Holding Hands

[Brian_C]

I just wanted to point out that the hand-holding seems to be pure, across the board charismatic-type stuff, protestant or Catholic. In my quite reserved baptist church that I grew up in before converting, if you had reached out your hand in an attempt to hold hands with your neighbor, you might not get it back.

 

[Doxiemom]

This is my first post here and i am just your ordinary Catholic who is trying to stay catholic

One Sunday at Mass I felt moved by the holy Spirit to hold my husband’s hand when we began the Lord’s Prayer. He squeesed my hand and I have never ever felt so close to the Father before. It is personal, it is beautiful, and we will continue to do this. Calling this sin is mind-boggling.

Group holding of hands should be an agreed upon action for a specific intent (such as praying for a beloved sick family member) done outside Mass. The power of prayer is awesome.

Doxiemom
God giggled when He made dachshunds especially the little bitty long hair ones who trip on their hair doing the high jumps

 

[cjaubert]

Doximom, a few thoughts. First, contrats on your first post - may God give you thousands more!

Second, who called holding hands a sin? I certainly did not.

Third, I think, with respect, that you miss the point of the Our Father. It is a prayer directly to God. If it is so personal and beautiful to hold hands, and I presume you would include unifying as a descriptive term, why not do it throughout the Mass? (This is a serious question.)

Again, with respect, the mass is designed to be vertical - us to God, not horizontal, us to each other.

I guess my point, really, is, do you have any reason to want to hold hands OTHER THAN that it makes you feel good?

God bless…

 

[prv]

This is my first post here and i am just your ordinary Catholic who is trying to stay catholic

One Sunday at Mass I felt moved by the holy Spirit to hold my husband’s hand when we began the Lord’s Prayer. He squeesed my hand and I have never ever felt so close to the Father before. It is personal, it is beautiful, and we will continue to do this. Calling this sin is mind-boggling.

Group holding of hands should be an agreed upon action for a specific intent (such as praying for a beloved sick family member) done outside Mass. The power of prayer is awesome.

Doxiemom
God giggled when He made dachshunds especially the little bitty long hair ones who trip on their hair doing the high jumps

I am not sure that anybody here has called it a “sin.” Furthermore, the problem I have is when it is coerced upon people, namely by strangers, not your family. Especially since it is not called for in the GIRM, as noted above.

 

[MariaG]

This is my first post here and i am just your ordinary Catholic who is trying to stay catholic

One Sunday at Mass I felt moved by the holy Spirit to hold my husband’s hand when we began the Lord’s Prayer. He squeesed my hand and I have never ever felt so close to the Father before. It is personal, it is beautiful, and we will continue to do this. Calling this sin is mind-boggling.

Group holding of hands should be an agreed upon action for a specific intent (such as praying for a beloved sick family member) done outside Mass. The power of prayer is awesome.

Doxiemom
God giggled when He made dachshunds especially the little bitty long hair ones who trip on their hair doing the high jumps

Hi,

Welcome to the forums

Not a sin, especially since it tells us in the GIRM that the holding of hands by family and close friends is allowed. A fact that I am now aware of thanks to our awesome warrior for God and Church, Church Militant:tiphat:

orginally posted by Church Militant

BTW, the GIRM does say that close friends and family may hold hands like that. Truth is…I’m more concerned with what is happening up on that altar…you know…“full, active, conscious, (and joyful), participation.” That’s what my sig line is all about… in Latin no less. http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/misc/signholder.gif

God Bless,
Maria

 

[Doxiemom]

It was from Jimfinch’s post. Holding hands seems to be a veniel sin as far as I can tell.

Doxiemom

 

[estesbob]

I prefer to Fold my Hands the old fashioned way during the Our Father. However if my wife is with me we hold hands. Works for us.

 

[estesbob]

It was from Jimfinch’s post. Holding hands seems to be a veniel sin as far as I can tell.

