Holy Cow!

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Tietjen said:
Just as respectfully… no, it’s my silly response to a silly topic. I have no problem with people who don’t want to eat meat (there’s that much more for me), but with all the real problems that face the world today, I don’t really see this as being in the upper part of the list. So, I too may taking a breather and being silly. 😉
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Ok… thanks —
I can appreciate that if it is something that you haven’t given a lot of consideration to - this topic may seem silly - or not a ‘real’ problem.

I am one who up till about five years ago I might have agreed with you - but I learned about the way food is produced in the US today for the most part - animal protein comes from factory farms - that not only have issues about the way the animals are treated, but the environmental damage, the impact on the communities and the workers - so since I can easily (and actually cheaper) get by with vegetable protein - we’ve made the switch.

I love your signature - my signature line has a comment from our Holy Father who also has spoken about the issues of how animals are treated when being raised for food. 😉

Peace
 
4elise said:
Ok… thanks —
I can appreciate that if it is something that you haven’t given a lot of consideration to - this topic may seem silly - or not a ‘real’ problem.

I am one who up till about five years ago I might have agreed with you - but I learned about the way food is produced in the US today for the most part - animal protein comes from factory farms - that not only have issues about the way the animals are treated, but the environmental damage, the impact on the communities and the workers - so since I can easily (and actually cheaper) get by with vegetable protein - we’ve made the switch.

I love your signature - my signature line has a comment from our Holy Father who also has spoken about the issues of how animals are treated when being raised for food. 😉

Peace
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All of my silliness aside, I am not trying to offend anyone. I do however know myself well enough to know what I like and don’t like and I simply enjoy beef, pork, turkey, chicken, etc too much to come to the conclusion that you came to. I respect the fact that you can leave behind all animal products and be happy; I however, would not be able to do that. Aside from the fact that I love steak too much, if I were to empty my fridge of all animal based products I think the only thing that I would have in there was a jar of apple sauce. And there is simply no way anyone can convince me that they can make a bean taste as good or better than a rib eye. God bless.
 
Tietjen said:
All of my silliness aside, I am not trying to offend anyone. I do however know myself well enough to know what I like and don’t like and I simply enjoy beef, pork, turkey, chicken, etc too much to come to the conclusion that you came to. I respect the fact that you can leave behind all animal products and be happy; I however, would not be able to do that. Aside from the fact that I love steak too much, if I were to empty my fridge of all animal based products I think the only thing that I would have in there was a jar of apple sauce. And there is simply no way anyone can convince me that they can make a bean taste as good or better than a rib eye. God bless.
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Thank you for not trying to offend anyone. I am only vegetarian, trying to be vegan and hope to. I am sure 4elise can give you enough vegan recipes so you can restock your fridge and never miss meat again. I hope.🙂
 
Originally Posted by 4elise
Have you tried Agave Nectar -
pnewton said:
I have, after it had been fermented, distilled, mixed with lime juice, triple sec and garnished with salt and lime.
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What*** is ***that??? A margarita or something??? I haven’t tried the agave nectar myself, but I am seeing it in the stores I shop at.

I’m in a hurry this AM–I’ll post later–there were a lot of really good posts to respond to. I always like Ridgerunner’s posts and we finely found someone (4elise) who is stickin’ up for the bees. Don’t shoot me ***4elise ***but I did buy a few items with honey in them. I will review your info on bees.

I also need to research what I saw on the **Today Show **this AM. A new pet is gaining popularity–it is a mini-pig!!! I don’t know how big they get–but the one on the show was the size of a chihuahua. They story came out of England. If this catches on I think it will have an impact on the pork industry.
 
severus68 said:
Thank you for not trying to offend anyone. I am only vegetarian, trying to be vegan and hope to. I am sure 4elise can give you enough vegan recipes so you can restock your fridge and never miss meat again. I hope.🙂
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I’d be happy to! — on the Catholic Vegetarian and Vegan group here on CAF we are now sharing quick bean recipes - if you have one to share there come on over to the Vegan Foods Have Flavor thread and add it 😉 …
 
Marfran said:
Originally Posted by 4elise
Have you tried Agave Nectar -

What*** is ***that??? A margarita or something??? I haven’t tried the agave nectar myself, but I am seeing it in the stores I shop at.

I’m in a hurry this AM–I’ll post later–there were a lot of really good posts to respond to. I always like Ridgerunner’s posts and we finely found someone (4elise) who is stickin’ up for the bees. Don’t shoot me ***4elise ***but I did buy a few items with honey in them. I will review your info on bees.

I also need to research what I saw on the **Today Show **this AM. A new pet is gaining popularity–it is a mini-pig!!! I don’t know how big they get–but the one on the show was the size of a chihuahua. They story came out of England. If this catches on I think it will have an impact on the pork industry.
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Oh my… this may make people ‘love a pig’ and be less inclined to eat pork… but I think there are many people in the US today who not only are unaware of how pigs live before they become bacon - they also don’t know that bacon comes from pigs!

Like breeding dogs or cats for pets ---- l wonder if these mini-pigs are breed for being pets, like the pot bellied pigs were - when so many pets are killed each year at shelters I hope people will consider a shelter for a little buddy like my very sweet black lab mix… 😉

FYI - Agave nectar - I posted in the previous thread is apparently OK for diabetics because of the low glycemic response:thumbsup: - I certainly didn’t know anything about the bees and honey till a couple of years ago - But this may be a much bigger issue than saving the lives of bees ----- I can’t find the article I read that linked the development of commercial honey bees with the loss of native pollinators - but this one may have some of the same information: hubpages.com/hub/support-the-honeygatherers ---- We NEED the the WILD bees - but when the commercial ones come in they wind up replacing - apparently wiping out - the native ones.
 
