Holding hands during the Our Father?

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netmil(name removed by moderator) said:
When I spoke to the seniors at my past “Catholic Community”, they hated the handholding. Some with arthritic hands or shoulders had to physical pain from the “connection”. ** It means squat to hold a senior’s hand when they are so often abandoned outside of mass.**What would Jesus do? He would repect the personal space of those lonely people and go spend some time with them at the Senior Community. How many of us hold hands then not give them a thought for the rest of the week?
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Now that is well said. How many times do we see people say on here, that it is the friendly thing to do to hold a senior’s hand for the Our Father? What that senior needs is for someone to listen to them, and to spend time with them. If people want to show a senior a sense of community, it takes much more than a little hand-holding at Holy Mass.
 
ncjohn said:
I’m sure in your mind you have. But the fact of the matter is that the Church has given no indication whatsoever that it agrees with you. You have yet to show a single document in which the Vatican specifically addresses the issue in a way that agrees with what you say, in spite of all the convolutions of trying to make unrelated and irrelevant documents say something they were never meant to discuss.

This latest posting is yet another in the line of irrelevant: There is nothing in this issue that deals with liturgical texts. And the issue is precisely that nothing is prescribed so the “other matters that are prescribed” is totally irrelevant.

The only thing it takes to show that it is licit is the fact that the body to whom the authority has been delegated says “no position is prescribed” in the face of the specific question. Short of a Vatican document overruling that, it is the authoritative statement. You don’t get to prescribe when the conference says there is no prescription.

I’m done here as it is just the same stuff being regurgitated at this point.

Peace,
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Convolutions-----Oh my----we are picking at straws.
 
OK now that we have determined that anyone who holds hands during the Our father is going to hell we need to examine just HOW those who fold their hands should do so. We have two choices(acknowledging, of course, that anyone who stands with their hands at their sides is already damned) do you clasp your hands in a little ball or do reverently fold your hands together with the tips of your fingers pointing to the ceiling?

My personal opinion is that folding them in a little ball is an affront to God and an express ticket to hell(every picture I ever saw of Jesus praying had his hands folded with the fingers pointed skyward). I am very concerned that neither GIRM or the Vatican has addresses this!
 
prv said:
As for “What would Jesus Do,” well, that can be thrown around anyway you like it. I want to say that he would respect people’s right to keep to themselves.
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Dear PRV,
I am taken to the thought of:
Jeus intimately touched the Leper. Those others had shun!
May we always feel a deep peace reaching out to others.
Reflect on this!
We are very use to people maintiaining their personal space in this society. ie large cars,large homes, large worship spaces,
We feel we OWN and have BOUGHT our personal space.
Many times Jesus will ask us to come out of our Comfort Zone, recognize Christ in one another, and reach out to our fellow human being.
I am also thinking about Jesus washing the Disciples feet. This single act has brought us full realm into stewardship throughout history.

Also, Netmill(name removed by moderator), imagine you all up in arms about holding hands. What is it really taking off of you to physically touch another one of God’s Beloved children in Church.
Can you imagine, we have come to this. Holding, folding, My Goodness!!

Folding Hands:
Depending on what I am praying about our for, sometimes I fold my hands and lower my head deepy into by one hand folded over another, sometimes I intertwine my fingers in front of my abdomen, during the consecration I hold my folded hands just below my chest, after receiving Communion I hold my two hands touching slightly and slightly open to “continue receiving God’s Gift of Jesus”. Must we miss the forest for the trees, with this "smallness’ For GOD’s SAKE, get up in arms please about some real and true crimes against humanity.

Peace, Hope, Blessings
Lisa
 
netmil(name removed by moderator) said:
I’m not there to get some “community” on me. I’m there to worship Our Lord with the other souls of my parish. I don’t have to touch anyone to do it.
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I agree with this I think I would find another Parish if I had to hold a strangers hands. I wouldnt want a stranger holding my kids hands either. If other parish’s do this that is there choice and I am sure the people that attend there migh accept that. Although the 35 years things? I dont think that applys to every church. If my parish was like that before I started to attend that is one tradition i will not ever miss. Some people like thier personal space and do not want there attention of mass be detered by the invasion of thier own space.

