holy father?

[myfavoritmartin]

…
So… How do you know you are right in your teaching?

May you be blessed in your journey

In Christ

Scripture tells us teachers will be held to a higher accountability…
Now if these teachers continue in Gods word… They too will grow in the grace and knowledge of Christ.
For this promise is for every man that has the Spirit of God in them…
This is why we are told to test everyting that is spoken to us with scripture allowing scripture to interpret scripture for scripture cannot be broken…
So if one desires to be a teacher they will certainly be held to a higher accountability that us that are the listeners but our accountability is also in the scriptures for Jesus said You err not knowing the scripture…
If I put my what ifs into Christ Jesus my Lord and what He tells me from His word my what ifs are swallowed up in Victory. For Christ is my Victory

 

[myfavoritmartin]

John said to him, “Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in your name, and we tried to stop him, because he was not following us.” But Jesus said, **"Do not stop him; for no one who does a deed of power in my name will be able soon afterward to speak evil of me. Whoever is not against us is for us. **Mark 9:38-40

 

[heisenburg]

But you still do not provide an answer… How do you know your understanding of scripture is accurate? I am not providing what ifs I am simply saying is it possible your understanding is wrong and/or How do you know you are right?

 

[clmowry]

Or its another situation where the easy definition of Christs’ words is getting twisted to fit to a later tradition of man…
YEP seems very likely in this case.

Well…yeah. That would be exactly my interpretation of what you are doing. But I wasn’t prepared to be quite this blunt.

Kinda like the graven image verse…Doesn’t apply to ROME! Oh yeah and the bowing to people one, oh yeah and the abstaining from meat one, OH yeah and the forbidding marraige one, OH yeah and the communicating with the dead one, OH yeah and the mediator one, OH oh yeah and the eating flesh and blood one, oh yeah and the vain repetition of prayer one.

Yes it would appear you have these wrong as well.

Chuck

 

[myfavoritmartin]

But you still do not provide an answer… How do you know your understanding of scripture is accurate? I am not providing what ifs I am simply saying is it possible your understanding is wrong and/or How do you know you are right?

Here is what Christ promised me.

He promised HIS sheep would hear his voice
also
John 14:16-17,And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, to be with you for ever. This is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, because he abides with you, and he will be in you.

Christ is in me therefore I will be guided in spirit and in truth unto salvation.

 

[mercygate]

Here is what Christ promised me.

He promised HIS sheep would hear his voice
also
John 14:16-17,And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, to be with you for ever. This is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, because he abides with you, and he will be in you.

Christ is in me therefore I will be guided in spirit and in truth unto salvation.

Q. To whom did Jesus give the sheep?
A. Peter.
Q. Who was at the table when Jesus promised to send the Advocate?
A. Only the eleven.
Q. Of whom did Jesus say “He who rejects you, rejects me?”
A. Peter and the Apostles.
Q. How is it that the Advocate guides me to embrace the Church connected to Christ both physically and doctrinally through Peter and the Apostles but guides you to despise her?
A. Who knows? The Spirit bloweth where it listeth.

 

[toaslan]

myfavmartin:

Kinda like the graven image verse…Doesn’t apply to ROME!
oh yeah and the bowing to people one, oh yeah and the abstaining from meat one, OH yeah and the forbidding marraige one, OH yeah and the communicating with the dead one, OH yeah and the mediator one, OH oh yeah and the eating flesh and blood one, oh yeah and the vain repetition of prayer one.

OH…don’t forget another stink bomb *myfavmartin *threw on another thread before disappearing–he equally ignorantly said it was at one time a Catholic Dogma that the sun orbited the earth–but neglected to prove it–or anything else. He has the same old bits and pieces of anti-Catholic anti-history. He would do well to try sometime reading full texts on his own out of mainstream and even Catholic sources; because his thought has gone through such a heavy anti-Catholic filter that nothing but bias seems to survive. I like to learn from the non-Catholics on this forum, but what myfavmartin illuminates, for me, is prejudice, sadly. Holy Spirit, bless and console him.

 

[estesbob]

Here is what Christ promised me.

Christ is in me therefore I will be guided in spirit and in truth unto salvation.

So you are the final arbitor of what Scripture means? Must be a very heady experience. I am, however, wondering if what you say is true way this has led to some 30,000 different Protestant denomination all with differing interperations of what the truth is.

Are you the only one who has this special power or is it everyone who reads scripture. And if it applies to everyone why does “everyone” come up with differnet answers?

