Holding Hands during the Our Father

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Ummmmm nor my own internet.
I use coffee shops, mostly…I can’t have the volume on.

I’ll earmark it so I can enjoy it when I am in hotels such as this week.
(traveling for my employment)
 
Moore11 said:
I think we are ships passing in the night here. I don’t find anyone who is talking about the things you are describing, I will say again. Of course those things are not the problem.
I’m not sure why we are even talking about them. What is it like at your parish? do many people hold hands? Do they hold hands with people they don’t know every time the prayer is said?
For the sake of this discussion I think we can all agree that hand holding in extraordinary circumstances is ok. Ad with holding say, a child’s hand in Mass or a wife.
I’m not sure you are familiar with the practice as it is being described.
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I am very familiar with the abuse you are talking about, although it is currently not really an issue at the parish I attend. My point was that the way people were talking about it could be confusing, so maybe people should be clear that they are talking about the abuse being wrong, not the practice in and of itself. 🤷
 
hmm…my daily parish is pretty traditional and yet I see people hold their hands palms up during the Our Father…only a few people hold hands…but we usually have a lot of space between us. What about doing the sign of the cross during the “forgive us our sins and bring us to everlasting life?” It seems like people do a lot of things that are not necessarily listed in the GIRM…what are we to do with all that?🤷

Or those that detest the holding of the hands…stating it’s not in the liturgy but totally disregard the sign of peace…prefering…as one poster put it “give people the cold shoulder”. It seems like we pick and choose based on our preferences…
 
thewanderer said:
I am very familiar with the abuse you are talking about, although it is currently not really an issue at the parish I attend. My point was that the way people were talking about it could be confusing, so maybe people should be clear that they are talking about the abuse being wrong, not the practice in and of itself. 🤷
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You have made this point several times and several times I have agreed with you. I dont recall anyone on this thread being confused as to what we were talking about.

********* Disclaimer:

We are not talking of someone holding the hand of a child, a person in pain, a loved one, or anything of the sort.

Hopefully that will help.

Seems kind of common sense to me.🤷
 
Annabelle_Marie said:
hmm…my daily parish is pretty traditional and yet I see people hold their hands palms up during the Our Father…only a few people hold hands…but we usually have a lot of space between us. What about doing the sign of the cross during the “forgive us our sins and bring us to everlasting life?” It seems like people do a lot of things that are not necessarily listed in the GIRM…what are we to do with all that?🤷

Or those that detest the holding of the hands…stating it’s not in the liturgy but totally disregard the sign of peace…prefering…as one poster put it “give people the cold shoulder”. It seems like we pick and choose based on our preferences…
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Well for one doing the sign of the cross does not impose on anyone else. As to anyone who would “cold shoulder” at the sign of peace with no other reason than offending someone… This is a long thread, I don’t recall anyone doing that but I would agree with you that that would be a bad bad thing.
 
Moore11 said:
Code: 
I'm still waiting for red rover to send someone right over at the Lords Prayer.:D
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Now I’m really going to have a hard time keeping a straight face when we say the Our Father during Mass. Thanks a lot! :rolleyes:😃
 
Annabelle_Marie said:
hmm…my daily parish is pretty traditional and yet I see people hold their hands palms up during the Our Father…only a few people hold hands…but we usually have a lot of space between us. What about doing the sign of the cross during the “forgive us our sins and bring us to everlasting life?” It seems like people do a lot of things that are not necessarily listed in the GIRM…what are we to do with all that?🤷

Or those that detest the holding of the hands…stating it’s not in the liturgy but totally disregard the sign of peace…prefering…as one poster put it “give people the cold shoulder”. It seems like we pick and choose based on our preferences…
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I agree, it is wrong to give someone the cold shoulder during the sign of peace. Even a smile and a nod is a good thing.

I think the people that hold their hands up during the Our Father would probably hold someone’s hand if someone was near and would hold hands with them. 🤷🤷 They tend to be of the same camp.

