Holding hands durring the Our Father?

[InnocentFortune]

Because it’s corny. I also can’t stand the peace be with you handshake break. I just stand there and don’t make eye contact with anyone. When they stick out their hand and say peace be with you, I don’t even look at them. I sometimes wonder how they take that or whether or not they are offended but I really just don’t feel like explaining myself to strangers during the mass. I found it is best to just awkwardly ignore them for a few seconds. The Agnus Dei is my favorite part of mass now because its like the finish line of giving people the cold shoulder.

 

[japhy]

There is nothing in the liturgy that says we are to hold hands. People made this up as something we should do, even if the person next to you doesn’t want to do this.

The solution, then, is to allow the people who want to hold hands to do so, and not force those who don’t want to hold hands to do so; rather than to forbid holding hands across the board.

 

[Jegudiel]

Because it’s corny.** I also can’t stand the peace be with you handshake break.** I just stand there and don’t make eye contact with anyone. When they stick out their hand and say peace be with you,** I don’t even look at them.** I sometimes wonder how they take that or whether or not they are offended but I really just don’t feel like explaining myself to strangers during the mass. I found it is best to just awkwardly ignore them for a few seconds. The Agnus Dei is my favorite part of mass now because its like the finish line of giving people the cold shoulder.

How terribly sad

 

[japhy]

Truthfully, it takes our focus away from the vertical element of our relationship with the triune God, and distracts, or focuses us improperly on the horizontal element.

I’m not sure that’s the truth. It may be truthful that it takes your focus away from the vertical element, but probably not that it takes our focus away from the vertical element.

The revised missal focuses us back on our personal relationship with God, i.e. “I believe” (rather than “we believe”) in both the penitential act as well as the Nicene creed.

The “I” in the Creed is not necessarily a “personal” matter, where “personal” means “individual”. St. Thomas Aquinas explains that the Creed is in the first person (“I” rather than “we”) because it is the one Church expressing her one faith: one Church speaking as one body “I” in her many members.

 

[japhy]

A woman at Mass on Sunday literally pried my hands apart and placed her hand in mine (I keep them pressed together tightly, under my chin).

I would recommend politely and charitably asking her to not to do so, rather than grrrring about it afterward.

 

[InnocentFortune]

How terribly sad

Yeah I know. I was thinking of making a sign saying something like “No peace be with you handshake please” but I thought it better to just ignore them. Any advice to get people to leave me alone during the mass?

 

[japhy]

I don’t think that people said anything about stopping showing LOVE.

The people in question wish to show their love for one another by holding hands during the Our Father.

It is perfectly licit for two people to be holding hands during, say, the readings, although I would expect that the reason two people would hold hands during the Our Father would be a different one. I have, at times, held my wife’s hand during the Liturgy of the Word, although we do not hold hands during the Our Father.

Suppose your pastor, as instructed by the bishop as instructed by the Pope said, “From now on, the laity will not ‘hold hands’ during the Our Father. You are requested to put your palms together (demonstrates from pulpit). …] From now on for the 2-3 minutes between the start of “Our Father” and the “Lamb of God” we request that you hold your hands as I have shown.”

I would question the wisdom and prudence of such a liturgical instruction (not to hold hands during the Our Father; the other part being merely a “request”). I think such an instruction would never come from the pope.

 

[japhy]

Jesus taught us to pray “Our father…” He did not say “At the appointed time, take your attention away from the sacred moment, then look around for who is closest, then move toward them if they are not close, then take their hands - those on either side of you, stretching out if attendance is sparse, and naturally noticing if those other hands are warm, cold, sweaty or shaking, then pray to your Father and My Father with all of your heart, soul, mind and strength being undistracted”

Jesus did not teach us to pray the “Our Father” during the Mass.

There is a big difference between family members or friends or just random parishioners holding hands during the Our Father without making a commotion about it… and the rigamarole you describe above.

I think it is possible to reach out and hold someone’s hand while praying the Our Father without “tak[ing] your attention away from the ?] sacred moment.” And I highly doubt any of us is praying the Our Father utterly undistracted during Mass, regardless of hands being held or not.