 

[heisenburg]

Christ is in me therefore I will be guided in spirit and in truth unto salvation

Then why is it that there are so many different understandings of the same verse. Protestantism doesn’t even agree with you about ‘calling no man father’ I have an NIV bible whose commentary explicitly says about this verse that it is NOT to be taken literally, but more a comment on people who put titles on themselves to gloat…

You cannot simply say “God Told me…” this gets back to the three part question I asked. Even Scripture says Scripture is hard to understand (Acts- Remember the Eunuch, Peter - Pauls writting’s are Hard to understand)

God doesn’t protect us against making mistakes. In fact, thats the one of the reason for Christ, so that when we DO make mistakes, we can take those mistakes to him.

Do you believe that your understanding is Infallible? If you don’t, How do you know your understanding is right?

In Christ

 

[myfavoritmartin]

OH…don’t forget another stink bomb *myfavmartin *threw on another thread before disappearing–he equally ignorantly said it was at one time a Catholic Dogma that the sun orbited the earth–but neglected to prove it–or anything else. He has the same old bits and pieces of anti-Catholic anti-history. He would do well to try sometime reading full texts on his own out of mainstream and even Catholic sources; because his thought has gone through such a heavy anti-Catholic filter that nothing but bias seems to survive. I like to learn from the non-Catholics on this forum, but what myfavmartin illuminates, for me, is prejudice, sadly. Holy Spirit, bless and console him.

Don’t misrepresent me! how very uncharitable.
Stink bomb? what are you in 2nd grade?
Did not say it was dogma! Though there was papal bull which condemned any books promoting such a thing, and the papal condemnation thrown at Galileo labeled him a heretic for not backing down and agreeing with the incorrect interpretation the magisterium put forward…
READ IT! Speculatores domis israel.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Paul still teaches us today… It is all written in scripture and it is the Holy Spirit that reveals what God is saying. This is why Scripture tells us this.
1Co 2:5 so that your faith would not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God.
1Co 2:6 Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away;
1Co 2:7 but we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory;
1Co 2:8the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory;
1Co 2:9 but just as it is written, “THINGS WHICH EYE HAS NOT SEEN AND EAR HAS NOT HEARD, AND which HAVE NOT ENTERED THE HEART OF MAN, ALL THAT GOD HAS PREPARED FOR THOSE WHO LOVE HIM.”
1Co 2:10 For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.
1Co 2:11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God,
1Co 2:13 which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.
1Co 2:14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
1Co 2:15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one.
1Co 2:16 For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE WILL INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ.

 

[heisenburg]

toaslan —
I agree with Martin… While I am not attacking you, No matter how much you disagree or think someone is just trying to start a fight… you must ALWAYS act in charity… We Arent the only one reading it. How do these sort of response make us Christian?

In Christ

 

[mercygate]

Paul still teaches us today… It is all written in scripture and it is the Holy Spirit that reveals what God is saying. This is why Scripture tells us this.
1Co 2:5 so that your faith would not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God.
1Co 2:6 Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away;
1Co 2:7 but we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory;
1Co 2:8the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory;
1Co 2:9 but just as it is written, “THINGS WHICH EYE HAS NOT SEEN AND EAR HAS NOT HEARD, AND which HAVE NOT ENTERED THE HEART OF MAN, ALL THAT GOD HAS PREPARED FOR THOSE WHO LOVE HIM.”
1Co 2:10 For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.
1Co 2:11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God,
1Co 2:13 which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.
1Co 2:14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
1Co 2:15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one.
1Co 2:16 For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE WILL INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ.

martin, these are all verses which can be applied equally to affirm the teaching authority of the Church. All you are doing is affirming your primary position that if martin says this is what Scripture means, then it must be so. IOW: My Holy Spirit can beat up your Holy Spirit.

The faith of one-man/one-bible simply cannot stand. It’s just an excuse for self promotion. The Church must with the assurance of faith sustain the Charism of the Master throughout the millennia. Me and my Bible can’t possibly sustain such a burden.

Just to verse-sling right back atcha: WE HAVE THE MIND OF CHRIST.

 

[Pax]

…
…
…

Christ is in me therefore I will be guided in spirit and in truth unto salvation.

I am surprised that you still think that you are right in your criticism of Catholic practice of calling a priest “father.” The information given to you on this thread is the truth guided by the Holy Spirit and you are being led thereby in truth unto salvation.

