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unafraid
Guest
Pope Benedict must remain firm against what has become an orchestrated slander against Pope Pius XII. Where was this outrage in the subsequent years after the war? There is a strong animus against the Roman Catholic Church within modern Jewry, especially the media elites who have been actively, and contemporaneously, propogating slanders and lies regarding all things Catholic. We must sit by and absorb the blows because we haven’t the power to force them to cease and desist. But they have no authority regarding what is done within our religion. The Pope must not yield to this pressure. Pope Pius XII is more than worthy to be considered for veneration. A slanderous, obscure play which distorted history is now being used as the basis to corrupt the memory of a truly great pontif. It is a scandal.
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reggieM
Guest
They should appeal for his canonization.
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James924
Guest
Article on Pope Pius XXII’s protection of the jews:
catholic.com/library/HOW_Pius_XII_PROTECTED_JEWS.asp
catholic.com/library/HOW_Pius_XII_PROTECTED_JEWS.asp
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Tsuwano
Guest
I disagree that there is a “strong animus against the Roman Catholic Church within modern Jewry” just as I would disagree that there is a strong animus against the Jewish faith within modern Roman Catholicism, even though posts such as the one above tend to contradict my view. I agree that there are many worthy reasons for considering the canonization of Pope Pius XII, but I also think that critics, who are not only of the Jewish faith, have a point when they ask that the Vatican Archives on the papacy of Pius XII be opened to historians and that an objective analysis of his papacy be made. The Church has nothing to fear from such an analysis and should welcome it. As for Pius XII, I believe he is in heaven with his creator and those who would honor him as a holy person are free to do so now.
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James924
Guest
I’m no expert on the topic so take what I say with a grain of salt.
I fear that perhaps the call for the vatican to open its archives is a straw-man technique. You see, the evidences of this Pope’s efforts and success in protecting jews does not rest within archives, but rather within the journalism and historical investigation by JEWs who clearly record and applaud his work during the holocaust.
So, if there were indeed some secret archive that held some secret proof of the Pope’s efforts, I would agree, “open them.” But i do not know if that is the case. None of the many jewish journalists and leaders who recorded and reported on the Pope’s efforts seemed to need any secret archives to do so. I honestly think the whole bit about “open the archives” is a straw-man.
Please see the following article for further information:
catholic.com/library/HOW_Pius_XII_PROTECTED_JEWS.asp
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reggieM
Guest
According to Pope Benedict (in Salt of the Earth), there are no “secrets” in the archive. Some documents are protected by the seal of confession – to protect the confidentiality by which they were given and for the sacrament itself.
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Tsuwano
Guest
Actually, I agree with you. I think it’s a “straw man” argument as well and there are no secrets to hide about Pius XII within the archives. This is why it would be good to open them up to scholars and allow objective research to take place. Let’s burn the straw man and get it out of the way. Of course, there are people who will lie about the Pope, but if the historical record is open to view, those lies will have less life and fewer people willing to believe them.
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Tsuwano
Guest
You raise an important point here and one which had not occurred to me; namely that some documents may be protected by the seal of confession and confidentiality may be required. Perhaps there are some reasons to keep parts of the files on the Pope closed, but surely not the entire archive on his papacy. Of course, it takes time to go through the files and determine which require confidentiality and which do not, and perhaps that is what is happening now. But until those archives are opened (at least to a point which will satisfy most historians) these doubts about Pius XII and accusations against him will continue.
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JReducation
Guest
I don’t see the need to raise the flag of Catholic indignation on this issue. There are many Catholics who don’t understand the process or reasons for canonization, why would we expect non Catholics to understand it?
The Vatican’s response was very good. The canonization process is not a judgment of an individual’s contribution to a historical event or a statement about his mangement. It is a statement about his life and virtue. Even a person of heroic faith and virtue can be ineffective in his day to day duties.
What this group is looking at is at Pope Pius’ effectiveness. They find it lacking. In their mind, it is incomprehensible how we can say that someone is a candidate to be venerated as a saint, when he appeared to be so ineffective and distant during the Shoah. It is their misunderstanding of canonization that is getting in the way. Our response should be more tempered and charitable. In charity, we must explain to people how the process works and why people are canonized. That’s all.
The so called secret documents to which so many people are referring to are the documents that were examined in the study of the life of Pius XII. It is true that these documents are numerous, sometimes hundreds of volumes and thousands of pages of testimonies, writings, and reports. Generally, these are not open to the public. Usually, they are not even available to Catholics. They are stored in secure vaults. For anyone to gain access to them one must go through a very complex petition process. Even historians are not allowed to get to all of these documents. The reason is simple. These documents are saved for posterity. If they are readily available to be handled by too many people, they can become damanged, lost and even destroyed.