Marfran said:
Originally Posted by 4elise
Have you tried Agave Nectar -

What*** is ***that??? A margarita or something??? I haven’t tried the agave nectar myself, but I am seeing it in the stores I shop at.

I’m in a hurry this AM–I’ll post later–there were a lot of really good posts to respond to. I always like Ridgerunner’s posts and we finely found someone (4elise) who is stickin’ up for the bees. Don’t shoot me ***4elise ***but I did buy a few items with honey in them. I will review your info on bees.

I also need to research what I saw on the **Today Show **this AM. A new pet is gaining popularity–it is a mini-pig!!! I don’t know how big they get–but the one on the show was the size of a chihuahua. They story came out of England. If this catches on I think it will have an impact on the pork industry.
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I wonder how they get the pig “mini” … Do the genetically alter it? Take it from it’s mom really young?

As per the honey, St John the Baptist’s diet consisted of locusts and honey. 🙂
 
Mary_Gail_36 said:
I wonder how they get the pig “mini” … Do the genetically alter it? Take it from it’s mom really young?

As per the honey, St John the Baptist’s diet consisted of locusts and honey. 🙂
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Locust and WILD honey.

Not honey produced by commercial honey bees dragged in boxes across the state - *that are endangering the native pollinators. *
 
4elise said:
Locust and WILD honey.

Not honey produced by commercial honey bees dragged in boxes across the state - *that are endangering the native pollinators. *
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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollinator_decline

Is that what is happening? I have a few cute fuzzy bumblebees that visit my lavender plant out front, (and some pretty monarch butterflies.) I don’t know if the bees that visit my plant are actually “employed” at all at a hive. They don’t seem to be mistreated…

Here is the link to the Sue bee honey company. They do not own all the hives, but purchase the honey from Associations members.

suebeehoney.com/history.asp
 
Ridgerunner said:
But animals just are not people. What causes them pain is not what causes me pain, and vice-versa. One could say of them that they have emotions of a sort, but they’re not human emotions by miles and miles. What they have in the way of “desire” is not even remotely what we have. What they have as “fears” are nothing like human fears. What they have in the way of what we might superficially think of as “kindness” or “cruelty” don’t resemble our kindnesses or cruelties at all. (Animals are breathtakingly “cruel” if you think of them in human terms, but you can’t.) They’re not us, and we’re not them. Maybe you have to live among them a good while to know all that.somehow there is grace in both things.
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And nobody’s sayin’ that they’re people.What causes them pain also causes us pain, though–physically speaking. We humans are also capable of emotional pain. Though I have witnessed animals mourn for the loss of a companion, animal and/or human.

I work with animals too, in a different way than you, and have had to learn their language, earn their trust, try to understand what causes them fear and how to reduce those fears and/or elimate stressors from their environment.

Even animals of the same species do not behave the same way, and do exhibit individual personalities and preferences.
 
pnewton said:
Yes. Agave is what is fermented to make tequilla.
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Well I learned something new today!!! Thanks, pnewton!!! BTW: which liquor is it that has the worm in it??? Aside from being gross, do we really need to kill worms for our intoxications??? I of course have more sympathy/empathy for the dog and the cow than the worm, but do we really need to drown worms in booze??? I have no idea what the worm is doing in there–I guess it’s obvious I’m not a drinker!
 
Marfran said:
Well I learned something new today!!! Thanks, pnewton!!! BTW: which liquor is it that has the worm in it??? Aside from being gross, do we really need to kill worms for our intoxications??? I of course have more sympathy/empathy for the dog and the cow than the worm, but do we really need to drown worms in booze???
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Few brands of tquilla have worms. Most of us are adverse to sharing our alcohol with insects. Maybe in Mexico this can be found more readily.
 
4elise said:
I found this web site that has LOADS of info on why honey is not vegan - friendsofanimals.org/actionline/fall-2004/is-honey-vegan.html
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You know, just looking at it briefly, there are a few factual errors. Queen bees do not reproduce sexually. Queen bees reproduce by parthenogenosis, producing the worker bees or drones. The worker bees don’t reproduce. So the idea that they are being artificially inseminated doesn’t seem true to me.

Honey production seems to be quite licit. That’s what bees do. Honey is a really great food product. It is used in the Bible as a symbol for abundance.

Finally, Penn State has a department researching honey bees. Please note:

ento.psu.edu/directory/research-issues/honey-bee-and-pollinator-research
 
4elise said:
hubpages.com/hub/support-the-honeygatherers ---- We NEED the the WILD bees - but when the commercial ones come in they wind up replacing - apparently wiping out - the native ones.
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**Holy cow!!! **Did you read this about bees?:

“According to experts, if bees were to disappear then humanity wouldn’t survive more than a few years. That is what Einstein once predicted: “If the bee disappears from the surface of the earth, humans would follow within four years.” No more bees would mean no more pollination, and as a result, no more crops and plants. With no plants to feed on, animals and people wouldn’t be able to survive. No more bees would simply mean the end of life on earth.”

Maybe that’s why we have “permission” to eat meat. To survive in times extreme climate conditions, and to survive after the bees are wiped out… well, only for a little while…
 
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