Our religious beliefs run deep and it is sometimes difficult to admit that we are wrong. In this particular case you have been taught something that is simply not true. Letting go of this particular error may be difficult for you, but please pray on this with an open heart and read over all that was pointed out to you on this thread.

Even protestants used to call their ministers “father” until rather recently. Karl Keating of Catholic Answers did a nice bit of research on this point. The change in Protestant practice was not due to a problem with the practice, but rather the erroneous belief that there was a real opportunity to use “call no man father” against Catholics. So much has been lost by Protestants in knowing their own history and the biblical basis for these things that they neither know their own traditions or the reasons for them.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with calling a priest “father” or a teacher “teacher.” The violation has to do with doctrinal divisions and varied schools of thought that are disruptive to unity and the truth. Read what Paul has to say about factions and you will get a greater appreciation for the problem. Likewise, read John 17 and all that Jesus says about unity. Factions, divisions, varied doctrines, itching ears for teachers unto one’s own liking, and the rejection of authority are the things Jesus and the apostles are concerned about. The common uses of the terms father and teacher are not part of this.

I hope this helps.

 

[Church_Militant]

Paul still teaches us today… It is all written in scripture and it is the Holy Spirit that reveals what God is saying. This is why Scripture tells us this. 1Co 2:5-16

Now this is a good case in point.

MfM says that everyone who is a believer and reads the Bible can rightly divide it. His case fails in that there are a myriad of interpretations and all profess to be correct, which cannot be true, right?

Then, in another thread concerning apostolic succession, another n-C says,

Hi CM
… There could be four or five people recieving votes when considering who will be the pope, that doesn’t sound like being led by the Holy Spirit to me. The Holy Spirit wouldn’t lead some in one direction and others in another direction.

So? Which one is correct? By their own words and logic…neither.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

martin, these are all verses which can be applied equally to affirm the teaching authority of the Church. All you are doing is affirming your primary position that if martin says this is what Scripture means, then it must be so. IOW: My Holy Spirit can beat up your Holy Spirit.

The faith of one-man/one-bible simply cannot stand. It’s just an excuse for self promotion. The Church must with the assurance of faith sustain the Charism of the Master throughout the millennia. Me and my Bible can’t possibly sustain such a burden.

Just to verse-sling right back atcha: WE HAVE THE MIND OF CHRIST.

Colossians 3:10
10and have (A)put on the new self who is **being (B)renewed ****to a true knowledge **(C)according to the image of the One who (D)created him–

 

[estesbob]

Don’t misrepresent me! how very uncharitable.
Stink bomb? what are you in 2nd grade?
Did not say it was dogma! Though there was papal bull which condemned any books promoting such a thing, and the papal condemnation thrown at Galileo labeled him a heretic for not backing down and agreeing with the incorrect interpretation the magisterium put forward…
READ IT! Speculatores domis israel.

So why wasnt Copernicus (a Catholic Priest) thrown out of the Church? And why did the Church continue to fund him after he published his findiings? I suggest tou go to this link(I assume you know a link is even though you never back up what you say with one) that will help clear up your confuison on this:

ewtn.com/library/HOMELIBR/GALILEO.HTM

Now back to the subject at hand. Are you the final arbitor of what Scripture means?

 

[estesbob]

Colossians 3:10
10and have (A)put on the new self who is **being (B)renewed ****to a true knowledge **(C)according to the image of the One who (D)created him–

Per you personal interpertation-but who gave you the authority to interpert Scripture for the rest of us?

 

[mercygate]

Colossians 3:10
10and have (A)put on the new self who is **being (B)renewed ****to a true knowledge **(C)according to the image of the One who (D)created him–

Same thing. Us too.

 

[estesbob]

Paul still teaches us today… It is all written in scripture and it is the Holy Spirit that reveals what God is saying. This is why Scripture tells us this.
1Co 2:5 so that your faith would not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God.
1Co 2:6 Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away;
1Co 2:7 but we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory;
1Co 2:8the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory;
1Co 2:9 but just as it is written, “THINGS WHICH EYE HAS NOT SEEN AND EAR HAS NOT HEARD, AND which HAVE NOT ENTERED THE HEART OF MAN, ALL THAT GOD HAS PREPARED FOR THOSE WHO LOVE HIM.”
1Co 2:10 For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.
1Co 2:11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God,
1Co 2:13 which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.
1Co 2:14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
1Co 2:15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one.
1Co 2:16 For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE WILL INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ.

Nice cut n paste but why should we accept your interperation of these verses?