Doxiemom

It is no sin at all-not in any way shape or form.

On my top 10 list of things the Church needs to adress holding hands at The Our Father comes in at around 1,000

 

[wjp984]

I don’t like the idea of holding hands especially if it is with people you don’t know.

 

[Fidelis]

I prefer to Fold my Hands the old fashioned way during the Our Father.

Isn’t that technically holding hands with yourself? Let’s not go there.

However if my wife is with me we hold hands. Works for us.

That’s better!

 

[estesbob]

Isn’t that technically holding hands with yourself? Let’s not go there. That’s better!

I will hold hands with family beucase they like to. i dont , however, like to hold hands with just whomever ends up sitting next to me.

I guess that wold me agnostic as far as hand holding at the Our father goes!

 

[cjaubert]

Hi,

Welcome to the forums

Not a sin, especially since it tells us in the GIRM that the holding of hands by family and close friends is allowed. A fact that I am now aware of thanks to our awesome warrior for God and Church, Church Militant:tiphat:

God Bless,
Maria

Where, PRECISELY, does the GIRM say that holding hands by ANYONE during the Our Father is allowed?

 

[MariaG]

Where, PRECISELY, does the GIRM say that holding hands by ANYONE during the Our Father is allowed?

I simply bow my head and close my eyes and either fold my hands in front of myself or just keep them on the pew in front of me. I don’t worry too much about what others around me do or think.

BTW, the GIRM does say that close friends and family may hold hands like that. Truth is…I’m more concerned with what is happening up on that altar…you know…“full, active, conscious, (and joyful), participation.” That’s what my sig line is all about… in Latin no less. [sign] [/sign]
Pax tecum,

You would have to ask CM. As I had said earlier, I was not aware that the GIRM said this, but this is what CM posted.

Unless it was a typo by him and he meant to say does not I have always felt confident talking the word of Church militant and did so in this case.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[cjaubert]

There is NO WAY the GIRM says that holding hands during the Our Father with ANYONE is acceptable.

You see, that is the problem with topics like this, people say things, they get perpetuated, and, the next thing you know, someone else takes it as Gospel. I am a skeptic at heart and when I hear things that I am interested in, I generally check it out, just to be sure.

Trust me, if you read the two LONG posts I made a few days ago, if the GIRM said this, I would have to be either stupid or blind to miss it. While I may indeed be stupid, I don’t think I missed this. Church Militant, can you provide support for your statement?

Thanks, and God bless.

 

[ncjohn]

Unless the GIRM has been changed in the last couple weeks, it definitely does not say that it’s ok. Nor does it say that it’s not ok. Nor does it say that anything else is or isn’t ok. The GIRM does not address the position of the hands of the faithful at all, only the instruction to stand, sit, kneel, bow, etc.

Per the USCCB, “there is no prescribed position for the hands during the Our Father”. The one caveat in it all though is that whatever position is taken should be at the individual’s initiative as nobody–including the priest or the Liturgical Director–is allowed to prescribe it or forbid it, though some bishops do encourage or discourage it.

There are lots of good arguments made for its use. There are a lot of good arguments made by those who think it doesn’t belong. But when it’s all said and done, the Bishops say there is no prescribed position, and as much as people would like to think that the Vatican has spoken, the only statement anyone has been able to produce that I’ve seen is 11 Noticiae 1975, which states that holding hands cannot be substituted for the sign of peace, but specifically does NOT say that there is anything wrong with holding hands oor recommend any other specific position.

As such, it becomes a matter of personal preference, and neither preference should be a cause for anyone to be getting judgmental, nor should either “side” be trying to force their preference on the other.

Peace,

 

[paramedicgirl]

In the book, Mass Confusion by James Akin, on page 161 he states,

“One of the most commonly asked questions concerns the holding of hands during the Our Father. The Holy See has not ruled directly on this issue. In response to a query, however, the Holy See stated that holding hands ‘is a liturgical gesture introduced spontaneously, but on personal initiative; it is not in the rubrics.’ For this reason, no one can be required to hold hands during the Our Father.”

