Holy Trinity

[Static]

Is the Holy Trinity mentioned in the Old Testament?

I’ll add Gen 3:22, along with the other plural forms of God already given in this thread.

How about *Ex 3 *? In view of Heb 10:1, Col 2:17we are told about types that foreshadow the reality that is in Christ, are we not ?
In Exodus we have God, the flame of fire ( Holy Spirit ) & Moses a type of Christ sent to save His people, do we not ??? Correct me, pleeeeeeez, if I am stretching this a bit !

Is 6:3 as in Rev 4:8 Holy is mentioned 3 times pertaining to God, who was, who is & who is to come.

Num 6:23-27 passing on a blessing in the name of the Lord as in Mt 28:19 when we are baptized.

May God Bless, Static ( 1 Tim 1:15 )

 

[inJESUS]

Proverbs 8:22-30 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth: When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep: When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth: Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him…

John 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Matthew 11:16-19//Luke 7:31-2 To what, then, can I compare the people of this generation? What are they like? They are like children sitting in the marketplace and calling out to each other: "‘We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not cry.’“For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, 'He has a demon. 'The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and “sinners.”’ But wisdom is proved right by all her children.”

Proverbs 1:24-28 Wisdom calls aloud in the street, she raises her voice in the public squares; at the head of the noisy streets she cries out, in the gateways of the city she makes her speech: "How long will you simple ones love your simple ways? How long will mockers delight in mockery and fools hate knowledge? If you had responded to my rebuke, I would have poured out my heart to you and made my thoughts known to you. But since you rejected me when I called and no one gave heed when I stretched out my hand, since you ignored all my advice and would not accept my rebuke, I in turn will laugh at your disaster; I will mock when calamity overtakes you-- when calamity overtakes you like a storm, when disaster sweeps over you like a whirlwind, when distress and trouble overwhelm you. "Then they will call to me but I will not answer; they will look for me but will not find me.

 

[inJESUS]

Us unrefuttably does not include angels?

scriptures nowhere say that angels are co-creators. But scriptures say everything is created by the Father, His Logos and His Spirit

By the word of the Lord were the heavens made, their starry host by the breath [ruah ] of his mouth." Psalm 33:6

“The Spirit [ruah ] of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life.” Job 33:4

 

[teachccd]

Poor paul and the rest of the apostles who know not the doctrine as it is defined today.

They believe in God and the Lord Jesus Christ…

be careful to assume Trinity is essential when the very nature of Christ is if you believe in Me, you believe in the Father also and have seen Him.

Jesus’ message wasn’t you must get everything about the Godhead right, It was believe in Me that you might have life…

There is only life in the Son of God, God our Father incarnate… that is truth and I’m sticking to it lol.

If you do not hold to the Trinitarian dogma you are not Christian. Paul, as well as the other Apostles, heard Jesus claim His divinity and though it was not defined as Trinity, they still knew that He was the Son of God. John made this very clear in His account of the Gospel. If you do not believe in the Trinity you are not Christian…And I am sticking to that!!!

 

[teachccd]

I escape the Holy Trinity but Worship the Father, SOn, and Holy Ghost … dogmas don’t define God, God’s WOrd defines God…

What??

 

[dmar198]

Is the Holy Trinity mentioned in the Old Testament? Do all Christian religions believe in the Holy Trinity as Catholics do?

Isaiah 63:8-10 -

He said, “Surely they are my people,
sons who will not be false to me”;
and so he became their Savior.

In all their distress he too was distressed,
and the angel of his presence saved them.
In his love and mercy he redeemed them;
he lifted them up and carried them
all the days of old.

Yet they rebelled
and grieved his Holy Spirit.
So he turned and became their enemy
and he himself fought against them.

Isaiah 11:1-2 -

Then a shoot will spring from the stem of Jesse, And a branch from his roots will bear fruit. And the Spirit of the LORD will rest on Him, The spirit of wisdom and understanding, The spirit of counsel and strength, The spirit of knowledge and the fear of the LORD.

Isaiah 42:1 -

"Behold, My Servant, whom I uphold; My chosen one in whom My soul delights. I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the nations.

Isaiah 48:16 -

“Come near to Me, listen to this: From the first I have not spoken in secret, From the time it took place, I was there. And now the Lord GOD has sent Me, and His Spirit.”

