Homeowner suing to stop homeless shelter

[Maelstrom1]

I think we are all upset about the situation. There are so many nuances to the causes of homelessness. It’s very diificult to find a reliable clearinghouse source which does not have a preconceived agenda of some type. One huge difference that I have seen change over the years is a lack of face to face interviewing. Basically, you apply online, the computer program decides if you are a good fit (and your credit must be very good or you’re branded as a potential thief), the end results are spit out and only then are you interviewed. The homeless have no chance. How is address filled in? Then one must lie! How far does one lie to get the job? Used to be one could be a hard worker and get a job at the local mill. There is no local mill anymore: there’ve moved overseas. Even service jobs are faltering. We all see many old local stores closing for good. The disruption to all aspects of employment is a huge problem and we fiddle as the fires spread. Hence the fall of the middle class, we are increasingly a two tier financial system, the poor and the well-off.

 

[vz71]

Pnewton said the griper doesn’t own his neighbor’s property, which is the property the homeowner is trying to control.

The homeowner likewise is trying to control the value of their property.
What exactly is wrong with that?

 

[Zaccheus]

Zaccheus:

Pnewton said the griper doesn’t own his neighbor’s property, which is the property the homeowner is trying to control.

The homeowner likewise is trying to control the value of their property.
What exactly is wrong with that?

Nothing, as far as it goes. But the issue of how to help the homeless remains. And the desire to control one’s property does not confer the right to do just anything for that goal, and in particular does not confer the right to control the property of others.

 

[Viki63]

What’s your take on Amazon? Has it been a good or bad thing for Seattle?

I think it’s basically good, though there are problems with Amazon. They’ve provided a lot of jobs.

A college education is the bare minimum.

I think trade school is more useful, even though it doesn’t give you a well rounded education. (Not to mention the nonsense that’s being preached at universities) I have a college degree but had to go to community college to get a license to actually work (nursing) But there are more than a few well educated folks who’ve fallen prey to addiction or mental illness. That’s what we need to address.

 

[Welshrabbit]

I think it’s basically good, though there are problems with Amazon. They’ve provided a lot of jobs.

They’re opening their HQ #2 near me. I’m a little apprehensive but happy about it overall.

 

[Peeps]

Having a high school education without learning a trade is worthless. A college education is the bare minimum.

Of course just having a high school diploma is worthless–no one gets paid just because they earned a diploma.

But…without that high school diploma, you are not likely to be admitted into a trade school to learn a trade, and unless you have a loving relative who owns a company, you are not likely to get the training on-the-job to learn that trade (which used to be the way people learned trades, but not anymore).

And I’m pretty certain that the military requires a high school diploma–I know that they used to help recruits get their G.E.D., but I think ?? that was for those who were drafted.

And obviously you won’t be admitted into any college without a high school diploma.

I’m not sure if a real estate licence requires a high school diploma? I think it does.

Even sports teams seem to require high school diplomas nowadays, so it doesn’t matter if you are ultra-athletic and talented.

So yes, you’re absolutely right–when it comes to getting a job that pays an adequate salary/wage, a high school diploma isn’t going to cut it.

But in the U.S, generally speaking, the high school diploma is required to do the things (trade school, college, military) that lead to a good-paying job.

There are always exceptions–those people who drop out of high school, invent a widgit or a flamdoodle, and make bazillions on the sales. or start a garage band and end up making millions on Top 20 hits–but these exceptions are so rare.

In our city, 50% of African American young men (under age 18) drop out of high school. This is one reason why the unemployment rate among African Americans in our city is so very very high. All the Christian love in the world can’t make up for that lack of a basic high school education and the diploma that is required for many of the pursuits I mentioned above. And it’s really tough to get the secular realm to pass public policy laws that hand out freebies (housing, transportation, high aid payments, etc.) to strong, able-bodied, mentally-normal young men.

One of the programs that our city has developed in the last 20 years is the “alternative high school.” This school gives people who have dropped out a second chance, and it also admits young people for whom traditional schools, Christian schools, and home schools aren’t working. There is on site CHILD CARE for young women (and men, too, sometimes). Every student is given all kinds of intervention–food, transportation, and lots of individualized help in each class. There is also a clinic on campus. AND the school is located in the section of town where the majority of the poor live–just makes so much sense!

This school has been a second chance for so many young men and women, and the teachers and other staff who work there are amazing people!

 

[Peeps]

I think trade school is more useful, even though it doesn’t give you a well rounded education.

“School” is not required to get a well-rounded education.

My brother is a welder/mechanic with a two-year trade school certificate (and a massive amount of skill!).

But he is also a history buff who reads a lot (he likes to buy the booklets that many small towns and cities have written about their histories over the decades–almost every small town in Northern Illinois has these booklets available).

He also tours historic sites and doesn’t just look, but engages the curators in conversation.

And he talks to old people. He often says that it’s such a tragedy when an old person dies, because all that history is gone. He’s not talking about just significant events, but everyday life in the “olden days.”

My mother never even earned a high school diploma, but until she was too old and frail to hold up the books, she read the very best of classics and was a wonderful writer and storyteller.

So people CAN and SHOULD keep studying and learning even when they are not enrolled in a formal school.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

it appears many who post have a fond memory of when they were young, the economy was doing well for EVERYONE

Huh? I’m 50+ years old. I grew up in the 70s when industry was shutting down all over the place, people were getting laid off from steel mills and factories and everyplace else right and left, gas prices were through the roof and it was even hard in my area for teenagers to find summer jobs. My husband’s hometown went through even worse economic hell than mine. In my adult life, I’ve changed careers, been laid off, worked for about 10 different employers and this is all in spite of having way more college education than I want to talk about on here, including tuition loans into the six figures. This is the norm among people I know. I have known like 1 guy who managed to work for the same employer for 30 years and he lived in constant fear of being laid off until he finally died so now he doesn’t have to worry about it any more. One of my relatives who’s close to my age had to get a bachelor’s degree in order to get an hourly wage job in a steel mill.