The other things you mention are private devotions and do not disturb another’s prayer.Someone could make the sign of the cross all they want when in the church or during mass and it isn’t hurting anyone else.That is their private devotion but if they tried to make other people do the same thing or if they turned and started making the sign of the cross over someone else and disturbing that person’s prayer that would not be good and it would disturb the attention our Lord is to be receiving. 😦

IMHO, I believe it will come to a point where priests will need to step in and say something so others are allowed to pray.

The sign of peace is the time to turn to our neighbors and offer the love of Christ.:yup:
 
Diana_Catherine said:
I agree, it is wrong to give someone the cold shoulder during the sign of peace. Even a smile and a nod is a good thing.

I think the people that hold their hands up during the Our Father would probably hold someone’s hand if someone was near and would hold hands with them. 🤷🤷 They tend to be of the same camp.

The other things you mention are private devotions and do not disturb another’s prayer.Someone could make the sign of the cross all they want when in the church or during mass and it isn’t hurting anyone else.That is their private devotion but if they tried to make other people do the same thing or if they turned and started making the sign of the cross over someone else and disturbing that person’s prayer that would not be good and it would disturb the attention our Lord is to be receiving. 😦

IMHO, I believe it will come to a point where priests will need to step in and say something so others are allowed to pray.

The sign of peace is the time to turn to our neighbors and offer the love of Christ.:yup:
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The sign of peace is a liturgical practice that should be obeyed. To not do so would be grave. I could understand someone with say, mental or physical situations that may not lead to them grabbing the hand of someone who had sneezed into it, but some sort of recognition and “peace be with you” should be practiced at all times.
If someone cold shouldered me I would calmly talk to them later. There may be a reason. But most likely my shin would hurt from my wife kicking me, she hates it when I say things to people.:eek:
 
Diana_Catherine said:
I agree, it is wrong to give someone the cold shoulder during the sign of peace. Even a smile and a nod is a good thing.

I think the people that hold their hands up during the Our Father would probably hold someone’s hand if someone was near and would hold hands with them. 🤷🤷 They tend to be of the same camp.

The other things you mention are private devotions and do not disturb another’s prayer.Someone could make the sign of the cross all they want when in the church or during mass and it isn’t hurting anyone else.That is their private devotion but if they tried to make other people do the same thing or if they turned and started making the sign of the cross over someone else and disturbing that person’s prayer that would not be good and it would disturb the attention our Lord is to be receiving. 😦

IMHO, I believe it will come to a point where priests will need to step in and say something so others are allowed to pray.

The sign of peace is the time to turn to our neighbors and offer the love of Christ.:yup:
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I put in about the other stuff because some people will say holding hands is not specified in the GIRM and therefore we should NOT be doing it. My point was that there are other things that are not specified in the GIRM but others so it…so where do you draw the line?

I like this from EWTN:

This gesture has come into widespread use, often leaving bishops and pastors at a loss as to how to reverse the situation. For individuals, I would recommend closed eyes and a prayerful posture as sufficient response, rather than belligerence. Most laity, and probably many priests, are blind to the liturgical significance of interrupting the flow of the Mass in this way.* It is not necessary to lose one’s peace over this or be an irritation to others**.** Some proportion is required**. If asked why you don’t participate, simply, plainly and charitably tell the questioner of your discovery. *
 
Annabelle_Marie said:
I put in about the other stuff because some people will say holding hands is not specified in the GIRM and therefore we should NOT be doing it. My point was that there are other things that are not specified in the GIRM but others so it…so where do you draw the line?

I like this from EWTN:

This gesture has come into widespread use, often leaving bishops and pastors at a loss as to how to reverse the situation. For individuals, I would recommend closed eyes and a prayerful posture as sufficient response, rather than belligerence. Most laity, and probably many priests, are blind to the liturgical significance of interrupting the flow of the Mass in this way.** It is not necessary to lose one’s peace over this or be an irritation to others**.** Some proportion is required**. If asked why you don’t participate, simply, plainly and charitably tell the questioner of your discovery.
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I like it too. But quite frankly (and by no means is this the case in every parish, obviously), the people who have been belligerent have been the hand holders, not the ones who wish not to hold. And the people who get irritated or irritate others., . the same.