 

[japhy]

The hand holding is not in the liturgy. We shouldn’t add to the liturgy to “make it better”.

Neither the Roman Missal nor the GIRM prescribe how our hands are to be held, during the Our Father or at any part of the Mass (the exception being the Communion Procession, I suppose). Must I have my hands tightly joined under my chin? Must I have them clasped at the bottom of my chest? Must I not under any circumstances hold the hand of another person?

 

[japhy]

As a family we hold hands, but I have never “made” anybody hold my hand. I am recently converted and I had no idea that it was wrong.

As a family, you’re not doing anything wrong.

 

[po18guy]

As a family we hold hands, but I have never “made” anybody hold my hand. I am recently converted and I had no idea that it was wrong.

It isn’t wrong per se. However, it has neither been authorized nor prohibited. Some individual Bishops may have directed against it, but it’s one of those things that slipped into the liturgy in the 60s or 70s. It reflects the laxity with which Vatican II was implemented.

If your parish does it, and if it is not distracting, and if your Bishop and Priest have not spoken against it, it is permitted. It’s just that, for 1970+/- years, it was not a physical part of the liturgy.

 

[japhy]

I also can’t stand the peace be with you handshake break. I just stand there and don’t make eye contact with anyone. When they stick out their hand and say peace be with you, I don’t even look at them. I sometimes wonder how they take that or whether or not they are offended but I really just don’t feel like explaining myself to strangers during the mass. I found it is best to just awkwardly ignore them for a few seconds. The Agnus Dei is my favorite part of mass now because its like the finish line of giving people the cold shoulder.

Troll? Possibly. Either way, I would not recommend emulating this behavior.

 

[po18guy]

Jesus did not teach us to pray the “Our Father” during the Mass.

There is a big difference between family members or friends or just random parishioners holding hands during the Our Father without making a commotion about it… and the rigamarole you describe above.

I think it is possible to reach out and hold someone’s hand while praying the Our Father without “tak[ing] your attention away from the ?] sacred moment.” And I highly doubt any of us is praying the Our Father utterly undistracted during Mass, regardless of hands being held or not.

It’s just too happy-clappy 1970s for me. Although I have never attended a Latin mass, I tend to fall in with them on this issue.

Would it not make more sense to hold hands during the Apostle’s or Nicene creed? That is the expression of our unity.

 

[Maryann_C]

I
The revised missal focuses us back on our personal relationship with God, i.e. “I believe” (rather than “we believe”) in both the penitential act as well as the Nicene creed.

The irony behind that is the fact that Protestants think Catholics don’t have a '“Personal relationship with Jesus” but for me it was the ‘personal relationship with Jesus’ that I read about in the lives of the Saints that convinced me they were true Christians and drew me into the Church and they were all pre- Vatican II ! To me however there has to be a balance because many would criticize the Protestants for being too focused on ‘me and Jesus’ and forgetting to see Jesus in their neighbour!

My understanding on the meaning of the standing posture however is that it shows honour and reverence for God rather than unity. In English polite society a man stands when a a lady enters the room, children used to remain standing behind their desk until the teacher enters and says they may sit. In the US there are some vestiges of this, in court people are told to 'all rise" when the judge comes in and in the military all rise when the commander enters the room, people rise to meet the President etc.

I understand that at one time perhaps it was thought that Catholics were basically ‘fulfilling their Sunday obligation’ and not having anything else to do with their fellow parishioners with whom they are united in Christ. I know this is still the case but I really do think people get way too wrapped around the axel about this subject. When I feel the little squeeze of the hand from someone next to me at the end of the Our Father ,I love it it is a little reminder that we are of the same faith. The beauty of the Catholic Church is that we do use all the senses in our worship.

We must not forget we are one body worshiping together ,we are not , as the protestants are, a bunch of individual ‘me and Jesus’ units…Praise God!

 

[Maryann_C]

Because it’s corny. I also can’t stand the peace be with you handshake break. I just stand there and don’t make eye contact with anyone. When they stick out their hand and say peace be with you, I don’t even look at them. I sometimes wonder how they take that or whether or not they are offended but I really just don’t feel like explaining myself to strangers during the mass. I found it is best to just awkwardly ignore them for a few seconds. The Agnus Dei is my favorite part of mass now because its like the finish line of giving people the cold shoulder.

