Home-schooled girl fights for band spot

[ChrisR246]

auppie:

1. Most high school bands are way underfunded and the students and parents are expected to participate in most, if not all, fundraising activities. Our booster group raises over $50,000/yr. to fund the band and its activities, including parade entry fees–the teacher receives from the government supported school about $3,500/yr. to do the same. So some students and parents may be very resentful to this girl fighting for the band spot if she were to receive it, as she didn’t EARN her spot.
2. How would one determine where this girl is placed in the band line up? The kids participating in school bands have worked hard for many years. Students compete against each other throughout the school year for that prized position of “first chair”. Would she fall right into that place? Would this discourage students who worked hard? Would this cause students to decide not to participate in band ever again? It certainly could. And if the particpant numbers decline, then there possibly could be no more music program.

I don’t recall anyone saying she would not have to compete for the spot or not have to participate in the fundraising. But it’s a long thread and I may have missed it. She simply wants to be allowed to participate. She is not even allowed to try out.

auppie:

1. At band activities (all–during summer and school), the school pays for liability insurance to cover its students . Being as this girl is not a student, who is liable if she is injured? In this day and age of sue-happy people, the school has to protect all its interests. If it (the school) were to be engaged in a lawsuit, who would benefit? Certainly not the school. The entire school and the school district would lose.

And why can’t the insurance policy be changed to include her or others the school chooses to admit to limited activities? And in case you forgot, the shcool pays for the insurance, in part, with the money from this girl’s parents’ property taxes.

auppie:

There are more considerations than “taxpayer dollars” to be looked at with this issue, of whether or not this girl should be allowed to participate.

Apparently not. The money you are concerned about the school losing in a hypothetical suit would come from taxpayer dollars.

 

[auppie]

ChrisR246:

I don’t recall anyone saying she would not have to compete for the spot or not have to participate in the fundraising. But it’s a long thread and I may have missed it. She simply wants to be allowed to participate. She is not even allowed to try out.

I’m not saying anyone said anything of the sort, however I think I saw where her band teacher said she is first chair. It may be that I misinterpreted the post. My point was that for all these students who worked under a particular teacher, and probably have a parade routine, which this girl doesn’t know, nor does she know what music pieces they are plaing…how may allowances are to be made for one person? Students spend countless hours learning particular pieces of music, particular marching routines. How is she supposed to learn all this from just showing up at the parade site?

Band is a “class”, taught by a teacher, not an extracurricular activity. While required and non-required performances are performed outside of school, it is still a “class” performance. The students are graded on their performance. This girl has not participated in this class to learn how this teacher wants his students to perform. This is something one can learn in just a couple of days.

Football is an extracurricular activity; not a class.

There are also considerations for the right size and availability of uniform and shoes.

Try-outs for band are generally conducted in the spring for the following school year. Hasn’t she already missed her opportunity to “try-out”?

Insurance is also covered by booster monies, as ours was. Our booster organization is a private non-profit group…why should such a group be required to pay for a non-student when this non-student hasn’t participated in any band activity?

No one is arguing where the school receives its funding. However, once it is given to the schools, the schools use it to provide for the education and safety of its students…not non-students.

To get a separate rider on an insurance policy for one person who is not a student of that school takes time away from the school official to make such arrangements or from the booster board member who should be tending to other matters as well; the rider itself could cost a considerable amount of money for just one person.

Ponder this: Anyone who works within the City and County of Denver “pays” a tax for the privelege to “work” there. That tax is used for garbage collection for the citizens of the City and County of Denver. The Denver worker who lives in one of the many suburbs has to pay this tax for a service that does not benefit that person at all. While not a perfect example, isn’t it that far off. Payment is made for a service that doesn’t benefit the taxpayer.

As for the hypothetical lawsuit, you are not totally correct in that any monies paid out would come from just taxpayer money…many booster groups are involved with activities such as these, and they are non-profit groups. They would also be held accountable…people these days list many defendants to lawsuits because one of them may be forced to hand over the money. Booster groups work very hard to earn every dollar they have, and to have it lost in hypothetical lawsuit is very sad.

No I didn’t forget that the money comes from taxpayers, but who wins? Maybe the girl wanting the spot in the band. Certainly not the taxpayers. Keep in mind the taxpayers aren’t just the parents of the homeschooled girl. So if the girl does not play with the band and say a lawsuit ensues, does this make a justifiable reason to use taxpayer money?

While many of you are concerned with the monies contributed by taxpayers, no one else seems to be concerned how much of a hardship it would be on the current school band students, its teacher(s), and its booster groups, etc.

Again, this issue isn’t just about the money. Its about how this home-schooled girl thinks that just because her parents pay taxes, she is entitled to join an established group with no experience of any kind with this band–she hasn’t practiced marching or music.

Keep in mind that a lot of these performances, even parades, are judged, and placement is awarded…something high school bands take very very seriously. Is this homeschooled girl capable of performing to the standards the teacher/drum major expects of his students?

 

[ChrisR246]

however I think I saw where her band teacher said she is first chair.

Yes. I took it to mean that she is in a (private) band class and is first chair there.

My point was that for all these students who worked under a particular teacher, and probably have a parade routine, which this girl doesn’t know, nor does she know what music pieces they are plaing…how may allowances are to be made for one person?

She’s in 8th grade going into 9th. Apparently other 8th graders who will be attending the high school are alloowed to march. Admittedly, I’ve never been in band, but how do any of the other 8th graders being allowed to march know the routine?

Band is a “class”, taught by a teacher, not an extracurricular activity.

