Holding hands during the Our Father?

[blackrobe]

My opinion [which is worth exactly what you paid for it]:

It is one of many modern affectations which have the effect of making people feel better by anesthetizing their guilt over failure to actually live the Gospel.

JSA

 

[thistle]

Quite true, the Church will survive. However, can you honestly say that the views put forth by our young friend Saint Jerome are true to Catholic tradition and the Catholic faith? When I see people trying their best to destroy the faith I get angry and maybe say things that I don’t think through clearly. I don’t want to see the Church broken up any more than it already is. There has been enough heresy spouted forth by people like this poster. I want people to recognize the gravity of the situation we as Catholics are facing.

I don’t have a problem with anyone holding hands (or not) during the Our Father but I agree with you his (St Jerome the poster) attitude towards priests is disrespectful and shows a lack of understanding of the Ordained Priesthood and the Priesthood of the Faithful. He seems to think they are essentially the same which of course is nonsense.

 

[MrS]

My opinion [which is worth exactly what you paid for it]:

It is one of many modern affectations which have the effect of making people feel better by anesthetizing their guilt over failure to actually live the Gospel.

JSA

you said a mouthful!!

(IMHO - which is worth a little less that what you paid for it)

.

 

[Maureen_Fiore]

I raise my hands/arms during the praying/singing of the Our Father…it was thought to me since i was a kid…

i dont if its wrong…

Who taught you to do this???

 

[MrS]

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_112.gif Hurry, Hurry

at this very moment, there are no moderators listed as being on line…

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/7/7_8_8.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_30_125.gif

we can assume any position we want!!!

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_5_135.gif

.

%between%

 

[ncjohn]

My opinion [which is worth exactly what you paid for it]:

It is one of many modern affectations which have the effect of making people feel better by anesthetizing their guilt over failure to actually live the Gospel.

JSA

Oh my!

So now on top of being irreverent, disobedient, attending mass only out of obligation, and having “decreased understanding”, I find out I am also suffering from guilt over failure to actually “live the gospel”. No wonder I’m so dysfunctional!!

I’ll need to let my Franciscan formation director know about this since our directive is “gospel to life and life to gospel”. And all of this time I thought our way of peace and charity toward all rather than judging people on surface externals was actually a gospel value. I guess I’ll need to find someplace else to go since those Franciscans are so challenged and out of line with the Church.

I guess I’ll have to write to Rome and ask if they can have those parts taken out of the Bible and the CCC so I won’t have to feel guilt for trying to follow them.

 

[MrS]

I’ll need to let my Franciscan formation director know about this since our directive is “gospel to life and life to gospel”. And all of this time I thought our way of peace and charity toward all rather than judging people on surface externals was actually a gospel value. I guess I’ll need to find someplace else to go since those Franciscans are so challenged and out of line with the Church.

:bigyikes: out of line??

A dear Franciscan priest, more like a brother to me than my own brother was moved by his Provencial to the retreat center in PA.

The experiences he “survived” in his nearly 30 years as a priest ranged from extreme liberal to extreme traditional. In no situation that I am aware of, did he ever get out of line.

Nor did he ever condone or encourage the lay innovations such as the subject of this thread. He continues to live the Gospel… from his heart, not his posture. We should all strive for this form of “active participation”.

.

 

[Walking_Home]

Quite true, the Church will survive. However, can you honestly say that the views put forth by our young friend Saint Jerome are true to Catholic tradition and the Catholic faith? When I see people trying their best to destroy the faith I get angry and maybe say things that I don’t think through clearly. I don’t want to see the Church broken up any more than it already is. There has been enough heresy spouted forth by people like this poster. I want people to recognize the gravity of the situation we as Catholics are facing.

---

Yes----the gravity of what we are facing-----goes much deeper than the abuses we see in our Masses.

 

[davy39]

I do hold hands during the Our Father. I would just as soon not do it, but my wife insists. What really bugs me is when somebody thumps you on the back from the pew behind, and wants to hold hands. If I wanted to hold theirs, I would have turned around and did it. Sometimes they make you feel like a corkscrew.

 

[Walking_Home]

Just to bring to light that not all Franciscans are cut from the same cloth as MrS’s friend. Our orders are not immune from being led astray.

ewtn.com/vexperts/showresult.asp?RecNum=466266&Forums=0&Experts=0&Days=2006&Author=&Keyword=Franciscan&pgnu=1&groupnum=0&record_bookmark=15&ORDER_BY_TXT=ORDER+BY+ReplyDate+DESC&start_at=

Changes in wording/consecration
Question from on 04-11-2006:
I attend a very vibrant parish near my place of work, where the Sacrament of Reconciliation is available every day, where the church is “packed” even during weekday Masses, and there are a lot of outreach programs.
However, I am very disturbed by some changes in wording to the Liturgy. For example, instead of “disciples” or “Apostles” the priests (who are Franciscans) of this church say, “friends.” (Example: “He took the cup… gave it to his friends…”)

And on Superbowl Sunday, the pastor closed the Mass saying, “The Mass has ended – GO STEELERS!!!” which I found very irreverent.