I have experienced this before in a couple other church’s and i recall everyone calling eachother sister and brother and getting cups of juice in dixie cups for the wine. :eek: I remember talking to one there church followers that approached me and my friend who had taken me snapped back you should not be talking to him he is not one of our brothers yet as a sister you should know better. :confused: Although they held hands alot and I thought it was so wierd looking at everyones expressions on there face as they prayed holding hands closing there eyes and crying. Some people on this board may not think some of this stuff was strange but it seem very cult like and the thought of myself doing one these extremes gives me the chills.

Thats just my own experience and oppinion and I can only speak for myself. :rolleyes:
 
estesbob said:
OK now that we have determined that anyone who holds hands during the Our father is going to hell we need to examine just HOW those who fold their hands should do so. We have two choices(acknowledging, of course, that anyone who stands with their hands at their sides is already damned) do you clasp your hands in a little ball or do reverently fold your hands together with the tips of your fingers pointing to the ceiling?

My personal opinion is that folding them in a little ball is an affront to God and an express ticket to hell(every picture I ever saw of Jesus praying had his hands folded with the fingers pointed skyward). I am very concerned that neither GIRM or the Vatican has addresses this!
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I take it you are a hand holder? If you are beside me at Mass, and I have my hands folded in prayer in front of me, please don’t try to wrestle my hands away. I don’t want to hold your hand, as communal as it may seem to you. No offense, I just don’t like people touching me.
 
paramedicgirl said:
I take it you are a hand holder? If you are beside me at Mass, and I have my hands folded in prayer in front of me, please don’t try to wrestle my hands away. I don’t want to hold your hand, as communal as it may seem to you. No offense, I just don’t like people touching me.
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When the Our father was said at Mass this AM my hands were properly folded with my fingers pointing to heaven(no eternal damnation to me). the only person I hold hands with at the Our father is my wife but then we are genrally holding hands anyway.

At any rate-fess up! do you fold your hands the proper way or do your resort to that Spirit of Vatican II Heresy of holding them a little ball???
 
Saint_Jerome said:
was listening to the Cardinal Arinze podcast, and there was a question regarding community practices, such as this, and he made it clear that there is not a right or wrong. Stand, kneel, hold hands, etc. This is part of the community choice.

I would ask those people who have trouble with holding hands, if mas is a celebration of the church (people) what do you bring to the celebration? Do you sing loudly? Do you shake hands with others during the sign of peace? The resurrection of Christ is the best reason for having a party.

Another point is that we are all part of the holy priesthood. There is nothing off-limits to us, or exclusive to an ordained priest with the exception of the consecration of the hosts. When we attend mass we are all concelebrants and we should not give up too much to those ordained priests.
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I am curious what authority do you think the Pope has in the Church ?
 
estesbob said:
When the Our father was said at Mass this AM my hands were properly folded with my fingers pointing to heaven(no eternal damnation to me). the only person I hold hands with at the Our father is my wife but then we are genrally holding hands anyway.

At any rate-fess up! do you fold your hands the proper way or do your resort to that Spirit of Vatican II Heresy of holding them a little ball???
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So, you are not a hand holder? 😉

OK, OK, you got me. I fold my hands in prayer with palms together - no intertwined fingers - and I point my hands upward toward heaven. I’ve never seen this other method of hands in a little ball. :confused:
 
netmil(name removed by moderator) said:
No need to sneer. Just do what I do, close your eyes and fold your hands.
If someone pokes or prods, nod at them and go back to prayer.

Or listen to MrS and just do a quick nose pick.
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I was just joking, I didn’t sneer, I held out my hand just a little bit where someone could have reached out for it. I glanced at the person on my right,and then went back to prayer. He didn’t reach for my and, but I could tell he was prepared to do so.
 
estesbob said:
(every picture I ever saw of Jesus praying had his hands folded with the fingers pointed skyward).
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Hey! Where did you get those photos?
Do you have a Wayback Machine? Should we call you Sherman?
;);)😉

Seriously though, I have no problem with people holding hands amongst themselves, but don’t think it should become the norm. Especially in every parish.
If I held hands with anyone the way I used to hold my eight-year-old’s hand when she misbehaved, oooooo you wouldn’t want to do it again.
 