 

[marshal999]

This was a big concern to me. I never liked this practice of holding hands. It is not a requirement.

This is one of the reasons I changed parishes! My previous parish stated the hand holding and I never liked it. In fact sometimes I would stand at the back of the church through mass specificly to avoid this practice! But then one day I needed to attend a mass on Sunday evening and I discovered that they didn’t do that at that church.

There were a few other factors that influenced me to switch to this church. And the non hand holding policy was one of the main ones and I have never felt bad about my decision!

 

[paramedicgirl]

And in one of my favourite e-letters of Karl Keating’s, he has this to say about hand holding:

ORIGINS OF HAND-HOLDING

The current issue of the “Adoremus Bulletin” says this in response to a query from a priest in the Bronx:

“No gesture for the people during the Lord’s Prayer is mentioned in the official documents. The late liturgist Fr. Robert Hovda promoted holding hands during this prayer, a practice he said originated in Alcoholics Anonymous. Some ‘charismatic’ groups took up the practice.”

My long-time sense had been that hand-holding at the Our Father was an intrusion from charismaticism, but I had not been aware of the possible connection with AA. If this is the real origin of the practice, it makes it doubly odd: first, because hand-holding intrudes a false air of chumminess into the Mass (and undercuts the immediately-following sign of peace), and second, because modifications to liturgical rites ought to arise organically and not be borrowed from secular self-help groups.

Periodically, on “Catholic Answers Live” I am asked about hand-holding during Mass and explain that it is contrary to the rubrics. Usually I get follow-up e-mails from people who say, “But it’s my favorite part of the Mass” or “We hold hands as a family, and it makes us feel closer.”

About the latter I think, “It’s good to feel close as a family, but you can hold hands at home or at the mall. The Mass has a formal structure that should be respected. That means you forgo certain things that you might do on the outside.”

About the former comment I think, “If this is the high point of the Mass for you, you need to take Remedial Mass 101. The Mass is not a social event. It is the re-presentation of the sacrifice of Calvary, and it is the loftiest form of prayer. It should be attended with appropriate solemnity.”

 

[Greg_Gravlee]

Lots of great comments, but I’m curious–if there is division in the flock, why do the shepherds not rule on the matter? Surely, they are aware of the division.

 

[cjaubert]

Unless the GIRM has been changed in the last couple weeks, it definitely does not say that it’s ok. Nor does it say that it’s not ok. Nor does it say that anything else is or isn’t ok. The GIRM does not address the position of the hands of the faithful at all, only the instruction to stand, sit, kneel, bow, etc.

John, you are correct in your recitation of the GIRM, but your argument from silence is illogical and weak.

If I wanted to wave my hands wildly in the air during the Our Father, would that be okay? Or, if wanted to clap my hands together, would that be okay? Similarly, would it be okay for the priest to say the homily standing on his head? Under your logic, this would all be okay, since the GIRM does not prescribe what I should or should not do with my hands, or that the priest should not stand on his head, so, therefore, everything goes.

Also, my missalette (I probably did not spell this right!) says to “stand” during the Lord’s Prayer, not “stand and hold hands.” Is there, or is there not, a difference between “standing” and “standing and holding hands”?

Finally, the 11 Noticiae 1975 also says “The prolonged holding of hands . . . is a liturgical gesture introduced spontaneously but on personal initiative; it is not in the rubrics.” This is indeed in response to the question asked, but the point, as written, is rather obviously broader in nature. Is it your position that the USCCB ENCOURAGES people to introduce new stuff into the Mass on personal initiative? It would be my guess that they DISCOURAGE additions to the Mass on personal initiative.

John, email is one dimensional, so I hope you accept that I do not say these things to be snide or rude; rather, I am just trying to see if your logic is consistent.

God bless…