But one thing I am most concerned about, which to me is a serious matter, is that during the Consecration, the priests lift up the Host and the Chalice, then, put them back down on the altar, and only then do they say, “Do this in memory of me.”

I have never seen this happen before. Everywhere I have lived in the world, the priest holds the host, then the chalice, and while holding them speaks the words “do this in memory of me” – then lifts them up above his head.

These priests are not even holding onto the Host or Chalice when they say “do this in memory of me.” Does this make the Eucharist invalid?

God bless you!

Answer by Colin B. Donovan, STL on 05-30-2006:
The Mass …The things you mention are illicit, disedifying and should not be done, but the Masses are still valid.

 

[TheGarg]

you poor folk who are completely wimpy about touching other people would have had a very hard time at the ealry mass of christianity, …the sign of peace, as it is called today , is the “the kiss” , and it was right on the lips…hahahahaha…

 

[ComradeAndrei]

you poor folk who are completely wimpy about touching other people would have had a very hard time at the ealry mass of christianity, …the sign of peace, as it is called today , is the “the kiss” , and it was right on the lips…hahahahaha…

Pope Pius XII said in Mediator Dei that it is wrong to try to resurrect any old thing from little “t” tradition of long ago. So, the early “kiss of peace” (source on how this was really done?) is irrelevant.

 

[LilyM]

you poor folk who are completely wimpy about touching other people would have had a very hard time at the ealry mass of christianity, …the sign of peace, as it is called today , is the “the kiss” , and it was right on the lips…hahahahaha…

Well that was, if I recall rightly, part of the problem pagan Rome had with early Christianity, since of course people who kissed each other in public had to be getting up to all sorts of sexual immorality in private

 

[tkdnick]

I marked “hold hands”, but I only do that for sake of unity at my home parish. When I attend other parishes I do not hold hands.

 

[Victorious]

Well that was, if I recall rightly, part of the problem pagan Rome had with early Christianity, since of course people who kissed each other in public had to be getting up to all sorts of sexual immorality in private

Yeah, those pagan Romans were regular paragons of sexual morality, from Julius Caesar on down.

So if a stranger comes up to me at Mass and wants to give me a huge old smooch right on the kisser, I should let him, because that’s what the early Christians did (assuming that’s true)? The world is on notice that anyone I am not either married to or engaged to marry who tries that on me will be pounded into a jelly.

 

[paramedicgirl]

Yeah, those pagan Romans were regular paragons of sexual morality, from Julius Caesar on down.

So if a stranger comes up to me at Mass and wants to give me a huge old smooch right on the kisser, I should let him, because that’s what the early Christians did (assuming that’s true)? The world is on notice that anyone I am not either married to or engaged to marry who tries that on me will be pounded into a jelly.

 

[kim3260]

Not until I moved to the “Bible Belt” have I ever seen this in a Catholic Church. Everyone holding hands then lifting them up. Personally, I don’t like it but I do it now.

 

[THutch04]

I didn’t grow up Catholic, so I don’t know what it was like when I was much younger, but I do know that I never even considered the possibility that people would hold hands until I started going to Catholic Masses. My family isn’t particularly touchy either, so we never hold hands if it isn’t necessary. In all honesty, everytime I have to hold someone’s hand at school I’m still uncomfortable, and I’ve been here for 3 years now. I’m happy when I get a pew to myself because I know I won’t be put in that position.

I wish that there would be an actual decision one way or the other. I’ve seen priests actually order people to hold hands across the aisles, and I’ve seen people look down to try to find some way to avoid it. I don’t have an issue with the practice itself. I certainly see that it can be a very prayerful posture for many people, I know it helps many people able to pray better. I think everyone has a right to be comfortable at Mass, and be able to pray in the way best for them.

 

[ElizabethPH]

When I was growing up, nobody did it. I think the first time I ever saw this was when I was a teenager in the early 90’s. Now it seems that half the people or more in every single church I go to do it. Who started this? And why? It feels a bit awkward and uncomfortable, but perhaps this is just because I’m still not used to it. Also, I’ve heard some on EWTN say that its wrong to do so. If so, where does it specifically say that its wrong to hold hands during the Our Father?

Also, is raising your hands as the priest does a similar new thing? I also never saw this practice until recently, and now it seems those that don’t hold hands raise them up mimicking the priest’s actions. Is this proper?

I’ve always just folded my hands in prayer.

I’ll post a poll along with this to get some additional feedback.

I never hold hands…never have, folks try to grab my hand and I just don’t take it. It’s embarrassing for them I guess; once the priest ask everyone to join hands and I still didn’t do it…and the lady next to me poked me and I ignored her. I sort of felt bad about that. I never have done the hand raising thing either.

 

[kim3260]

I’d love to ignore them but I feel like I’m being rude and not accepting their ways, I’m the newcomer.