Holy Communion: Special circumstance--am Lutheran [edited]

[Macaroon]

I am a Lutheran, currently living in India on a field assignment for my company. I have been here for almost six months, during this time I have not been able to receive the Holy Communion, for obvious reasons. However, I live in Chennai, in Santhome, only 100 meters from St. Thomas Basilica.

As a Lutheran, I believe the Eucharist is the true Body and Blood of Christ. Is it acceptable for me to take Holy Communion at Saint Thomas?

I realize the standard answer is “no”. However, even though we have similar rules in the Lutheran Church, our pastor told me he would never refuse the Sacrament to one who had faith. May I expect similar treatment?

Please advise.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

Hi Macaroon,

Please check with the Church.

I believe you must get permission from the local Bishop, but perhaps the pastor can get that for you.

from Guidelines

Because Catholics believe that the celebration of the Eucharist is a sign of the reality of the oneness of faith, life, and worship, members of those churches with whom we are not yet fully united are ordinarily not admitted to Holy Communion. Eucharistic sharing in exceptional circumstances by other Christians requires permission according to the directives of the diocesan bishop and the provisions of canon law (canon 844 § 4). Members of the Orthodox Churches, the Assyrian Church of the East, and the Polish National Catholic Church are urged to respect the discipline of their own Churches. According to Roman Catholic discipline, the Code of Canon Law does not object to the reception of communion by Christians of these Churches (canon 844 § 3).

Can. 844 §1 Catholic ministers may lawfully administer the sacraments only to catholic members of Christ’s faithful, who equally may lawfully receive them only from catholic ministers, except as provided in §§2, 3 and 4 of this canon and in can. 861 §2.

§2 Whenever necessity requires or a genuine spiritual advantage commends it, and provided the danger of error or indifferentism is avoided, Christ’s faithful for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a catholic minister, may lawfully receive the sacraments of penance, the Eucharist and anointing of the sick from non-catholic ministers in whose Churches these sacraments are valid.

§3 Catholic ministers may lawfully administer the sacraments of penance, the Eucharist and anointing of the sick to members of the eastern Churches not in full communion with the catholic Church, if they spontaneously ask for them and are properly disposed. The same applies to members of other Churches which the Apostolic See judges to be in the same position as the aforesaid eastern Churches so far as the sacraments are concerned.

§4 If there is a danger of death or if, in the judgement of the diocesan Bishop or of the Episcopal Conference, there is some other grave and pressing need, catholic ministers may lawfully administer these same sacraments to other christians not in full communion with the catholic Church, who cannot approach a minister of their own community and who spontaneously ask for them, provided that they demonstrate the catholic faith in respect of these sacraments and are properly disposed.

God bless your faithfullness & desire to receive.

Lux

 

[Fergal]

To receive Holy Communion in the Catholic Church you must be in full communion with Her. You must know and accept **all **her teachings. In your case you would have to enter into a RCIA programme and become a Catholic first.

Yes I know that there are extraordinary situations where non-Catholics may receive Holy Communion but they do not apply here. If you were to receive then you would be sending out a very confused message. By receiving you are saying “I believe it all”, yet in practice you have obvious disagreements with some tenets of the Catholic Faith.

It is the charitable stance of Holy Mother Church to inform non-Catholics of this practice.

In short you cannot receive the Sacred Host.

 

[Macaroon]

Thank you both for your replies.

The contrast between the two is interesting. I honestly do understand the strict regulation point of view. Moreover, I agree this is not an extreme situation, as dictated by the rules.

However, I’ll check with the local priest, and ask his permission. India is very very far away from Europe or America, and I can only pray that God’s Grace will apply, and the priest will understand.

Thank you both!

Please know, I am a friend of the Catholic Church.

–Mac

 

[FrDavid96]

Thank you both for your replies.

The contrast between the two is interesting. I honestly do understand the strict regulation point of view. Moreover, I agree this is not an extreme situation, as dictated by the rules.

However, I’ll check with the local priest, and ask his permission. India is very very far away from Europe or America, and I can only pray that God’s Grace will apply, and the priest will understand.

Thank you both!

Please know, I am a friend of the Catholic Church.

–Mac

Mac,
Please understand that it’s not an act of “God’s Grace” to diminish the essential meaning of the Eucharist. There are reasons why it isn’t possible for Catholics to extend an invitation to non-Catholics to receive Communion. If we can help on these forums to explain that to you, I’m sure there are many good people here who will volunteer to do so; and I hope that we/they can lead you to such an understanding.

Also, as for asking the local priest, it’s not his decision to make.

 

[FickleFreckled]

Mac,
One of the things Catholics believe is that when a person can’t receive Holy Communion, they can receive Spiritual Communion through prayer and desire. Through it we receive the same grace and presence of Jesus as if we had received Holy Communion. If you can’t receive the physical elements, pray for Spiritual Communion. You can find Catholic prayers on the internet for this, or you can just pray something simple, like “Jesus, I can’t receive You in Holy Communion right now and You know how much I want and need to. Please come to me in Spiritual Communion.” Prepare as you would normally do for Holy Communion beforehand. You can do this as often as you like!
Or maybe the priest would be willing to pray with you for Spiritual Communion. God bless you.