You have an unusual (to put it kindly) idea of how the US economy was doing during previous administrations, and of the experiences of older people.

I’m muting this thread now because I can’t really engage in an un-heated discussion with people who seem to completely lack understanding of recent US economic history.

 

[Socrates92]

I would move out of that city! There are plenty of cheaper places to live in the U.S. that have decent weather (e.g., Texas!). Does anyone think it would work if cities with needs for more people would advertise, and help working homeless to move to their city; e.g. , paying their moving expenses and six months of rent in a small apartment so that they have time to get settled and look for a permanent home?

My hunch is that this would have to be spearheaded by actual businesses that are experiencing the shortages to be effective and run smoothly. But then the danger is that they’d face accusations of “exploiting” desperate people for labour, or being cheap if they appeared to be paying below market rate for the labour. Which might turn into a PR nightmare. Otherwise I like the idea though.

 

[Socrates92]

And I’m pretty certain that the military requires a high school diploma–I know that they used to help recruits get their G.E.D., but I think ?? that was for those who were drafted.

In Canada, only Gr. 10 is required for NCMs. That, and passing a very basic aptitude test (and physical, medical, etc, etc.)

 

[pnewton]

The homeowner likewise is trying to control the value of their property.
What exactly is wrong with that?

Nothing wrong with trying per se, but one does not have any right to fixed or increased property values, any more than one has a right to keep one’s stock portfolio’s value. If the effort to maintain the value of either stock or property is done in a way that is immoral, then that is wrong. So the question here is what is the moral option, not what is the capitalistic option.

 

[Viki63]

But…without that high school diploma, you are not likely to be admitted into a trade school to learn a trade,

Some states, such as California, New York and Hawaii have no requirements for GED or high school diplomas when students attend certain community colleges. As of 2017, the only requirement is that students be at least 18 years old at the time of application.

 

[poche]

That would make too much sense.

 

[Peeps]

Some states, such as California, New York and Hawaii have no requirements for GED or high school diplomas when students attend certain community colleges. As of 2017, the only requirement is that students be at least 18 years old at the time of application.

That’s interesting. I wonder if this is an attempt to alleviate poverty–not sure about Hawaii, but we all know that California and New York (at least in their big cities) have a lot of suffering due to poverty.

 

[dochawk]

in California, at least, it was more a matter of letting someone who reached adulthood and could do the work give it a try . . . there are still placement tests that could require reme3dial work

 

[Bruised_Reed]

A significant number of states have some kind of dual enrollment for high school students. They dont have diplomas but are taking college classes.

 

[Peeps]

A significant number of states have some kind of dual enrollment for high school students. They dont have diplomas but are taking college classes.

Our local community college offers this. The students I know who have done it are from very nurturing, “healthy”, comfortable families, mainly homeschoolers. The students are highly intelligent, and they manage to graduate from high school by the age of 16 (homeschool) and earn their Associate’s Degree by the time they are 18. This of course gives them a definite leg-up on a 4-year college degree, as they only have to find the money to pay for two years instead of 4.

We also have colleges in the area that allow homeschooling college students–yes, homeschooled college classes!–to earn a 4-year degree. After all, a lot of college is reading and then taking a test–and that’s what these students do. The students I know who have done this are all music majors, so they finish their required classes by the time they’re 18, and spend the next two years in their music classes and their ensembles/lessons, etc., and lots of practicing at their homes. So often, a music major has to earn a Master’s Degree to be taken seriously, so this homeschooling method gives the student the chance to finish the Bachelor’s by age 20, and have their Master’s by the time they’re 22,

Wow! I admire those students who go this route in life! It seems very intelligent to me.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

In my state a lot of homeschoolers take advantage the post-secondary programs, too.

As far as coming from “comfortable” families? Probably depends on state and if the classes are free to high school students. Some are allowed so many credits per semester or year but can take more if they pay for it. Some home schoolers graduate from high school and community college the same year.

My favorite story comes from a friend who basically dropped out of school in 5th grade. When she was in high school her family moved to a small rural town in the Midwest that had community college nearby. She was eligible for the post-secondary program and was way more comfortable in the college setting. When she was 18 she moved back to Philly and resumed classes at a community college and as she neared graduation crammed for her GED. I’m not sure if it was even required at this point but she wasn’t taking any chances that her spotty education might come to light. Fast forward - she got her Master’s in bio-ethics from Temple University.

 

[RCIAGraduate]

America’s poor are different than most of the worlds.

Yeah but compared to our cohort (G8, OCED), shouldn’t we be more better, seems like other places offer more economic and financial security by virtue of policies like UHC and wider social programs. Why do our low income and working classes get a poor or unfair deal relative to them?

I’m not sure what it is in America’s culture that makes it this way.

Freedom Culture? We enjoy our freedom but don’t take responsibility? Also, how would you respond to arguments that our safety net is inadequate?

I’ve been all over the world and never seen people scorn the help offered them so much as they do here.

Yeah but can’t help being offered be given in a condescending manner or the help isn’t all that great in the first place (like poor conditions at homeless shelters and mistreatment from workers or lack of substantive support that really uplifts people and maybe some are so demoralized and lost hope)?

 

[TheLittleLady]

Today is interesting. We have our usual January cold snap. It is 28 degrees outside now.

The homeless men in our community have shelters that are 7 PM - 7 AM only. When we get our cold snap, warming centers open. One of them opens it if is 25 degrees or lower, the other 20 degrees or lower. So, the option is to loiter in the Mall, the library, etc. in order to not stand outside in 28 degree weather.