Isaiah 61:1 -

The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon Me, Because the LORD has anointed Me [note: “Messiah” literally means “Anointed one”] To bring good news to the afflicted; He has sent Me to bind up the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to captives, And freedom to prisoners;

AND THESE ARE JUST THE EXAMPLES FROM ISAIAH!

 

[jcrichton]

I escape the Holy Trinity but Worship the Father, SOn, and Holy Ghost … dogmas don’t define God, God’s WOrd defines God…

I,even I am the Lord and beside Me there is no other Saviour

You as well as all human beings were created in the image and likeness of God; it is your choice to believe or not believe. If you think it wrong then just step off the bus. If you simply do not understand it then ask for clarification.

You cannot go to the Son unless the Father sends you to Him and it is only through the Holy Spirit that God’s Will is made known!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Holland]

You cannot go to the Son unless the Father sends you to Him and it is only through the Holy Spirit that God’s Will is made known!

Gosh, that’s good. I’m going to make a copy of it and stick it in my pocket so I can remember.

 

[jcrichton]

You cannot go to the Son unless the Father sends you to Him and it is only through the Holy Spirit that God’s Will is made known!

Gosh, that’s good. I’m going to make a copy of it and stick it in my pocket so I can remember.

I used several passages of the Holy Scriptures… the though comes from St. Matthew 11:27, St. John 6:44, and 1 Corinthians 12:3.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[upciguy26]

scriptures nowhere say that angels are co-creators. But scriptures say everything is created by the Father, His Logos and His Spirit

By the word of the Lord were the heavens made, their starry host by the breath [ruah ] of his mouth." Psalm 33:6

“The Spirit [ruah ] of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life.” Job 33:4

That has nothing to do with the us who went and confounded the languages… Angels communed with people several times in the scripture along with God present (Abraham anyone?).

God spoke things into existence… his Word is his Logos… by his Word were all things made… not God making the world by someone else… God making the world by His WOrd, his Logos, part of his own being… not another being…

 

[upciguy26]

You cannot go to the Son unless the Father sends you to Him and it is only through the Holy Spirit that God’s Will is made known!

Gosh, that’s good. I’m going to make a copy of it and stick it in my pocket so I can remember.

Thus summing up all the ways God works… as a Father, through his Son, and by the Holy SPirit…

All instruments of his being…

God our Father, complete, one Spirit, One God, manifested in the person of our Lord Jesus Christ

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

God spoke things into existence… his Word is his Logos… by his Word were all things made… not God making the world by someone else… God making the world by His WOrd, his Logos, part of his own being… not another being…

Gen 1:2 And the earth was void and empty, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God moved over the waters.

Doesn’t look like he was speaking in Genesis 1:2 to me.

And don’t confuse what Catholics say. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three divine persons in one God. The Trinity if you will.

May the peace of the Lord be with you,
Prodigal Son1

 

[upciguy26]

Gen 1:2 And the earth was void and empty, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God moved over the waters.

Doesn’t look like he was speaking in Genesis 1:2 to me.

And don’t confuse what Catholics say. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three divine persons in one God. The Trinity if you will.

May the peace of the Lord be with you,
Prodigal Son1

He wasn’t creating anything in that verse.

ANd God said, Let there be light…

And God said, let

And God said…

This list goes on and on.

Yes I know what the Trinity is.

But what God is and what he is defined as can sometimes be confusing.

Therefore by his own being made he the worlds and through his own divine nature being incarnated in human flesh as the Son, redeemed us by that precious blood and continually by his Spirit he sanctifies and draws people to repentance, revelation, and restoration.

 

[rcjones]

Is the Holy Trinity mentioned in the Old Testament?

The shadows speak more clearly of the Trinity than the literal-historical.

Together Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob represent the Trinity. Abraham is the Father who offered his son. Issac is the son who was offered as a sacrifice. He did not get the blessing to be fruitful. Jacob is the one who was fruitful.

Abraham, his servant and Isaac also represent the Trinty. (The servant gathered the bride).

There is also an undeniable pattern of three represented in the New Testament as “hearing, seeing, and walking”. When God spoke to Israel from the mountain they refused to hear. When he showed them the law, they refused to see, and when he lived among them as the pillar, they refused to walk.

He revealed Himself to all men (made Himself manifest) and we refuse to hear. All creation testifies and we refuse to see. God dwells among us and we refuse to walk.

The Father speaks, the Son shows, and the Spirit gives life. This pattern is everywhere in the OT.