The answers are easy to explain to those who do not understand.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
The Vatican’s response was very good. The canonization process is not a judgment of an individual’s contribution to a historical event or a statement about his mangement. It is a statement about his life and virtue. Even a person of heroic faith and virtue can be ineffective in his day to day duties.
What this group is looking at is at Pope Pius’ effectiveness. They find it lacking. In their mind, it is incomprehensible how we can say that someone is a candidate to be venerated as a saint, when he appeared to be so ineffective and distant during the Shoah. It is their misunderstanding of canonization that is getting in the way. Our response should be more tempered and charitable. In charity, we must explain to people how the process works and why people are canonized. That’s all.
The so called secret documents to which so many people are referring to are the documents that were examined in the study of the life of Pius XII. It is true that these documents are numerous, sometimes hundreds of volumes and thousands of pages of testimonies, writings, and reports. Generally, these are not open to the public. Usually, they are not even available to Catholics. They are stored in secure vaults. For anyone to gain access to them one must go through a very complex petition process. Even historians are not allowed to get to all of these documents. The reason is simple. These documents are saved for posterity. If they are readily available to be handled by too many people, they can become damanged, lost and even destroyed.
The answers are easy to explain to those who do not understand.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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NewEnglandPriest
Guest
Well seeing that the Jewish population was decimated and scattered its not surprising that their first reaction wasn’t to obsess about the actions of the Catholic Pope. And then once Israel was established it had to literally fight for its life so, once again, they had bigger fish to fry.
Its not surprising that it took until the Church wanted to make him a saint that they started speaking up.
Modern Jewry? Jewish media elites?
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choose_to_love
Guest
NE Pries, it is not so much that there was not outrage, but affirmative acclaim for Pius XII from various Jewish sources and individuals, including Golda Meir and others, and IIRC, the Israeli State Philharmonic went to Rome to play a concert in the mid-50’s in honor of the Pope. Pinchas Lapide, Israeli diplomat, wrote a very favorable book, in the late '60’s I think, regarding the Pope’s activities in WWII and concluded that he saved ~800,000 Jews.
The Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights, whatever other faults it may have, has a good number of links in its section on P XII: catholicleague.org/pius.php which address the esteem in which the late Pope was held by his contemporaries.
The Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights, whatever other faults it may have, has a good number of links in its section on P XII: catholicleague.org/pius.php which address the esteem in which the late Pope was held by his contemporaries.
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SFH
Guest
There’s a curious logic at foot here.
Pope Pius XII doesn’t directly rebuke the Nazis for the murder of 6 million Jews during the Holocaust so he’s anti-semitic.
Pope Pius XII doesn’t directly rebuke the Nazis for the murder of 3 million Polish Catholics during the Holocaust so he’s anti-Catholic?
Is it mere coincidence that the allegations against Pope Pius XII started to emerge around the time Israel began to assert title to all of Jerusalem, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip, and the Vatican opposed these moves?
I doubt it!
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JReducation
Guest
I’m really perplexed why Catholics are commenting on this request. In my mind it makes perfect sense that someone who does not understand what the process of caonization is about and how it works should ask themselves why Pius XII is on this track. I think that we’re reading too much into this request.
We have Catholics who are opposed to John Paul II being on the tack to canonization. They blame him for countless things that went wrong in the Church during his pontificate. But they don’t understand that these temporal actions are not taken into account in the study of a person’s life.
The Church looks at the person’s life of prayer, conversion from sin, practice of virtue and the person’s proximity to the perfection of charity. She does not look at someone’s accomplishments, skills and talents, much less at their impact on history. That’s the answer here.
Rather than try to find fault in the request, it would be much better for Catholics and non-Catholics to hear how the process works and what the Church looks at. This will help them understand why Pius is on the track to canonization even he had never said a single word about the Nazis. What he did in his life of prayer and penance for the conversion of the Nazis and the welfare of humanity is what was heroic. He was a heroic man of prayer, penance, charity and fidelity. This is what makes him a holy man. The response is that simple.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
We have Catholics who are opposed to John Paul II being on the tack to canonization. They blame him for countless things that went wrong in the Church during his pontificate. But they don’t understand that these temporal actions are not taken into account in the study of a person’s life.
The Church looks at the person’s life of prayer, conversion from sin, practice of virtue and the person’s proximity to the perfection of charity. She does not look at someone’s accomplishments, skills and talents, much less at their impact on history. That’s the answer here.
