holy father?

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I do not think the Holy Spirit of God will err. However, I have witnessed errors in a great number of individuals in matters pertaining to eternal life, all of whom claim to have “the mind of Christ”, by way of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
Such as?
I think the only difference would be that Catholics know none of the ways that God has given us to understand scripture are meant to be separated from the Sacred Traditions from which those scriptures emerged.

You speak about “rightly dividing” scripture. It is like you are trying to cut with only half of a pair of scissors.
I don’t speak of rightly dividing scripture…Scripture speaks of it!
2 Timothy 2:15 (King James Version)

15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
 
Careful you are mocking God!
To human is to error, but the Holy Spirit whom dwells within me can not error.

Eph. 4:30, And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
Im sorry-I dont interpert these verses the way you do.
To human is to error, but the Holy Spirit whom dwells within me can not error.
 
You mock God, my conversation with you is finished…I am not comfortable with your ways.
You mean you are not comfortable with the ways of one who’s only argument is “thats the way I interpert Scripture”?

POT>>>KETTLE>>>BLACK
 
Such as?

I don’t speak of rightly dividing scripture…Scripture speaks of it!
2 Timothy 2:15 (King James Version)

15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Per your personal interpertation-by what authority do you interpert Scripture fr the rest of us?
 
Which one is that?

Getting back to the OP, do you guys know when your church began using the term Father or Holy Father?
The place where they keys are!

Our Church has always used the words “father” and “teacher” in the same way that our founder,Jesus used them. This custom is found in the Apostolic Traditions that have been passed on to us:
Beginning with the New Testament writers

The Apostle Paul :

Acts 22:1
“Brethren and fathers, hear the defense which I now make before you.”

Acts 28:17
“Brethren, though I had done nothing against the people or the customs of our fathers,”

1 Cor 4:15-16
15 For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel."

Eph 6:4
4 Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.

2 Tim 1:3

3 I thank God whom I serve with a clear conscience, as did my fathers, when I remember you constantly in my prayers.

when Paul speaks of fathers,most of the time he is referring to those who came before him in the faith.

THe Apostle Peter

Acts 3:13
the God of our fathers, glorified his servant Jesus,

2 Peter 3:4
For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things have continued as they were from the beginning of creation."

Peter refers to those who came before us in the faith as fathers.

The Apostle John

1 John 2:13
13 I am writing to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning"

St. Stephen, martyr

Acts 7:2
2 And Stephen said: "Brethren and fathers, hear me. "

Acts 5:30
30 The God of our fathers raised Jesus "

Yet we all only have One Heavenly Father, who has been revealed to us by His son Jesus.
 
Careful you are mocking God!
To human is to error, but the Holy Spirit whom dwells within me can not error.

Eph. 4:30, And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

You mock God, my conversation with you is finished…I am not comfortable with your ways.
I disagree. He’s not mocking God. He’s demonstrating to you the fallacy of your rhetoric by showing you that what you have alleged cuts both ways. :knight2:
Getting back to the OP, do you guys know when your church began using the term Father or Holy Father?
Why don’t you enlighten us with this knowledge? I have a feeling that I already know what you’re going to offer and will refute your source as soon as you provide it.

(You really should get more reliable sources Simon.)
 
I disagree. He’s not mocking God. He’s demonstrating to you the fallacy of your rhetoric by showing you that what you have alleged cuts both ways.
Exactly! My intperperations were nonsesne because they completely contradicted 2,000 years of teachings and traditions. If , however, we interpert Scripture in a Vacuumn all sorts of abuses creep in.
Why don’t you enlighten us with this knowledge? I have a feeling that I already know what you’re going to offer and will refute your source as soon as you provide it.

(You really should get more reliable sources Simon.)
Bet he wont provide a link
 
I disagree. He’s not mocking God. He’s demonstrating to you the fallacy of your rhetoric by showing you that what you have alleged cuts both ways.
Exactly-however I believe my take on not trusting Space Aliens is supported by the Scripture I quoted:D
 
Exactly-however I believe my take on not trusting Space Aliens is supported by the Scripture I quoted😃
Probably…those uppity jerks have never stopped by to see me and I of all people would enjoy that. :mad:
 
Whose interpretation of the History?
Oh please…you’ve rejected Catholic history, secular history, and the Early Church Fathers. There is no Protestant history prior to the Reformation. Scripture is all that is left. So you are now unfettered by what has been handed down by the Church, by the historical record, and the Early Church Fathers.

You have just placed yourself and your personal understandings and interpretations of scripture above “everything” else. This includes the pillar and bulwark of the truth.
 
Oh please…you’ve rejected Catholic history, secular history, Scripture is all that is left…
I am constantly amazed how you guys verbally treat the written word of God.

Scripture gives us what we need unto salvation.
 
I am constantly amazed how you guys verbally treat the written word of God.

**Scripture gives us what we need unto salvation. **
Based on who’s interperation of Scripture?

You are the one who mistreats Scripture. Beliveng it is nothing more than a complex puzzle book that all of us must individually cipher to gain Salvation.
 

Charity…​

Martin… I want to focus for a minute on the reason for this thread. You believe based on your interpretation that the verse in question says not to call any man father, teacher, rabbi, etc. While I do not want to take it to the level of saying what do you call your dad, or what is your church elder called… I do want to take a differant approach.

You believe that Christ will guide the believe to the correct understanding of scripture, and while I respectfully disagree with that understanding, we still have a huge problem of interpretation. Let’s not look at the Catholic perspective for a moment. Even in protestantism, there is no agreement on this verse. Some, like yourself, believe it is to be take in an extremely literal way. Others, believe that it is talking about giving yourself title so that you may boast, and thus, putting yourself above God. As I mentioned before, even the NIV Study bible i have does not agree with you.

So, the question comes back, If, as you believe, God will guide a true believer to truth in scripture, then why are there so many people, even in Protestantism, that disagree with you. If your response is simply “they are not indwelled”, are you saying that every single person that does not hold to this view is not indwelled? Are you saying that the entire Episcopal, Lutheran Faith are not valid as well because they also use the term Father? What about the Protestants that write the Commentary for one of the most popular Protestant Bibles? Are they not indwelled?

I do understand your argument, But there still is the problem of how do you know where your understanding came from?
  1. Past experiences?
  2. Devil?
  3. God?
The bible goes into great detail about nothing but truth can come from Christ, as you have astutely pointed out. If that understanding does come from Christ, then yes, you cannot error. But there is also more than one source for an interpretation as I have mention. Your understanding could come from human experiences, and not God. Or it could come from the demons themselves trying to deceive you away from Christ. Without help, You cannot know based on your own emotions either since the bible says emotions can lead to deceit.
Furthermore, the bible is also very clear to point out that Jesus’s teachings, and those that write about his teachings are frequently hard to understand. This is one of the reasons for teachers.

How do you know your interpretation is Valid? How do you know your understanding of Truth is Valid? How do you know your understanding is from God?

May you be blessed in your Journey

IN Christ
 
“holy Father”

IN SCRIPTURE THE TERM IS USED ONCE…
John 17:11 (New International Version)

11I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one.

This is Jesus praying to God the Father, It sure seems any other use of this term would be pure blasphemy.
 
I am constantly amazed how you guys verbally treat the written word of God.

Scripture gives us what we need unto salvation.
Show me where that is in the Word of God, Simon. I don’t think you can because it’s not there.
 
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