We all have different experiences depending on where we are.

But I agree 100% that whether you want to ‘hold my hand’ or not, the issue is not over what ‘I want’ but over what ‘we’ want.

If John and Jane both want to hold hands. . .fine.
If John wants to and Jane does not. . .
Then Jane smiles and nods at John. John, despite wanting to hold hands, does NOT get irritated or try to grab Jane’s hand or turn his back on her later at the Kiss of Peace or audibly wonder why so many ‘cold people’ come to Mass because they’re HYPOCRITES etc.

And if John doesn’t want to hold hands and Jane does. . .
Then John smiles and nods at Jane. John, despite not wanting to hold hands, does NOT get irritated, turn away from Jane in a huff then and later, or audibly wonder why so many ‘touchy feely’ people want to louse up Mass with their crazy gestures.

Sound good?
 
“This gesture” was taught to me by priests. Even seminaries did this from my recollections during daily masses. All the seminarians would go to the altar during mass and during the Lord’s Prayer they all held hands. So, a lot of this was taught to the laity by the clergy. It spread like wildfire. I always avoided holding hands, but it was also felt rude to turn away. It’s like not giving someone the sign of peace. So, unless the clergy start telling people not to do it, then there is no justification for scandalizing those that do it. It’s like homosexuality has become vogue among Catholics. I see rainbow bumper stickers at church. Some Protestants think we’ve shown our true selves by the scandalous things we do. Notice I say “we”. We’re all brothers and sisters, Catholics that is. It’s clown masses that I’m more concerned about.
 
Tantum_ergo said:
I like it too. But quite frankly (and by no means is this the case in every parish, obviously), the people who have been belligerent have been the hand holders, not the ones who wish not to hold. And the people who get irritated or irritate others., . the same.

We all have different experiences depending on where we are.

But I agree 100% that whether you want to ‘hold my hand’ or not, the issue is not over what ‘I want’ but over what ‘we’ want.

If John and Jane both want to hold hands. . .fine.
If John wants to and Jane does not. . .
Then Jane smiles and nods at John. John, despite wanting to hold hands, does NOT get irritated or try to grab Jane’s hand or turn his back on her later at the Kiss of Peace or audibly wonder why so many ‘cold people’ come to Mass because they’re HYPOCRITES etc.

And if John doesn’t want to hold hands and Jane does. . .
Then John smiles and nods at Jane. John, despite not wanting to hold hands, does NOT get irritated, turn away from Jane in a huff then and later, or audibly wonder why so many ‘touchy feely’ people want to louse up Mass with their crazy gestures.

Sound good?
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How does one belligerently NOT hold hands? The assault (I know I know flowery language) is coming from the person sticking their hand all up in your space.

All the stuff about john, jane, cold shoulders, forced handholding, slights, offending, only strengthens the point that if it is this complicated, perhaps we should just pray, and concentrate on the altar.
 
Moore11 said:
How does one belligerently NOT hold hands? The assault (I know I know flowery language) is coming from the person sticking their hand all up in your space.

All the stuff about john, jane, cold shoulders, forced handholding, slights, offending, only strengthens the point that if it is this complicated, perhaps we should just pray, and concentrate on the altar.
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In all due respect I have not seen this…I will glance over at the person…if they do not look at me or keep their hands clasped…no big deal:shrug:

Same with the sign of peace…some want to shake hands…some don’t …no biggie:shrug: it’s people that won’t even LOOK at you for the sign of peace…that are totally grumpy and look straight ahead with a scowl that I don’t care for nor do I understand.
 
I fold my hands and focus my gaze towards the tabernacle or upwards.

I don’t have a problem if people want to hold hands with each other. I did get slightly annoyed if they try to force me to hold hands with them, but no one has done that in recent memory.

In Christ,
Bryan
 
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