We also have the testimonies of the patriarchs (Father) and of Israel (called the son of God) and of the life of Christ (where the Spirit bears testimony of his birth, baptist, etc.)

In Genesis 1, God speaks, The son (firmament, life and light) works, and the Spirit gives life as stuff springs up.

The three friends of Job represent God who is three in heaven. Job represent the one who is three on earth, and they are one, which is why the candle has seven and at the end of Job there were seven burnt offering to reconcile Job and his friends. (And why he cries “I am innocent, why won’t you hear my defense?”)

Correlating the three women at the well you have Abraham (Father) who chooses the bride for his son, Jacob (Son) who woos, or calls his own bride, and the Holy Spirit who gathers the woman to the church at Sychar.

Moses was God (Father) to Pharaoh, Aaron was his mouthpiece (Son) and Joshua was “filled with the spirit”.

 

[jpy15026]

Us unrefuttably does not include angels?

Genesis 11:9
9 That is why it was called Babel, because there the LORD confused the speech of all the world. It was from that place that he scattered them all over the earth.

.

 

[upciguy26]

Genesis 11:9
9 That is why it was called Babel, because there the LORD confused the speech of all the world. It was from that place that he scattered them all over the earth.

.

Of course it was the LORD who did it… doesn’t mean angels weren’t present…

also look at this phrase…

It was from that place that HE scattered them all over the earth…

IF God is an US… IT would say from that place THEY scattered them

DO you serve a GOd that contradicts himself (theirself)?

Isaiah 43:11 (Whole Chapter)
I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Isaiah 44:6 (Whole Chapter)
Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Isaiah 44:8 (Whole Chapter)
Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Isaiah 45:5 (Whole Chapter)
I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

Isaiah 45:6 (Whole Chapter)
That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

Isaiah 45:21 (Whole Chapter)
Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

Hosea 13:4 (Whole Chapter)
Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me

This God speaks of himself as singular

 

[upciguy26]

Is the Holy Trinity mentioned in the Old Testament? Do all Christian religions believe in the Holy Trinity as Catholics do?

Nope, God speaks of himself this way in the Old Testament

Isaiah 43:11 (Whole Chapter)
I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Isaiah 44:6 (Whole Chapter)
Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Isaiah 44:8 (Whole Chapter)
Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Isaiah 45:5 (Whole Chapter)
I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

Isaiah 45:6 (Whole Chapter)
That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

Isaiah 45:21 (Whole Chapter)
Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

Hosea 13:4 (Whole Chapter)
Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me

 

[teachccd]

Nope, God speaks of himself this way in the Old Testament

Isaiah 43:11 (Whole Chapter)
I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Isaiah 44:6 (Whole Chapter)
Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Isaiah 44:8 (Whole Chapter)
Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Isaiah 45:5 (Whole Chapter)
I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

Isaiah 45:6 (Whole Chapter)
That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

Isaiah 45:21 (Whole Chapter)
Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

Hosea 13:4 (Whole Chapter)
Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me

All of your references show that God is emphasizing that He and only He is God. He is not revealing His essence as Trinity and your quotes above do not undermine that essence. While only God saves, He does not change His mind in the New Testament when He sends us Jesus as our savior. Yes, there is even now no God beside Himself who is eternally triune. God could NEVER ever (since God is not in time) speak of Himself in any way that would allow Himself to change His eternal essence as Trinity. So while your quotes above may have been interpreted as God being alone, we know through God’s fullest revelation in Christ that He is one God in three distinct Persons. This has been revealed through Christ and has been taught by the Church for almost 2000 years.

All of those scripture verses are still as pertinent today as they were then. Jesus did not come to change who God is. Quite the contrary. He came to show us who God is and He Himself claims divinity…teachccd

 

[jcrichton]

…IF God is an US… This God speaks of himself as singular

Hi, upciguy!

(Due to site’s limits some text has been removed from the passages cited.)