Rather than try to find fault in the request, it would be much better for Catholics and non-Catholics to hear how the process works and what the Church looks at. This will help them understand why Pius is on the track to canonization even he had never said a single word about the Nazis. What he did in his life of prayer and penance for the conversion of the Nazis and the welfare of humanity is what was heroic. He was a heroic man of prayer, penance, charity and fidelity. This is what makes him a holy man. The response is that simple.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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Sonny1954
Guest
I can understand the sorrow and anger among Jews for Pius XII’s elevation. For whatever Pius might have done under the radar to lessen the sufferings of Jews; can any of us imagine JPII remaining under the radar? I can imagine him speaking loudly, boldly to the entire world that the Nazi’s “final solution” was a grave sin against God. I don’t think JPII would have taken personal consequences into account. I believe he would have spoken out.
Pius XII, on the the other hand, was most concerned that the Roman Catholic Church not have to pay a physical or financial price for opposing the Nazis. I don’t believe he was hard-hearted at all. I am sorry to say that he was a coward. As such, I believe that his beatification is most ill-advised.
Pius XII, on the the other hand, was most concerned that the Roman Catholic Church not have to pay a physical or financial price for opposing the Nazis. I don’t believe he was hard-hearted at all. I am sorry to say that he was a coward. As such, I believe that his beatification is most ill-advised.
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JReducation
Guest
First, a beatification is never advised. A beatification is the result of a proven miracle. We are not allowed to ignore that. If there is a miracle, it is God’s will that it be recognized publicly. Beatification and subsequently canonization is an infallible decreee. There is nothing that you, I or even the pope can do. He must declare the sanctity of a person. Not to do so would make the pope a heretic. A pope has to canonize when there is proof of sanctity.
Second, John Paul II was much more conservative on these issues than your post indicates. He was always very careful never to endanger the lives of innocent people. Even when he was a priest and later a bishop in Communist Poland, he never openly criticized the Communist and the Soviet Regime. His actions were always within the law. He pushed the limits, but never crossed them. He acted very responsibly, being careful not to endanger the lives of the innocent. A perfect example was when he led a group of the faithful to celebrate a mass at a site that would later be the home to a new church. He told the marchers that they were not to carry weapons. They were not back off if they were threatened by the police or the military. They were not to push the issue. Once that was made clear, they set off on their march to the site of the mass. But we must observe how he was careful to protect the safety of the people.
He used the same diplomacy in dealing with Communissm while he was pope, with the Muslim countries, with Isreal, Asia and the USA. Each time he dealt with these powers, he pushed only as far as he could, without causing harm to innocent people. It is more likely that he would have taken a very similar course of action had he been pope during WW II.
Pius XII, did not confront the Nazis head on. But to call him a coward and accuse him of covering his backside is grossly uncharitable. He authorized the falsification of millions of baptism certificates to get Jewish people moved arouind Europe. He authorized the violation of papal enclosures in monasteries to hide Jews. He authorized religious orders to lie, cheat, steal and do whatever was necessary, except murder, to protect innocent people. That’s how men like Maximilian Kolbe ended up in concentration camps. He allowed Carindal Roncalli (John XXIII) to hide children and smuggle them to Greece. He also allowed Catholic priests, bishops, and brothers to celebrate Jewish services for the Jews who were in hiding and did not have Rabbis to celebrate the holy days for them (talk about ecumenism). Cardinal Roncalli, Father Ratzinger, Friar Maximilian and Father Woytila were among those who celebrated religious services for the Jews in the underground. Pius even allowed false ordination certificates to be issued to Jewish men and false certificates of religious profession to be issued. All of these are canonically forbidden to any other bishop. Any other bishop knowingly allowing any of these things would be immediately suspended. Pius, as the giver of the law was in the position where he could suspend with the law and he did. He looked the other way when his staff at the Vatican were engaged in activities to subvert Hitler and Mussolini.
What Pius did was to hold back on a public confrontation after seeing the result that such a confrontation caused in other countries. It was such a confrontation between the bishop and the Nazis that got Edith Stein killed. As result of their anger, they went after every Hebrew Catholic that they could find.
It must also be remembered that Pius was not a diplomat or a politician. He was not trained to deal with a world at war. It was not just the Nazis that he had to concern himself with. There were the Fascists in Italy, the dictatorships in Spain and Portugal, the Socialists in Rusia, the emperor in Japan and the United States, which at that time refused to recognize the Vatican as a Sovereign nation and therefore, would not protect it if it came under attack by either Hitler or Mussolini.
The comparison between John Paul II and Pius XII is not a fair one. Just to begin with, by the time that John Paul becomes pope the Vatican is recognized as a Sovereign nation and is a political ally of many powerful nations. This was not the case under the reign of Pius XII. The Vatican was in great danger. The Italian government was very tentative about the sovereignty of the Vatican and the temporal authority of the papacy. Today, there are few nations on earth who question the sovereignty of the Vatican and the temporal authority of the papacy. Today’s popes are both religious leaders and heads of state. Pius did not have that luxury. He did the best with what he had.
