holy father?

[myfavoritmartin]

It is quite obvious that you are not here to inquire or learn, but only to be contentious. You are like the various moslems who infest these forums peddling the same tiresome protestations, trying to explain nonsense and justify heresy. I seriously doubt that your faulty protestant point of view is going to have any impact on these Catholics who have been trying so hard to enlighten you, save to be annoyed at having to cover the ground that we have covered so many times before. Peace.

SO I question **your actions which contradict Christs’ actual words **and you compare me with a MOSLEM???

your a peach!

 

[MariaG]

I’ve not heard what you guys thought Christ was preaching about in Matt 23:
???

I am trying to get this strait, instead of Jesus just saying I want unity, HE spoke in code instead using the term “call no man Father”

Not code. Not if you understood things with scripture as a whole. Either the other scriptures that refer to Father Abraham, and Paul referring to himself as a spiritual father are in error, or you must misunderstand what Jesus was saying. It is really quite simple. Either you believe all of scripture is inspired, that there is a place for calling our TRUE spiritual fathers, father as scripture does, or those writings contradict Jesus and you can no longer trust the Holy Scriptures.

Since I know that scripture does not contradict itself, your understanding must be in error. I pray that someday God will give you enough faith in ALL of His Holy Word to overcome your error.

God bless,
Maria

 

[myfavoritmartin]

That you should do as your conscience dictates. You said you had a firm conviction about it, so I am saying you should follow it. If it scandalizes you to give 'double honor" to the teacher or elder, then refrain.

Thanks for clarifying, I do hold strong to my convictions…

It was more than a suggestion. You are telling your brothers and sisters that they are wrong in holding to the Apostolic Traditions as they have been handed down to us.

No I am telling brothers and sisters that Christ words are this “Call no man Father” for one in heaven is your father.

All I am asking is that you refrain from reviling us because we see things differently. Do what you believe is right for you, and leave the rest to God.

I am suggesting reading Christ words with an open heart. My whole purpose for posting in this specific thread.

 

[hosemonkey]

SO I question **your actions which contradict Christs’ actual words **and you compare me with a MOSLEM???

your a peach!

I think that you are a little peachy yourself.
Yes, you are like the moslems who inflict themselves on these forums. They belabor the same points over and over ad nauseaum, in the belief that repetition will somehow add credibility to their arguments. Then, if proven wrong, they will either demand “proof” or quickly derail the topic, like you do. You just made my ignore list.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Not code. Not if you understood things with scripture as a whole. Either the other scriptures that refer to Father Abraham, and Paul referring to himself as a spiritual father are in error, or you must misunderstand what Jesus was saying. It is really quite simple. Either you believe all of scripture is inspired, that there is a place for calling our TRUE spiritual fathers, father as scripture does, or those writings contradict Jesus and you can no longer trust the Holy Scriptures.

Since I know that scripture does not contradict itself, your understanding must be in error. I pray that someday God will give you enough faith in ALL of His Holy Word to overcome your error.

God bless,
Maria

Actually it is your interpretation of Paul and Abrahams verses…These aren’t about the **vain titles **of Father rather they are about spiritual fatherhood.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

You just made my ignore list.

Fine, your minimal amount of constructive (name removed by moderator)ut won’t be missed.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

I pray that someday God will give you enough faith in ALL of His Holy Word to overcome your error.

God bless,
Maria

I’ve faith unto salvation my friend. I’D SAY THAT’S FAITH ENOUGH.

 

[MariaG]

Actually it is your interpretation of Paul and Abrahams verses…These aren’t about the **vain titles **of Father rather they are about spiritual fatherhood.

And the term Father as applied to priest is about spiritual fatherhood. This is consistent with scripture that calls those who are our spiritual fathers, father.

Now I do believe you have a point that there are priests who may be unworthy of the spiritual title of Father, for they fail to carry out that job, but that would up to each individual to follow their own conscience if a priest was no longer a spiritual father, and to no longer call them “father”.

But to say that Jesus literally meant “call no man father” clearly contradicts scripture. It means that either Paul was wrong, or you are. I do not believe Paul was wrong.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[hosemonkey]

Oh, I’m not leaving, just ignoring you.