It is difficult, if not impossible, to prove anything to anyone who refuses to believe. I propose to you that the following Scriptures attest that Yahweh God has chosen to reveal Himself in the three Divine Persons of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit:

…baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. (Mt 28:19)

…he shall baptize you in the Holy Ghost and fire. (Mt 3:11)

29 …John saw Jesus coming to him; and he saith: Behold the Lamb of God… 32 And John gave testimony, saying: I saw the Spirit coming down, as a dove from heaven; and he remained upon him. 33 And I knew him not: but he who sent me to baptize with water said to me: He upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending and remaining upon him, he it is that baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. 34 And I saw: and I gave testimony that this is the Son of God. (Jn 1:29-34)

16 And Jesus being baptized, forthwith came out of the water: and lo, the heavens were opened to him: and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him. 17 And behold a voice from heaven saying: This is my beloved Son… (Mt 3:16-17)

25 Amen, amen, I say unto you, that the hour cometh, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God… 26 For as the Father hath life in himself, so he hath given to the Son also to have life in himself. 27 And he hath given him power to do judgment, because he is the Son of man… for the hour cometh wherein all that are in the graves shall hear the voice of the Son of God… my judgment is just: because I seek not my own will. but the will of him that sent me. 31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. 32 There is another that beareth witness of me: and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true… 36 But I have a greater testimony than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to perfect, the works themselves which I do, give testimony of me, that the Father hath sent me. 37 And the Father himself who hath sent me hath given testimony of me: neither have you heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. 38 And you have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him you believe not. 39 Search the scriptures: for you think in them to have life everlasting. And the same are they that give testimony of me. (Jn 5:25-39)

…it is expedient to you that I go. For if I go not, the Paraclete will not come to you: but if I go, I will send him to you. (Jn 16:7)

16 And I will ask the Father: and he shall give you another Paraclete, that he may abide with you for ever: 17 The spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, nor knoweth him. But you shall know him; because he shall abide with you and shall be in you. 23 …If any one love me, he will keep my word. And my Father will love him and we will come to him and will make our abode with him. (Jn 14:16-17, 23)

And the tempter coming said to him: If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. (Mt 4:3)

…What have I to do with thee, Jesus the Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God that thou torment me not. (Mk 5:7)

28 …there met him two that were possessed with devils, coming out of the sepulchres, exceeding fierce, so that none could pass by that way. 29 And behold they cried out, saying: What have we to do with thee, Jesus Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time? (Mt 8:28-29)

23 And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out, 24 Saying: What have we to do with thee, Jesus of Nazareth? Art thou come to destroy us? I know who thou art, the Holy One of God. 25 And Jesus threatened him, saying: Speak no more, and go out of the man. (Mk 1:23-25)

22 Then was offered to him one possessed with a devil, blind and dumb: and he healed him, so that he spoke and saw. 23 And all the multitudes were amazed, and said: Is not this the son of David? 24 But the Pharisees hearing it, said: This man casteth not out devils but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils. 25 And Jesus knowing their thoughts, said to them: Every kingdom divided against itself shall be made desolate: and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand. 26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself: how then shall his kingdom stand? 27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? Therefore they shall be your judges. 28 But if I by the Spirit of God cast out devils, then is the kingdom of God come upon you. 29 Or how can any one enter into the house of the strong, and rifle his goods, unless he first bind the strong? and then he will rifle his house. 30 He that is not with me, is against me: and he that gathereth not with me, scattereth. 31 Therefore I say to you: Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but the blasphemy of the Spirit shall not be forgiven. 32 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him neither in this world, nor in the world to come. (Mt 12:22-32)

For prophecy came not by the will of man at any time: but the holy men of God spoke, inspired by the Holy Ghost. (2 Pt 1:21)

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[upciguy26]

All of these can fit either. However if God said he was a ME… then thats what he is.

Jesus is being baptized (The Son) and the Father’s voice is speaking from heaven… and the Holy Ghost is appearing in the form of a Dove. All at one time. You would think that this proves 3 separate person. However God is a Spirit (John 4:24) and a HIM/ME (Isaiah 43:11)…

So to fit into what God is, God speaks from heaven, God’s deity is within his Son (John 14:6) and God’s Spirit is his Spirit (The HOly Ghost)

All three different manifestations of God… one a voice from heaven, one deity within the Son standing in the water… and one in the form of a dove as the Holy Ghost…

No scripture disproves God to be the same being/person that displays in three distinct ways at the same time.

Therefore that does not mean God, his Son, and His Spirit are three different persons. SInce God said… beside ME there is no Saviour (Is. 43:11)… the Father, Word, and Spirit is a ME…

Since the Father, Word, and Spirit are all the same God… a ME… a SPIRIT (John 4:24)

The person of the SON therefore comes from his humanity which coupled with Jesus’ deity as the WORD… inseparable