 

[Ockham]

Thank you both for your replies.

The contrast between the two is interesting. I honestly do understand the strict regulation point of view. Moreover, I agree this is not an extreme situation, as dictated by the rules.

However, I’ll check with the local priest, and ask his permission. India is very very far away from Europe or America, and I can only pray that God’s Grace will apply, and the priest will understand.

Thank you both!

Please know, I am a friend of the Catholic Church.

–Mac

You could spend your time away to take the RCIA and enter into the Church. As a Lutheran you are close and five hundred years is a long time to be protesting the sale of indulgences. We don’t do that anymore, yet St. Peter’s Bascilica is a beautiful place.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

Mac,
Please understand that it’s not an act of “God’s Grace” to diminish the essential meaning of the Eucharist. There are reasons why it isn’t possible for Catholics to extend an invitation to non-Catholics to receive Communion. If we can help on these forums to explain that to you, I’m sure there are many good people here who will volunteer to do so; and I hope that we/they can lead you to such an understanding.

Also, as for asking the local priest, it’s not his decision to make.

But he could take the request to the Bishop.

 

[JCnMe]

((((Macaroon))))…I hope it works out for you-God may be directing you to the Catholic Church for more than a charitable sharing of the eucharist…the Church’s place on earth is to embrace those who seek God-and to be the representation of “home” away from “home”…and even if eucharistic communion is not possible at this point through Church doctrine-going to mass and being in spiritual communion is…it’s a start-and God knows your heart-He’ll take it from there:thumbsup: …((((hugs))))) God Bless

 

[FrDavid96]

But he could take the request to the Bishop.

Only if the situation is extreme, such as a time of war, persecution or natural disaster. Permission for extreme circumstances only applies if the circumstances are extreme. Canon law still applies, and most importantly, the theology of the Eucharist still applies. Receiving Communion is not just a matter of “getting permission” from someone. There’s a lot more to it than that.

 

[Fergal]

If you wish to receive the Sacred Host, receive the Church first!

 

[Newbie2]

One priest, long ago told a Lutheran (I was one at the time as well) in our marriage prep class to go ahead, not to worry because she didn’t have a big “L” stamped on her forehead.

I think the bigger question is if you intend to convert or are looking for a convenient place to take communion. There is still a significant difference between Lutheran and Catholic “Real Presence”, and that is the reason that only Catholics, barring reasons of emergency that have been noted, can receive the Eucharist in a Catholic Church.

 

[thistle]

I am a Lutheran, currently living in India on a field assignment for my company. I have been here for almost six months, during this time I have not been able to receive the Holy Communion, for obvious reasons. However, I live in Chennai, in Santhome, only 100 meters from St. Thomas Basilica.

As a Lutheran, I believe the Eucharist is the true Body and Blood of Christ. Is it acceptable for me to take Holy Communion at Saint Thomas?

I realize the standard answer is “no”. However, even though we have similar rules in the Lutheran Church, our pastor told me he would never refuse the Sacrament to one who had faith. May I expect similar treatment?

Please advise.

Lutherans believe its the body and blood of Christ AND still the bread and wine (i.e. consubstantiation) which is a heresy.

Catholics believe the bread and wine become the Body and Blood of Christ (i.e. transubstantiation).

 

[benedictgal]

As Fr. David noted, the circumstances must be grave and dire. Perhaps the Lord is using this as a moment of grace for you to inquire about the Catholic Faith, the very Faith that St. Thomas gave his life for when preaching about the Gospel in India.

As others have noted, it is not simply a matter of receiving the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ; receiving Holy Communion also means that you are in Communion with the one True, Holy and Apostolic Church founded by Christ on the rock of St. Peter. It means making that strong profession of faith. It also means that one must be properly disposed, meaning being in the state of grace, in order to receive.

It is not that the Church is being uncharitable; however, the Holy Eucharist is her greatest treasure because her divine Spouse, Jesus Christ left Himself to her as her sustenance.

In the meantime, nothing prevents you from making a spiritual communion.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

I think the bigger question is if you intend to convert or are looking for a convenient place to take communion.

It is not only a convenience, but the only place to receive. I believe it is up to the bishop to decide if this is a serious circumstance.

Originally Posted by Newbie2
There is still a significant difference between Lutheran and Catholic “Real Presence”, and that is the reason that only Catholics, barring reasons of emergency that have been noted, can receive the Eucharist in a Catholic Church.

Can 844§4 If there is a danger of death or if, in the judgement of the diocesan Bishop or of the Episcopal Conference, there is some other grave and pressing need, catholic ministers may lawfully administer these same sacraments to other christians not in full communion with the catholic Church, who cannot approach a minister of their own community and who spontaneously ask for them, provided that they demonstrate the catholic faith in respect of these sacraments and are properly disposed.