Finally, his sanctity is not judged by his contribution to the effor to hold back the Nazis. These efforts do not even come under scrutiny when you study the life of a candidate for canonization. There are three areas that are studied: personal moral virtues; life of prayer; exercise of charity. What we are looking for a life of heroic virute, not heroism.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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KC91
Guest
The Church must stand strong and not give in to non-Catholic pressure. Eugenio Pacelli, Pope Pius XII, Vicar of Christ, 263rd Successor to Peter was the greatest man and Pope of the 20th century. He had good and clearly defined positions on almost anything and everything. Under him the Church flourished; 80% of Catholics went to mass every Sunday and the wealth and power of the Church was unrivalled; 25% of the world was Catholic and dozens of Concordats were signed with dozens of nations.
There were many good reasons for PXII’s silence - it would have led to the increased persecution of German Catholics and other Catholics under Nazi occupation, would make some German Catholics abandon their faith since they would feel the Vatican attacked their fatherland, would have led to the Jews being hidden inside the Vatican and other churches being captured as the Nazis would have gone in had a condemnation come out and would have compromised the neutrality of the Church which was needed as PXII tried to negotiate a peace between the both sides. But also isn’t there an important fact - PXII was the Pope of Catholics and as such the safety of Catholics are his priority.
As for the comparison between PXII and John Paul II - when JPII confronted tyrannies in the places he visited such as in Poland, Latin America and Africa he always used ambigious language but ambigous language that was clearly directed at the tyrant to any intelligble person - he could not directly attack the tyrant as this would bring bad consequences onto the church.So in this was he is similar to PXII. And JPII spoke well of PXII: he said in 1979 on the 40th anniversary of PXII’s election that he would never forget how in 1947 when he was introduced as a Polish seminarian to PXII PXII said in Polish ‘From Poland… praised by Jesus Christ’.
There were many good reasons for PXII’s silence - it would have led to the increased persecution of German Catholics and other Catholics under Nazi occupation, would make some German Catholics abandon their faith since they would feel the Vatican attacked their fatherland, would have led to the Jews being hidden inside the Vatican and other churches being captured as the Nazis would have gone in had a condemnation come out and would have compromised the neutrality of the Church which was needed as PXII tried to negotiate a peace between the both sides. But also isn’t there an important fact - PXII was the Pope of Catholics and as such the safety of Catholics are his priority.
As for the comparison between PXII and John Paul II - when JPII confronted tyrannies in the places he visited such as in Poland, Latin America and Africa he always used ambigious language but ambigous language that was clearly directed at the tyrant to any intelligble person - he could not directly attack the tyrant as this would bring bad consequences onto the church.So in this was he is similar to PXII. And JPII spoke well of PXII: he said in 1979 on the 40th anniversary of PXII’s election that he would never forget how in 1947 when he was introduced as a Polish seminarian to PXII PXII said in Polish ‘From Poland… praised by Jesus Christ’.
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Joseph_L_Varga
Guest
It is my understanding that the smear goes beyond suggesting that Pope Pius XII “didn’t do enough to save the Jews”. It’s more like “he didn’t mind that Jews were killed”.We must be able to answer those whose faith will be shaken and who will start doubting that the Church is holy and infallible, given how “a coldhearted Nazi sympathizer was beatified”.
Here’s how the play “The deputy”, which started the smear against Pope Pius XII, was conceived:
article.nationalreview.com/?q=YTUzYmJhMGQ5Y2UxOWUzNDUyNWUwODJiOTEzYjY4NzI=
timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article1400670.ece
And here’s some of the truth:
catholicnewsagency.com/news/direct_order_from_pius_xii_to_protect_jews_uncovered_by_researchers/
Here’s how the play “The deputy”, which started the smear against Pope Pius XII, was conceived:
article.nationalreview.com/?q=YTUzYmJhMGQ5Y2UxOWUzNDUyNWUwODJiOTEzYjY4NzI=
timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article1400670.ece
And here’s some of the truth:
catholicnewsagency.com/news/direct_order_from_pius_xii_to_protect_jews_uncovered_by_researchers/
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pnewton
Guest
They can appeal for all the good it will do. The Church is not a democracy and it not ran to please or appease people like this survivor group. If those appealing are willing to listen as well as talk, they might leard something. Of course, that could be said of all of us.
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KC91
Guest
Well said pnewton.
Re: Joseph, some of the smears go beyond that, claiming that PXII was anti-semitic and pro-Nazi. However a check on even Wikipedia would prove that this was not the case.
Re: Joseph, some of the smears go beyond that, claiming that PXII was anti-semitic and pro-Nazi. However a check on even Wikipedia would prove that this was not the case.
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