Holocaust...con't

[triumphguy]

There is NO ARGUMENT about whether Xyclon B was used.

jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/auschwitz_faq_06.html

Two German firms, Tesch/Stabenow and Degesch, produced Cyclone B gas after they acquired the patent from Farben. Tesch supplied two tons a month, and Degesch three quarters of a ton. The firms that produced the gas already had extensive experience in fumigation.

“In short, this industry used very powerful gases to exterminate rodents and insects in enclosed spaces; that it should now have become involved in an operation to kill off Jews by the hundreds of thousands is not mere accident.” (Hilberg, Commandant, 567)

After the war the directors of the firms insisted that they had sold their products for fumigation purposes and did not know they were being used on humans. But the prosecutors found letters from Tesch not only offering to supply the gas crystals but also advising how to use the ventilating and heating equipment. Hoess testified that the Tesch directors could not help but know of the use for their product because they sold him enough to annihilate two million people. Two Tesch partners were sentenced to death in 1946 and hanged. The director of Degesch recieved five years in prison." (Feig, Konnilyn. Hitler’s Death Camps : The Sanity of Madness. NY: Holmes & Meier, Publishers, 1981.) (See also Breitman, Richard. The Architect of Genocide : Himmler and the Final Solution. MA: Brandeis University Press, 1992, pp. 203-204, for a discussion of the early involvement of Heerdt-Lingler)

From the statement of Hans Stark, registrar of new arrivals, Auschwitz (Klee, Ernst, Willi. Dressen, Volker Riess. The Good Old Days: The Holocaust As Seen by Its Perpetrators and Bystanders. NY: The Free Press, 1992, p. 255):

"At another, later gassing – also in autumn 1941 – Grabner* ordered me to pour Zyklon B into the opening because only one medical orderly had shown up. During a gassing Zyklon B had to be poured through both openings of the gas-chamber room at the same time. This gassing was also a transport of 200-250 Jews, once again men, women and children. As the Zyklon B – as already mentioned – was in granular form, it trickled down over the people as it was being poured in.

They then started to cry out terribly for they now knew what was happening to them. I did not look through the opening because it had to be closed as soon as the Zyklon B had been poured in. After a few minutes there was silence. After some time had passed, it may have been ten to fifteen minutes, the gas chamber was opened. The dead lay higgledy-piggedly all over the place. It was a dreadful sight."

*Maximillian Grabner, Head of Political Department, Auschwitz

Excerpts from guards at concentration camps, with sources:

shamash.org/holocaust/denial/testimony.txt

 

[Forkfoot]

Moron.

Why hasn’t this thread been deleted and its starter banned yet? Almost all of his posts are in this one single hate thread. Wake up, mods.

 

[agnes_therese]

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Can you elaborate, I asked the question to get opinions and feedback, not an empty school of thought

Apparently anyone who has researched the history and doesn’t believe those crack-pot conspiracy theories is, according to you, only giving “an empty school of thought.”

I have known survivors. Your accusation that they all lied is vile.

 

[triumphguy]

Moron.

Why hasn’t this thread been deleted and its starter banned yet? Almost all of his posts are in this one single hate thread. Wake up, mods.

I have reported it already. It’s atrocious.

 

[triumphguy]

More on Zyclon B and the false claims of holocaust deniers:

nizkor.org/faqs/auschwitz/auschwitz-faq-06.html

Zyklon-B is a powerful insecticide which serves as a carrier for the gas Hydrocyanic acid, or HCN. It usually comes in the shape of small pellets or disks. (See Breitman, 203, for more detail about the early use of the gas at Auschwitz) HCN is the cause of death following the application of Zyklon-B. While interacting with iron and concrete, it creates Hydrocyanic compounds, which Leuchter admitted were found in the ruins of the gas chamber in Krematoria II. His finding was confirmed by findings of the Polish government.

HCN is extremely poisonous to humans. It is used in execution gas chambers in the US; the first was built in Arizona in 1920.

Holocaust denial often includes the claim that Germany in the 1940’s could not handle the “technical difficulties” inherent in using HCN for execution.
As noted above, these “difficulties” were easily solved in 1920. Moreover, the Germans had a lot of experience with HCN, as it was extensively used for delousing.
There were two types of gas chambers in Auschwitz: those used for delousing clothes (“delousing gas chambers”) and those used for killing people on a massive scale (“extermination gas chambers”). The delousing gas chambers were a standard feature, and were left intact by the SS (the extermination gas chambers were dynamited in an effort to conceal criminal traces).

