if we would make others a little more ‘uncomfortable’ and limit where people can sit so that it’s not so sparsely filled in, I would hold hands… with those adjacent to me, and who WANTED to hold hands. But I’m not about to go through the gyrations that it would take to get me next to others so that we can hold hands for a prayer that I can just as easily pray with everyone by not holding two people’s hands.

Plus, I don’t have to wonder if they sneezed into their hands, if they coughed into their hands, if they are a foot taller or shorter than I am, if they are going to give me ‘the squeeze’ while we are still praying, or if they are going to hurt my fingers when they give the squeeze. These are things I think I would be willing to ignore if I happened to be next to someone in order to hold their hand.

Yes, this is a big deal to me. I see it in so many different churches. I don’t mind when people choose to hold hands, but to ‘make’ someone? No fair.

 

[VeroNihilVerius]

As far as I can see, holding hands during the Our Father is not an appropriate practice, according to multiple sources, including CA’s own Karl Keating.

ewtn.com/expert/answers/holding_hands_at_mass.htm
catholic.com/newsletters/kke_060411.asp

Perhaps, before looking at why the Church should do what it is that we like, we should ask why would we change what has been in place without sufficient cause?

Secondarily, are we going to Mass to please ourselves, or even others? Because loving someone is teaching them what is right. It might seem compassionate to take the hand of someone else, and perhaps outside of Mass, it is. But, Mass is not about social connections, or even pleasing others. It is a time where we worship our Creator, in the prescribed format. Humility, submission, and obedience cannot be overstated.

 

[corsair]

As a matter of fact, our Abp, issued a strong request (nobody seems to want to issue an order) to NOT hold hands during the Pater Noster. This request was issued about 7 years ago and was promptly ignored (you expected something different?)

 

[MarkThompson]

As a matter of fact, our Abp, issued a strong request (nobody seems to want to issue an order) to NOT hold hands during the Pater Noster. This request was issued about 7 years ago and was promptly ignored (you expected something different?)

I’m not aware of anything in canon law that would entitle an ordinary to absolutely prescribe or proscribe any one posture for the faithful during the Pater Noster.

 

[PA650]

Nope. The Church is not a democracy. The majority doesn’t know better than Christ.

And, by its nature, hand holding focuses on oneself rather than God, especially when holding hands with a stranger. The handshake of peace is enough, in my opinion, to acknowledge those around you as members of a community which worships God.

I tend to prefer a Mass focused on God than the innovations of Man. Perhaps others will come to terms that it is the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and it is not to become an occasion to glorify ourselves.

 

[MarkThompson]

I tend to prefer a Mass focused on God than the innovations of Man. Perhaps others will come to terms that it is the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and it is not to become an occasion to glorify ourselves.

Out of curiosity, do you see hand-holding as an attempt to glorify ourselves? That’s a spin I haven’t yet heard put on it.

 

[pismopal]

Threads like this are always a little humerous to me. The extends some of you will go not the grasp the hand of your brother or sister next you. What do you do during the kiss of peace? Are they not the same hands you now take that just moments before in prayer refused?
There are practices in the Church that have been initiated by the layity and adopted by the Church as a whole. I know the auguments against holding hands during the Lord’s prayer, But often to me they come from stuborness, that ones personal prayer is more important. We pray as a community, holding each other’s hands is a sure sign, at least for a few moments, to remind us of that community and the strenght of prayer when shared in one voice.
It also representative of a sign that we are all equal in the eyes of the Lord. We grasp each other’s hand, rich and poor, old and young, of all races.
I know many theologians want to debat the correctness of this practice, but in the end, it may come down to the collective wisdom of the faithful who’s vast majority embrace it.

Peace,
FAB

I am not a judge of “vast majority” but I have noted in my travels that the vast majority don’t hold hands. My parish does it to the extent that an attempt to avoid it is a faux paux. I wish authority would either strongly discourage the practice or codify it. My prayer goes to God regardless of where my hands are but I prefer following the rules…hand holding is not the rule:shrug: