Holocaust-surviving Jews Thank Pope

[Sepharad]

I would like to recommend a wonderful film, made in 1978, entitled, THE ASSISI UNDERGROUND.

This film, based on a true story, details the activities of Padre Ruffino, the Poor Clares, the Monsignor of Assisi, and (ta-da!) TDF cyclist Gino Bartali, who all worked together to save the Jews of Italy.

Ignatius Press used to sell it; I doubt its on DVD though it may be (I bought it years ago from Ignatius, on VHS).

An interesting trivia bit about the film: one of the nuns is played by Allesandra Mussolini, granddaughter of Benito Mussolini, the former Italian dictator (the younger Mussolini is not antisemitic, even though she has been active in far right politics in Italy.) She is actually very pro-Jewish!

 

[wisdomseeker]

I think they acted individually, perhaps even out of some guilt over the lack of direction from the Church. This is not to say that they did not act in accordance with their faith. I believe they did.

really!
do you also think that there is a possibility maybe a possibility that our papa could really be one behind of all these acts of kindness?

 

[Kaninchen]

An interesting trivia bit about the film: one of the nuns is played by Allesandra Mussolini, granddaughter of Benito Mussolini, the former Italian dictator (the younger Mussolini is not antisemitic, even though she has been active in far right politics in Italy.) She is actually very pro-Jewish!

Unlike all the Forza Nuova graffiti.

 

[dolphinlove]

Here is the story of a wonderful saint, Max Kolbe.
He is truly an insperation.
here

 

[Valke2]

really!
do you also think that there is a possibility maybe a possibility that our papa could really be one behind of all these acts of kindness?

I think it unlikely that such action would remain hidden all these years.

 

[wisdomseeker]

I think it unlikely that such action would remain hidden all these years.

i know it is difficult for you to understand it.
the documents are all there.
besides what do you want to happen? the pope to come out and say look what i did? no that is not how the Church present herself. the Church is the body of Christ. Christ rule over this Church. it is what it is. we cannot change that.

**“Lord, to whom shall we go? you have the words of eternal life.” **

 

[Valke2]

i know it is difficult for you to understand it.
the documents are all there.
besides what do you want to happen? the pope to come out and say look what i did? no that is not how the Church present herself. the Church is the body of Christ. Christ rule over this Church. it is what it is. we cannot change that.

The documents are of course, not all there. There is nothing, for example, evidencing that Max Kolbe acted on orders of the Church, or that the nuns and priests who hid Jews acted on orders of the Church. These were individual acts of kindness.

 

[dolphinlove]

The documents are of course, not all there. There is nothing, for example, evidencing that Max Kolbe acted on orders of the Church, or that the nuns and priests who hid Jews acted on orders of the Church. These were individual acts of kindness.

They got their teachings from the church however. Like Max Kolbe for example, he still prayed the rosary pretty much until his last dying breath, it kept all the other prisoners spirits up. But in saying that, they were not under orders from the church, but if the church did give orders, im sure it would be exactly the same as the course of action they took.

 

[Eden]

I think they acted individually, perhaps even out of some guilt over the lack of direction from the Church. This is not to say that they did not act in accordance with their faith. I believe they did.

Lack of direction?

New York Times on December 25th, 1941: “The voice of Pius XII is a lonely voice in the silence and darkness enveloping Europe this Christmas. … He is about the only ruler left on the continent of Europe who dares to raise his voice at all.”

buchanan.org/pa-98-0401.html

 

[po18guy]

In the book "A Vatican LIfeline 44’ by William Simpson,it is all there. I knew Major Simpson…he was a tank commander from Scotland who was captured in North Africa by Rommells forces,shipped to Itlay for incarceration ,escaped ,made his way to Rome and worked in the underground with Monsg.Hugh OFlaherty…portrayed in a movie by Gregory Peck in 1968.

The movie is titled The Scarlet and the Black and was filmed in 1983. It is considered one of the top ten Catholic films by Catholic reviewers. It starred Gregory Peck as the Monsignor, Sir John Gielgud as Pius XII, and Christopher Plummer as the nazi Colonel who tried to assassinate the Monsignor. A surprise twist ending, as well. It is a great film.

I highly recommend it, and it can be purchased at Catholic bookstores, Amazon and eBay for a nominal fee. The shame of it all is that my Adventist Chaplain at work was how I found out about the film!

Christ’s peace be with all.

 

[Sepharad]

The documents are of course, not all there. There is nothing, for example, evidencing that Max Kolbe acted on orders of the Church, or that the nuns and priests who hid Jews acted on orders of the Church. These were individual acts of kindness.

That is what most Holocaust scholars also have maintained, from what I’ve read. This does not mean the Pope did not care, or was a bad person, anything like that. But it does seem that many of the rescue efforts engaged in by both Catholics and Protestants were done without encouragement of the leaders of established religions, although many of the individuals were in fact motivated by their religious faith (Corrie ten Boom, the Protestant community of Le Chambon in France, the Poor Clares and Franciscans in Assisi, etc)

 

[wisdomseeker]

i know it is difficult for you to understand it.
the documents are all there.
besides what do you want to happen? the pope to come out and say look what i did? no that is not how the Church present herself. the Church is the body of Christ. Christ rule over this Church. it is what it is. we cannot change that.

**“Lord, to whom shall we go? you have the words of eternal life.” **

 

[wisdomseeker]

The documents are of course, not all there. There is nothing, for example, evidencing that Max Kolbe acted on orders of the Church, or that the nuns and priests who hid Jews acted on orders of the Church. These were individual acts of kindness.

is it not evidence of actions better than any writing? the pope gave advice to all catholics to do everything they could to help the jews. remember this, everything had to be done in silence otherwise the lives of the jews would be in worse danger and also the lives of those who helped them.

**“Lord, to whom shall we go? you have the words of eternal life.” **

 

[Valke2]

They got their teachings from the church however. Like Max Kolbe for example, he still prayed the rosary pretty much until his last dying breath, it kept all the other prisoners spirits up. But in saying that, they were not under orders from the church, but if the church did give orders, im sure it would be exactly the same as the course of action they took.

I don’t doubt that their faith and the teachings of the church played a large part in their actions.

 

[Sepharad]

I don’t doubt that their faith and the teachings of the church played a large part in their actions.

I am sure in the case of Gino Bartali, that his deeply held (since childhood) Catholic faith played a major role in his rescue work of the Jews of Italy.

 

[PaulDupre]

I think it’s insulting for anyone to think that a Catholic can’t courageously live out the ideals of our faith without orders from the pope.

Paul

 

[Eden]

The documents are of course, not all there. There is nothing, for example, evidencing that Max Kolbe acted on orders of the Church, or that the nuns and priests who hid Jews acted on orders of the Church. These were individual acts of kindness.

Well, he was certainly acting on the example of Jesus Christ, who gave his life to save others. It was Kolbe’s faith that led him and, more specifically, the example of Christ himself. That’s really the most important point in understanding the heroic acts of Catholics during the war.

 

[Petergee]

Rather depends on who actually trying to make sense of the history of Europe during the period, I expect.

Fine, we’ll just accept your assertion, that the Church declined in Europe in the late 20th century because it failed to live up to its ideals in the first half of the 20th century, at face value as the unfounded maverick assertion that it is. You may be able to make sense of it but it’s hard to see how any fair-minded person could.

As I said, Benedict XV and the Catholic Church were virtually alone in Europe in trying to prevent and then stop the senseless slaughter of WW1. WW2 was created and sustained by militantly anti-Catholic atheists. By the end of it, nearly all non-Catholics even a non-religious Jewish genius like Einstein, had come to have tremendous admiration for the Church, and it boomed after the war with many conversions. It wasn’t until Europe itself began to decline in the late 1960s that the Church in Europe began to decline.
The crazy idea, that the Church or any significant number of practising Catholics supported the Nazis, would have been ridiculed by anyone who lived at that time. It wasn’t until the 1960s that a Communist agent first hinted at this idea, now unthinkingly swallowed as fact by many with an anti-Catholic agenda.

 

[Petergee]

The vast majority of the Catholics who were killed were killed for being Polish, not for being Catholic. Certainly it was clear that the Slavs were next on the list for extermination - those who were not being kept alive for slave labor in the vastly extended Reich - but that’s because they were Slavs not because they were Catholic or Orthodox.

Many Catholics were killed simply and directly because they were practising Catholics (and by no means all of these were Poles or Slavs); many for hiding and helping Jews; and many for other reasons. Regardless, their Catholicism did nothing to save them from the Nazis, on the contrary it was at the very least one motivation for their murders. Giving the lie to the utterly ludicrous assertion that there was some sort of pact of non-opposition between Nazis and the Church.

 

[Kaninchen]

Many Catholics were killed simply and directly because they were practising Catholics (and by no means all of these were Poles or Slavs); many for hiding and helping Jews; and many for other reasons. Regardless, their Catholicism did nothing to save them from the Nazis, on the contrary it was at the very least one motivation for their murders. Giving the lie to the utterly ludicrous assertion that there was some sort of pact of non-opposition between Nazis and the Church.

Well, you’ve got some explaining to do about Slovakia and Croatia but the post you’re referring to was a response to your assertion that:

And the Nazis made very clear that after the Jews the next in line for extermination were Catholics.

For which you’ve not the slightest evidence.