 

[MariaG]

I’ve faith unto salvation my friend. I’D SAY THAT’S FAITH ENOUGH.

But clearly you do not trust all of scripture or you would never interpret Christ’s word’s as you do.

Father Abraham. There is even a great song I learned in the Protestant churches on that one. Clearly, you do not place faith in all of scripture, but only in your selective interpretation of selct scripture ignoring that which does not fit your views.

 

[mercygate]

Yes good one mercy…

“My father, my father, the chariots of Israel and its horsemen!”
Since at this point they were previously seperated I’d venture to say he may not have been calling to elijah rather crying out of fright and loneliness.
But yeah it is one case you could argue out of the whole bible where someone is addressed directly as father and it is not addressed to our Father in heaven.

And here again in 2 Kings 13:14 Joash to Elisha:

Now when Elisha had fallen sick with the illness of which he was to die, Joash king of Israel went down to him, and wept before him, crying, "My father, my father! The chariots of Israel and its horsemen!"

 

[mercygate]

Yes good one mercy…

“My father, my father, the chariots of Israel and its horsemen!”
Since at this point they were previously seperated I’d venture to say he may not have been calling to elijah rather crying out of fright and loneliness.

In my Bible Elisha has been sticking to father Elijah like glue despite Elijah’s efforts to leave Elisha behind.

But yeah it is one case you could argue out of the whole bible where someone is addressed directly as father and it is not addressed to our Father in heaven.

 

[guanophore]

SO I question **your actions which contradict Christs’ actual words **and you compare me with a MOSLEM???

your a peach!

I thought hosemonkey was a little harsh, and although I have perceived gross disrespect in some of your posts, I am not yet convinced that you do not want to learn.

Our actions do not contradict Christ’s words. They contradict your understanding of His words, because you understanding of them is not informed by the Sacred Apostolic teaching from which those words were written down. To the extent that you reject 'God’s revelation in favor of your own interpretation, you are like a Muslim. There is more than one Muslim on this board who rejects the basic teachings of the gospel of Christ, just as you do. So you share that in common.

I am telling brothers and sisters that Christ words are this “Call no man Father” for one in heaven is your father.

Has it not occurred to you that your brothers and sisters are well acquainted with these words? And that it might seem the least little bit arrogant of you, without the benefit of Sacred Traditions, or being informed by the early church fathers, to come in here and reprimand us? Who do you think you are?

I am suggesting reading Christ words with an open heart. My whole purpose for posting in this specific thread.

You are assuming, of course, that we are not. This is a disrespectful assumption from which to start. You are assuming that, since we do not interpret the words in the same way that you do, that we are somehow having hardness of heart. This is very judgemental of you, since you cannot see into any of our hearts. Do you feel that you have been sent by God to weigh us in the balance, and find us wanting? Are you one of the angels of the apocalypse?
I am suggesting reading Christ words with an open heart. My whole purpose for posting in this specific thread.

 

[estesbob]

Actually it is your interpretation of Paul and Abrahams verses…These aren’t about the **vain titles **of Father rather they are about spiritual fatherhood.

Oh-so you get to interpert Scripture but no one else can? Perfect example of why Sola Sciptura is a false doctrine. Instead of looking for the Truth as passed down thorugh the ages by Christ’s Church you want to enage in verse wars. Evidently not only is Scripture infalllibe but you are to.

 

[estesbob]

Not code. Not if you understood things with scripture as a whole. Either the other scriptures that refer to Father Abraham, and Paul referring to himself as a spiritual father are in error, or you must misunderstand what Jesus was saying. It is really quite simple. Either you believe all of scripture is inspired, that there is a place for calling our TRUE spiritual fathers, father as scripture does, or those writings contradict Jesus and you can no longer trust the Holy Scriptures.

Since I know that scripture does not contradict itself, your understanding must be in error. I pray that someday God will give you enough faith in ALL of His Holy Word to overcome your error.

God bless,
Maria

Basically it appears that every major personage in the old and new testament is going to hell because they used the term Father for someone other than God. I am confused by this however as since if we are saved by faith alone how can calling someone Father imperil our salvation ?