Holocaust denial asserts that because more Hydrocyanic compounds were found in the delousing chambers in Auschwitz than in the ruins of the extermination gas chambers, mass murder using the gas could not have taken took place within, because the reverse would be true.
HCN is much more effective on warm-blooded animals, including humans, than it is on insects. The exposure period (to HCN) is much greater in delousing operations than in homicidal gassings. This means that a much lower concentration is necessary to kill people than to get rid of lice, etc. In delousing, concentrations of up to 16,000 ppm (parts per million) are sometimes used, and exposure time can be up to 72 hours; while 300 ppm will kill people in fifteen minutes or so.
Therefore, the HCN in the extermination chambers hardly had time to form compounds on the walls. While some claim that the gas would need a lot of time to kill, because it would have to spread all over the chamber, it simply is not true; the gas chambers were not that large (those in Krematoria II and III were about 210 square meters), and the Zyklon-B was dropped from four openings (still visible in the ruins of the gas chambers). Since the concentration used was higher than the lethal one, death was very swift.

Furthermore, the delousing chambers are intact while the extermination chambers were blown up (a .GIF picture of the one of Krema II is available). Therefore, their walls have been exposed to the elements for the last 50 years. The ruins of the gas chamber of Krema II are covered with about 3 feet of water during certain periods of the year; HCN compounds easily dissolve in these surroundings. Nonetheless, so much gassing took place that some of the compound remained.

Summarizing, the walls of the extermination gas chambers were in contact with HCN for a much shorter time then those of the delousing chambers, and for the last 45 years were exposed to surroundings which dissolve the compounds, while the delousing rooms were not. Therefore it is obvious that less traces of compounds would remain in them.

This fact - that all, or most, of the compounds would vanish during 45 years of exposure - is clearly stated in the report written by the experts of the Cracow Institute of Forensic Research. (Also see The Leuchter FAQ)

Holocaust deniers once claimed that the gas chamber in Krema I was left intact, and therefore its walls were not exposed to the elements.
But - as they admit themselves - the gas chamber of Krema I was used only for a short time, and than it was changed to an air-raid shelter. After the liberation of the camp, it was reconstructed to its original shape. This, and the fact that “only” about 10,000 people were murdered inside it (compared to 350,000 and 400,000 in Kremas II and III) explain why relatively small amounts of cyanide compounds remain. As for Kremas IV and V, they were completely destroyed by the SS before the Soviets liberated the camp.
Finally, cyanide compounds were found on the ventilation grills of the extermination chambers, proving beyond doubt that gassing did take place inside them.

The claim that it would have been impossible to use the gas chambers for killing, because they were too close to the furnaces, and the gas would explode, is often found in Holocaust denial literature, and is one of the assertions of the Leuchter report…
The concentration of HCN necessary to cause death is nearly 200 times lower than that which causes explosion. Although the SS used a concentration higher than the lethal one, it was far below that causing explosion.

 

[Daizies]

Easy I’m not trying to pick a fight with anyone, just stating what I found interesting. I’ll read your stuff when I have a chance as you should watch mine. But isn’t this just the point I’m making, there are so many sources out there how do you know who is right and wrong. I’m aware that the Holocaust is so entrenched into everyone since it was taught in school and there are so many books on the shelf about it, and movies of course, that anyone who steps outside popular belief is run over, like when people who believed the earth was round not flat. All I’m saying is the topic is interesting and gets you thinking and searching for truth.

This is what we get when people get their “history” from youtube and wikipedia.

Just because you find it on the internet doesn’t make it true.

You want to research? Do real research. In actual books - you know, those things made of paper?
Read research papers, read academic papers, read thesis from historians. Learn German, read the documents in their original languages.

I encourage you to do REAL research, not rely on youtube.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

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If they are so good at documenting then how come it was believed 4 million Jews died in Auschwitz alone, later that number was revised down to half, and later again revised to under a million. And this is from the Holocaust museum. And there are many more beliefs that later became untrue - like there were gas chambers in Dakeau (or however you spell it) only to be later rebuttal-ed as there were never any there at all.

Because they first went by witness accounts, which were often flawed.

However, in the end the documentation was finally put together and the numbers are real.

The thing is, many non-Jews died in the concentration camps, and many died because they tried to save Jews.

St Maximilian Kolbe died saving a Jewish man.

Jim

 

[Dee_S]

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One day I would love to see it. However lets not forget the argument is about whether there were chambers using zyclon b to mass murder Jews and others. I’ve seen the gripping images of skeleton like people who were obviously starved, but this does not prove gas chambers.