netmil(name removed by moderator) said:
Hey! Where did you get those photos?
Do you have a Wayback Machine? Should we call you Sherman?
;);)😉

Seriously though, I have no problem with people holding hands amongst themselves, but don’t think it should become the norm. Especially in every parish.
If I held hands with anyone the way I used to hold my eight-year-old’s hand when she misbehaved, oooooo you wouldn’t want to do it again.
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Its really quite easy:

WRONG:

http://www.svd-ca.com/images/jp1.jpg

RIGHT

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lrs said:
Also, Netmill(name removed by moderator), imagine you all up in arms about holding hands. What is it really taking off of you to physically touch another one of God’s Beloved children in Church.
Can you imagine, we have come to this. Holding, folding, My Goodness!!
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Pretty judgemental there, Sister in Christ.
You know nothing of my backround. Whether a touch of another person reminds me of an abuse of a relative, whether that handhold is crushing to my Rheumetoid Arthritis or that I have a problem with this gesture which I feel is only appropriate for my husband and children.

Now how about answering this…
netmil(name removed by moderator):
When I spoke to the seniors at my past “Catholic Community”, they hated the handholding. Some with arthritic hands or shoulders had to physical pain from the “connection”. It means squat to hold a senior’s hand when they are so often abandoned outside of mass.
What would Jesus do? He would repect the personal space of those lonely people and go spend some time with them at the Senior Community. How many of us hold hands then not give them a thought for the rest of the week.
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And can you imagine saying to the Bishop of St. Louis the same thing you said to me. He gets it, you don’t. It’s really not all about you thinking less of me for not wanting to hold hands, it’s about your loving forgiveness for my discomfort. Not your judgement.

Is holding hands during the Lord’s Prayer allowed or encouraged?
BCL Newsletter, October-November 1989
No. The community’s corporate act of receiving communion is the primary symbol of unity with Christ and the Church. The Sign of Peace immediately preceding the reception of Communion is a liturgical rite that should not be minimized or duplicated in any way. A separate but related issue is the situation of individuals who for personal reasons feel uncomfortable with the practice of holding hands. In this case those individuals feel increasingly excluded from the worshipping community. Sensitivity is needed to include all and draw all to the true symbol of unity.
 
The feet washing comment clinches it-
Jesus washed the Disiciple Feet at Holy Thursday- was this show of humble servitude only meant for the Disciples or for all humankind?? What was the intentions of such an Act?.
I am afraid to even comment further on this. I guess I stand at why is it inappropriate for a Woman to have her feet washed by a Priest.
Perhaps you and I, we are far too distant on our Spirituality to have a meaningful conversation that merits an answer to this.

Lisa
 
estesbob said:
OK now that we have determined that anyone who holds hands during the Our father is going to hell we need to examine just HOW those who fold their hands should do so. We have two choices(acknowledging, of course, that anyone who stands with their hands at their sides is already damned) do you clasp your hands in a little ball or do reverently fold your hands together with the tips of your fingers pointing to the ceiling?

My personal opinion is that folding them in a little ball is an affront to God and an express ticket to hell(every picture I ever saw of Jesus praying had his hands folded with the fingers pointed skyward). I am very concerned that neither GIRM or the Vatican has addresses this!
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What about our eyes, should they be open or closed during prayer, I want to make sure I do it right so I get to Heaven
 
runandsew said:
What about our eyes, should they be open or closed during prayer, I want to make sure I do it right so I get to Heaven
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Thats easy-follow the example of Jesus

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You are, however, allowed to comb your hair.
 
I use to hold hands all the time with parishioners, but in the church I went to the priest asked us not to and not to raise our hands to the heavens either. He said that was reserved for the priest only and it is per Vatican II. He wants us hold our hands in a prayer way by ourselves. He told me that if I didn’t like it to go to the Assembly of God religion. Thank God, my faith is not based on a priest. When I am in his parish, I respect his choice and put prayerful hands, but I have transfered out of that parish and the one I am in now, I hold hands with my husband and daughter.

I don’t know what is approved by the Church and never asked another priest.
 
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