Is it Saved by Faith and alone unless you call a man father?Guess there will be a mass exodus to hell given last Simnday was “Fathers day”

 

[JoeyWarren]

Oh-so you get to interpert Scripture but no one else can? Perfect example of why Sola Sciptura is a false doctrine. Instead of looking for the Truth as passed down thorugh the ages by Christ’s Church you want to enage in verse wars. Evidently not only is Scripture infalllibe but you are to.

All hail and praise is given to the infallible and impeccable Simon aka MyFavoriteMartin:bowdown: :bowdown2: :extrahappy:

 

[JoeyWarren]

Basically it appears that every major personage in the old and new testament is going to hell because they used the term Father for someone other than God. I am confused by this however as since if we are saved by faith alone how can calling someone Father imperil our salvation ?

Is it Saved by Faith and alone unless you call a man father? Guess there will be a mass exodus to hell given last Simnday was "Fathers day"

:bigyikes: :hypno:

 

[hosemonkey]

All hail and praise is given to the infallible and impeccable Simon aka MyFavoriteMartin:bowdown: :bowdown2: :extrahappy:

Have’nt you guys ever played “Simon Says”? Simon is living proof of the old “Every man his own Pope” and is the reason for the 20,000+ protestant denominations. I am sure that if Simon is dissatisfied with his “Pastor’s” interpretation of Scripture, he can simply move to a more congenial church or (drum roll) Start his own! Sorry for using the word “pastor” Simon, the word means “Shepherd” in Latin and is an honorific title, my mistake, sorry. Anyhow, I’m sorry to seem harsh in my impatience with you, but we Catholics have been trying to explain this to protestants for SUCH a long time and we sometimes grow vexed. I’ll just bite my lips and observe.

 

[revmarty]

Hello there folks this is my First time on this site so please be nice. in reading this interesting blog I have noticed that you have gone off track, Gardian1 asked a question as to the Pope and calling him “Holy Father”

Just quickly to myfavouritmartin you seem to be a Charismatic, and that is fine as I am one myself, However you don’t have to prove yourself to be right and the others wrong, if you note what Gardian1 first said in response to your message and I quote “you seem to be a vindictive person who is here to cause problems” you have possibly given a poor representation of yourself.
my Dad once said "some people love to tell the truth, others, tell the truth in love. anyhow i also digress,
To Gardian 1, it is obvious you are in search of the truth, you have been raised a protestant and looked into Islam, now Catholicism, you are on a personal Journey. keep this in mind Jesus said, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

it is Good to question the Religions of this world and their belief systems and dogma, because we get it wrong sometimes, the Pope is a man just as you and I are men, he has given himself to a strict discipline and lifestyle however according to the Bible he is no more exceptable to God than you or I, If you confess Jesus as Lord of your life, you to are Holy infact you are part of a Royal preisthood. So to honor the Pope for his Discipline is a good thing to elevate him to a position equal to Jesus is wrong, we do this when we pray to him or ask him to stand between God and mankind. Jesus said when pray say this “our Father who is in Heaven” the best thing you can do is pick up your Bible and begin to read it, unlike the Koran the Bible has an old covenant and a New Covenant, God made a new agreement with mankind in the new testament, Jesus removed the need for human intervention when it comes to you and God, you no longer need anyone to approach God on your behalf, Jesus said "no one comes to the father (God) but through me (Jesus) " you can go directly to the throne of God and he will listen to you. the only other thing is this John.14:26 say’s “But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things” man can encourage, disciple and help you but the Holy Spirit Teaches you.

May God direct you on your pursuit of the Truth,

Marty

 

[hosemonkey]

If this is your first time on this site and you want us to be “nice” then the first thing that you must do is to get your facts straight. First, no Catholic prays to the Pope or regards him as equal to Jesus. Where did you get that information? The Holy Father is the successor of Saint Peter, whom Jesus himself commissioned to lead His Church.He is a man, but a man set apart. One of his titles is “Servant of the servants of God.” Catholics believe in “Apostolic Succession” which means that the powers conferred upon the Apostles at Pentecost have been passed down to their successors ie:
The Holy Father, the bishops and the priests of the Church. They are impowered by Jesus Christ Himself, to repeat the sacrifice of Calvary(the Mass) and to forgive sins in the name of Jesus Christ Himself. Surely, you may go to Jesus yourself, but Jesus Himself instituted the Sacrament of Penance (confession) Himself.