It’s a pity that you are being so brash and offensive in your quest for knowledge.
(Edited) I suggest we continue the discussion to refute holocaust deniers (ignoring this poster until the apology is forthcoming) - as there is a need for information/help, especially for the younger generation. Any ideas?

 

[Daizies]

(Edited) I suggest we continue the discussion to refute holocaust deniers (ignoring this poster until the apology is forthcoming) - as there is a need for information/help, especially for the younger generation. Any ideas?

A book I read as a teenager was The Hiding Place by Corrie Ten Boom. For those of you who are not familiar with her story, her and her family were Christians who lived in Holland under Nazi rule. They hid Jews in a secret compartment in their home, and helped to have them smuggled out of the country. They were arrested, and several family members died in the concentration camps, and she herself only survived because of a “clerical error.”
Reading this book is what started my interest in history, and in particular WWII. But more than that, it drew me to God, and how He can help us through the most difficult times.

 

[pnewton]

I always question why one goes to such great extremes to believe something so contrary to documented evidence.

 

[Luminous7]

Moron.

Why hasn’t this thread been deleted and its starter banned yet? Almost all of his posts are in this one single hate thread. Wake up, mods.

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Resorting to name calling, always shows maturity. I’ve been on and off this forum for 3 years, and assure you I know my Catholic faith which I’ve been devoted to my whole life better than you do.
Too add I’m Polish and born only a hour away from Auschwitz, maybe that’s why the topic interests me.
And maybe the mods don’t see the “hate thread” you speak of, which again says something about you.

 

[Luminous7]

More on Zyclon B and the false claims of holocaust deniers:

nizkor.org/faqs/auschwitz/auschwitz-faq-06.html

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Thank you also interesting facts. But I never said I was a holocaust denier.

 

[Luminous7]

This is what we get when people get their “history” from youtube and wikipedia.

Just because you find it on the internet doesn’t make it true.

You want to research? Do real research. In actual books - you know, those things made of paper?
Read research papers, read academic papers, read thesis from historians. Learn German, read the documents in their original languages.

I encourage you to do REAL research, not rely on youtube.

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(Edited) History books always show inconsistencies and revisions. So many books on WWII out there with so many details on who did this and that, gotta make you wonder.
As for youtube, duh I’m fully aware you can’t believe everything, but I assure you there is lots of quality stuff out there too.

 

[Luminous7]

It’s a pity that you are being so brash and offensive in your quest for knowledge.

It’s time (overdue) to apologize or go away. There are only two choices for you…pick one!

If the Moderator does not close this thread, then I suggest we continue the discussion to refute holocaust deniers (ignoring this poster until the apology is forthcoming) - as there is a need for information/help, especially for the younger generation. Any ideas?

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Excuse me what am I suppose apologize for??? I didn’t say I was a Holocaust denier, I simply posted interesting things I came across and hoped to have a discussion over.

 

[Luminous7]

A book I read as a teenager was The Hiding Place by Corrie Ten Boom. For those of you who are not familiar with her story, her and her family were Christians who lived in Holland under Nazi rule. They hid Jews in a secret compartment in their home, and helped to have them smuggled out of the country. They were arrested, and several family members died in the concentration camps, and she herself only survived because of a “clerical error.”
Reading this book is what started my interest in history, and in particular WWII. But more than that, it drew me to God, and how He can help us through the most difficult times.

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Thanks for sharing, this is the type of anecdotal discussion I was hoping for. So did she say they were put to death in the gas chamber and personally saw it?

 

[Forkfoot]

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Resorting to name calling, always shows maturity. I’ve been on and off this forum for 3 years, and assure you I know my Catholic faith which I’ve been devoted to my whole life better than you do.
Too add I’m Polish and born only a hour away from Auschwitz, maybe that’s why the topic interests me.
And maybe the mods don’t see the “hate thread” you speak of, which again says something about you.

Gah, shut up. How do you live like this, man?

 

[Luminous7]

Gah, shut up. How do you live like this, man?

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You’re not even worth talking to, they should remove you from the forum

 

[Forkfoot]

This thread’s been around more than a day and I know at least two people have reported it including myself. If this garbage is considered acceptable by the folks who run this forum I’m leaving.

 

[Luminous7]

This thread’s been around more than a day and I know at least two people have reported it including myself. If this garbage is considered acceptable by the folks who run this forum I’m leaving.

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What part specifically is not acceptable?

 

[Forkfoot]

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What part specifically is not acceptable?

Imbecile.