No one here has the authority to make this decision.

Lux

 

[FrDavid96]

It is not only a convenience, but the only place to receive. I believe it is up to the bishop to decide if this is a serious circumstance.

No one here has the authority to make this decision.

Lux

That’s right. The bishop decides. Yet, at the same time, even the bishop only has legitimate authority to make that decision within the canon laws and the theology of the Church.

That’s why the church defines these circumstances as extreme and the interpretation of that canon is that the circumstances are war, persecution, or natural disaster. That’s “grave and pressing need” from canon 844 which you quoted earlier. The latin words are “urgeat gravis necessitas” which is about the strongest possible words the Church employs in describing any given situation.

I would suggest that it’s not up to you to expand upon the requirements defined by the Church as to when non-Catholics may receive the Eucharist.

Yes indeed, one may find a priest (or perhaps even a bishop) who would be willing to disobey the discipline of the Church and inappropriately give permission for something which should not be done. Suggesting that a person seek-out such a priest, or ask the question in hopes that the priest will be disobedient does not contribute positively to the situation.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

Respectfully, I must disagree.

Where is your interpretation documented. What about seriously ill? (but not categorized as “in danger of death”) and what if that situation deteriorates after the person is refused? Do you want to live with that?

I was once told the Church chooses her words very carefully, and if there is room for interpretation by a Bishop, it is intentional. Perhaps you do not feel that being deprived of the Eucharist is a “grave or pressing need”, but I hope some bishop may. I will respect his interpretation----perhaps this is what God intended.

Lux

 

[Shin]

If you receive the Body and Blood of Christ while rejecting the Church, you receive the Body and Blood of Christ while rejecting Christ.

You will drink judgement upon your soul, committing more than one great sin in this act.

Refrain. Become Catholic and go to Confession first.

 

[benedictgal]

That’s right. The bishop decides. Yet, at the same time, even the bishop only has legitimate authority to make that decision within the canon laws and the theology of the Church.

That’s why the church defines these circumstances as extreme and the interpretation of that canon is that the circumstances are war, persecution, or natural disaster. That’s “grave and pressing need” from canon 844 which you quoted earlier. The latin words are “urgeat gravis necessitas” which is about the strongest possible words the Church employs in describing any given situation.

I would suggest that it’s not up to you to expand upon the requirements defined by the Church as to when non-Catholics may receive the Eucharist.

Yes indeed, one may find a priest (or perhaps even a bishop) who would be willing to disobey the discipline of the Church and inappropriately give permission for something which should not be done. Suggesting that a person seek-out such a priest, or ask the question in hopes that the priest will be disobedient does not contribute positively to the situation.

Thank you for that very informative post. It is not up to us to support abrogating the rules of the Church in the name of charity. Charity demands honesty and fidelity. While the OP’s desire may be sincere, it is unfortunate that there exists a chasm that he cannot yet cross until the divisions cease. That is sad, but, it is the reality. That is why the Church chooses to call the Protestant groups ecclesial communities because they are not churches, as she understands the term to mean.

Now, some can make the argument about the Church and the Orthodox, but, the circumstances here are very different. The Church considers the Orthodox to be Sister Churches. She lets her children receive Holy Communion in their Churches and allows the Orthodox to receive Our Lord in hers.

The Holy Eucharist is not something to be played with and dispensed with as we please. That is why, as you have noted, the Church is very strict in governing how the Holy Eucharist is to be distributed and to whom. As you well noted, we can’t priest-shop simply because we want to get things to go our way.

 

[FrDavid96]

Respectfully, I must disagree.

Where is your interpretation documented. What about seriously ill? (but not categorized as “in danger of death”) and what if that situation deteriorates after the person is refused? Do you want to live with that?

I was once told the Church chooses her words very carefully, and if there is room for interpretation by a Bishop, it is intentional. Perhaps you do not feel that being deprived of the Eucharist is a “grave or pressing need”, but I hope some bishop may. I will respect his interpretation----perhaps this is what God intended.

Lux

That’s how the Church interprets it–war, persecution, or natural disaster.

Seriously ill does not meet the requirement because that’s not “danger of death,” [edited] it’s not the priest who refuses anyone Communion, it’s the individual who chooses not to be a member of the Church, and chooses to be ineligible to receive the Eucharist, thereby depriving himself of the graces of the Eucharist.

And as far as my own conscience goes, I assure you that it is quite content to know that I am respecting the dignity of the Eucharist by not falsely admitting one to sacramental communion who is not in communion with the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church–which God founded by His own intentions.

What you are hoping for is some bishop who will disregard the practice, theology, and laws of the Church.

I venture to say that you only “respect his interpretation” if that interpretation is one which inappropriately allows for Communion and is a violation of the Sacrament.