Really, because the article says

Beatrice High School officials told Tiffany last month that she would not be able to participate in band next year as a ninth-grader. The school bars home-school students from being in activities regulated by the Nebraska School Activities Association.

To me it sounds like she’s being kept out specifically because it is an extracurricular activity.

Ponder this: Anyone who works within the City and County of Denver “pays” a tax for the privelege to “work” there. That tax is used for garbage collection for the citizens of the City and County of Denver. The Denver worker who lives in one of the many suburbs has to pay this tax for a service that does not benefit that person at all. While not a perfect example, isn’t it that far off. Payment is made for a service that doesn’t benefit the taxpayer.

Do you assume I agree with that tax?

Keep in mind the taxpayers aren’t just the parents of the homeschooled girl.

No, there are the parents of other home schooled kids, the parents of kids who go to private and parochial schools, people without kids, etc etc.

While many of you are concerned with the monies contributed by taxpayers, no one else seems to be concerned how much of a hardship it would be on the current school band students, its teacher(s), and its booster groups, etc.

How is it hard on the band students? If the girl tries out and gets a spot, despite all the things you’ve listed that are working against her, then she must be darn good. The other kids will benefit from her being there. How is it hard on the teacher? PArticualrly since it seems to be an extracurricular activity? The booster? How do you know these parents would not also join the boosters and be the best rootin tootin money raisin boosters you’ve ever seen?

Again, this issue isn’t just about the money. Its about how this home-schooled girl thinks that just because her parents pay taxes, she is entitled to join an established group with no experience of any kind with this band–she hasn’t practiced marching or music.

Again, no one says she is insisting on getting a spot without having to try out and keep up the same standards as everyone esle. She just wants the opportunity to try.

Is this homeschooled girl capable of performing to the standards the teacher/drum major expects of his students?

We won’t know until the let her try out, will we?

 

[auppie]

ChrisR246, I appreciate your comments. I am hoping that no one is taking my statements as concrete…I’m just stating things how we do them, and offering my perspective of having a public school student participating in band. I certainly enjoy a great debate

She’s in 8th grade going into 9th. Apparently other 8th graders who will be attending the high school are alloowed to march. Admittedly, I’ve never been in band, but how do any of the other 8th graders being allowed to march know the routine?

In our area, the incoming freshmen are part of the high school (grades 9-12) band the minute school is out. We have several band camps and practices throughout the summer months practicing music and routines, be it parade or competition.

an extracurricular activity.

As I previously mentioned, I’m only going by how our school does it…band is a class and the students are required to participate in the band camps and practices and competitions/parades even during the summer. They are graded accordingly.

Please don’t forget to include those taxpayers/parents whose students do attend public schools.

Tryouts are probably over (depending on when that school let out ). Are exceptions supposed to be made for one

just because her parent’s taxes help fund this particular school?

Using my previous example with the City and County of Denver, if I worked in Denver, and lived in the suburbs, should I be able to take my garbage into Denver for its disposal simply because by working in Denver, I would be paying for garbage removal? Or if I told Denver to come pick up my garbage because I pay for removal?

It’s hard on the students because they have already reached a level of learning in their routine and music, and anyone new would have to start at the beginning. The incoming freshmen seem to have the hardest time learning this simply because it is new and not something they learned in middle school.

It’s hard on the teacher, because it is taking time away from students who will be with him all year.

Here, our boosters pay for the music for our students.

Don’t know that her parents wouldn’t be great fundraisers or bad fundraisers. Here, band is a class, not an extracurricular activity. You want to be in band, you perform, or you fail.

Again, I’m guessing the time for tryouts is over, and there isn’t enough time to prepare her for the music and routine.

 

[ChrisR246]

auppie:

ChrisR246, I appreciate your comments. I am hoping that no one is taking my statements as concrete…I’m just stating things how we do them, and offering my perspective of having a public school student participating in band. I certainly enjoy a great debate

auppie:

Again, I’m guessing the time for tryouts is over, and there isn’t enough time to prepare her for the music and routine.

I’ll avoid the rest of it, because I think this one part addresses most of the disagreement - I get the impression that, if there was a try out for 8th graders she was prevented from trying out, because she knew going to the parade that she would probably be prevented from marching. But I might misunderstand. I don’t get the impression she wants any special treatment, just the same.

 

[auppie]

I’ll avoid the rest of it, because I think this one part addresses most of the disagreement - I get the impression that, if there was a try out for 8th graders she was prevented from trying out, because she knew going to the parade that she would probably be prevented from marching. But I might misunderstand. I don’t get the impression she wants any special treatment, just the same.
[/quote]

And if there weren’t tryouts? What then? The way ours goes, is that the kids in 8th grade band in the public schools have to register what classes they want to take in 9th grade…including band. They are automatically enrolled in the class…tryouts at our school is for the “chair” positions.

I see it as Tiffany does want special treatment because of her parents taxpayer dollars. I could be misinterpreting it too, but, as I’m sure you are aware, the media can put any spin on it any way they want to invoke a certain feeling/reaction!

 

[Cactus]

It seems to me that she would be a good band member. There’s always room for one more in any band. I would imagine that her parents, being so involved with her education, would be good band parents (translate “fund-raisers”). The sticky point is the academic eligibility for extracurricular activities. Participants in bands, etc. have to be passing their classes. I’m sure the girl is doing fine in her academic work, but how is that to be presented to all the aducation bubble-heads who make these determinations? I think the experience of being in a good high school band is so valuable to a student that it is worth pursuing the issue. Maybe this would be something for the HSLDA to take up.