What a lovely attitude…ignoring people and giving the ‘cold shoulder’ to people as you worship God…hmmm

I hold hands with my family and bow my head as I hold out my other hand close to my body , if someone wants to take it fine, if not no biggy… no commotion…I am deep in prayer…I am with you on the sign of the peace…usually gets people chatting and cooing at babies and fr is already praying again while people are still chit chatting…THAT is what needs to be addressed!

 

[Cathryn]

We don’t do this at my parish. The pastor explained that it is not part of the Mass.

 

[Maryann_C]

I don’t think that people said anything about stopping showing LOVE.

But let’s put it this way. Suppose your pastor, as instructed by the bishop as instructed by the Pope said, “From now on, the laity will not ‘hold hands’ during the Our Father. You are requested to put your palms together (demonstrates from pulpit). After Mass any of you who desire may, outside the church, come forward to shake hands, hold hands, hug or ‘greet with a holy kiss’, but from now on for the 2-3 minutes between the start of “Our Father” and the “Lamb of God” we request that you hold your hands as I have shown.”

What would you do?

Absolutely and with joy.

 

[BettyBoop416]

A woman at Mass on Sunday literally pried my hands apart and placed her hand in mine (I keep them pressed together tightly, under my chin).

I’ll take you at your word, of course, but I have a very hard time imagining such a thing. She must have been a strong, persistent woman who REALLY wanted to hold your hand.



A funny thing happened to me recently. At my parish there are not any aggressive hand-holders that I know of. However, several married couples do hold hands during the Our Father. In fact, I always hold my husband’s hand at that time. My husband and I also exchange a chaste kiss at the sign of peace. Typically, my husband stands at my right during mass. I guess it’s just a habit. Anyway, we recently attended a funeral mass and were sitting in a pew with some family members of the deceased on the opposite side of the church from where we usually sit. Somehow, I ended up with my husband on my left, and a man I didn’t know on my right. As the Our Father started, I almost grabbed the hand of the man to my right, but I caught myself just in time. However, when it came time to share the sign of peace, I was still kind of rattled about the fact that I almost grabbed the wrong hand and…you guessed it, I kissed the guy on my right. Talk about being embarrassed.

I bet he thinks ours is a VERY friendly parish.

 

[InnocentFortune]

What a lovely attitude…ignoring people and giving the ‘cold shoulder’ to people as you worship God…hmmm

Yeah but I don’t know what else to do. I just had enough of it. I wasn’t gonna be a phony by pretending that it didn’t bother me. I am hoping that people start to get the hint and just don’t say anything to me or my family (they hate the peace be with as well). Maybe it’ll start a movement in the church whereby catholic just refuse to do it anymore. One can hope right? I’ll blaze this trail for the good of the church:thumbsup:

 

[CMatt25]

Because it’s corny. I also can’t stand the peace be with you handshake break. I just stand there and don’t make eye contact with anyone. When they stick out their hand and say peace be with you, I don’t even look at them. I sometimes wonder how they take that or whether or not they are offended but I really just don’t feel like explaining myself to strangers during the mass. I found it is best to just awkwardly ignore them for a few seconds. The Agnus Dei is my favorite part of mass now because its like the finish line of giving people the cold shoulder.

So you don’t wonder any longer yes I’ve been offended many times in a Catholic Church by this. Or when people in front of me don’t turn around. That gets to me. What? I’m not worthy of their expression of peace? I have more recently attended a church where at my first visit someone actually got out of his seat and approached me with a handshake during the sign of peace. That meant so much to me. It made me feel so good and welcomed. Yesterday I attended the same parish for a Mass and someone else got up and approached me. I was in the back row and the person beside of me offered me the sign of peace. People in front of me turned around to do so. There was a bit of space between the seats and I got up to approach them.

Of course I also noticed a lot of people raised their palms up during the Lord’s Prayer. I don’t know if that’s frowned upon too like holding hands is or not.

But in any case peace be with you.