Homeschoolers forced into CCD for First Holy Eucharist

[Holly3278]

Let me see, the best way to teach a child the Faith is to teach them to disobey the Pastor and not to be part of the Parish community?

If the CCD teacher is teaching heresy, take it up with the Pastor and Bishop -

Why is there so much hatred of CCD in the homeschool community

I’d also like to know this.

 

[crazzeto]

I’ll be honest, I’m really and truely shocked anyone is complaining about taking your kids to CCD! I was listening to my fiance read through some of these and I was just shocked. I’m really not sure what you guys are thinking of replacing official church teaching with, whatever your best understanding is at home with out any guidence from the Church? I guess I don’t want to sound like I’m coming down too hard on this idea, but really there’s a reason why Jesus left a living breathing teaching Church on earth. To teach her childeren. Parents, you are your childerens first catechist, but you can’t be your childs only catechist. This will lead to more fracture, more seperation, more dissencion and people leaving the faith.

I mean how is the church to know what you are teaching your childeren at home? How are they to know you are teaching them at home? What if there’s a parent that doesn’t personally believe in the real presence and decides not to teach that to their kids? In fact they catechise their kids to think “that’s stupid”. Where are we then? This isn’t trivial, and your childs faith formation is certainly more important than football practice.

 

[ASD]

I’ll be honest, I’m really and truely shocked anyone is complaining about taking your kids to CCD!.. I mean how is the church to know what you are teaching your childeren at home? What if there’s a parent that doesn’t personally believe in the real presence and decides not to teach that to their kids? In fact they catechise their kids to think “that’s stupid”. Where are we then? This isn’t trivial, and your childs faith formation is certainly more important than football practice.

Fair enough. Let’s all agree that we want orthodox teaching.

But, here’s the problem:

• People don’t know if I’m teaching orthodoxy at home.
• I do know they’re not teaching orthodoxy at the local “faith formation.” (Here’s what they use: BAW.)

How are they to know you are teaching them at home?

Not fair at all. There’s absolutely no reason to suggest that anybody is telling lies.

ASD​

Traditional Latin Mass: Translation and Grammar

 

[st_lucy]

I’ll be honest, I’m really and truely shocked anyone is complaining about taking your kids to CCD! I was listening to my fiance read through some of these and I was just shocked. I’m really not sure what you guys are thinking of replacing official church teaching with, whatever your best understanding is at home with out any guidence from the Church? I guess I don’t want to sound like I’m coming down too hard on this idea, but really there’s a reason why Jesus left a living breathing teaching Church on earth. To teach her childeren. Parents, you are your childerens first catechist, but you can’t be your childs only catechist. This will lead to more fracture, more seperation, more dissencion and people leaving the faith.

I mean how is the church to know what you are teaching your childeren at home? How are they to know you are teaching them at home? What if there’s a parent that doesn’t personally believe in the real presence and decides not to teach that to their kids? In fact they catechise their kids to think “that’s stupid”. Where are we then? This isn’t trivial, and your childs faith formation is certainly more important than football practice.

I am sorry but by in large parents who teach ccd at home are producing children with better understanding than most of those who are taught at the church. I have taught ccd for well over 10 years and I personally will not send my children to ccd classes. I feel most comfortable teaching them at home where I know they will not get teacher who teaches that the real presence is “stupid” and yes I have seen those teachers and in small amounts the DRE who believe that.

Most home school families are teaching with the baltimore catechism which is not being used any more in most ccd class. And with all of my children the parish priest will interview the child himself to see if the child is ready for their sacrament.

 

[maryjk]

I’ll be honest, I’m really and truely shocked anyone is complaining about taking your kids to CCD! I was listening to my fiance read through some of these and I was just shocked. I’m really not sure what you guys are thinking of replacing official church teaching with, whatever your best understanding is at home with out any guidence from the Church? I guess I don’t want to sound like I’m coming down too hard on this idea, but really there’s a reason why Jesus left a living breathing teaching Church on earth. To teach her children. Parents, you are your childrens first catechist, but you can’t be your child’s only catechist. This will lead to more fracture, more seperation, more dissencion and people leaving the faith.

How is teaching the faith, at home, causing more separation? Because some parents don’t want their children dumped in a class with 60 other children, that causes separation? You assume that we are teaching from some pagan reference. When in reality, we are teaching from the Baltimore Catechism or Faith and Life.

I mean how is the church to know what you are teaching your childeren at home? How are they to know you are teaching them at home? What if there’s a parent that doesn’t personally believe in the real presence and decides not to teach that to their kids? In fact they catechise their kids to think “that’s stupid”. Where are we then? This isn’t trivial, and your child’s faith formation is certainly more important than football practice.

So what is the solution? Take the children from their parents, and teach them whatever the CCD teacher wants to teach? I know how much training some CCD teachers have. None. I don’t, but they still ask me to teach, every year.

I had a student in class two years ago. Her mom teaches our 2nd grade class. Her daughter told me that you HAVE to hold hands during the Lord’s Prayer and that you are supposed to genuflect before receiving the Host, but not from the Cup. After checking, that is what her mom is also teaching the class. Problem? I think so. What else is she teaching? I don’t know but I do know that at least part of her teaching is wrong.

 

[crazzeto]

How is teaching the faith, at home, causing more separation? Because some parents don’t want their children dumped in a class with 60 other children, that causes separation?

Because there is no way to know you are actually teaching the faith. Again, what if you don’t accept basic Church doctrine? What if you don’t even really accept God, but you figure you need to get your kids confirmed for the “grandparents”. I’m sorry, no matter how smart you might be, and I don’t doubt that you might be able to do a good job. There is no way to implement this policy with out letting just everyone do it. I think the church tried this idea c. 1538, it was a bad idea then

You assume that we are teaching from some pagan reference.

I make no assumptions at all. But I don’t think there’s anyway to be sure is there?

When in reality, we are teaching from the Baltimore Catechism or Faith and Life.
So what is the solution?

CCD is only 1 hour a night, that’s not a big sacrafice

Take the children from their parents, and teach them whatever the CCD teacher wants to teach? I know how much training some CCD teachers have. None. I don’t, but they still ask me to teach, every year.

CCD teachers can be “fired”, they also have a paid school official checking up on things. Certainly they do in my parish (I am an instructor, for 6th grade).

I had a student in class two years ago. Her mom teaches our 2nd grade class. Her daughter told me that you HAVE to hold hands during the Lord’s Prayer and that you are supposed to genuflect before receiving the Host, but not from the Cup. After checking, that is what her mom is also teaching the class. Problem? I think so. What else is she teaching? I don’t know but I do know that at least part of her teaching is wrong.

So go tell the Parish office and have it corrected, this is recourse that can’t be taken if your kids are learing everything at home.

 

[Middleman]

This thread is giving me an interesting look into how the homeschoolers I know actually think. I see it’s another division that is further weakening the Church. Very sad to this level of self-righteousness and elitism.

 

[jmcrae]

We don’t hate CCD, we are just tired of sending our children to learn a watered down faith. If the parish used a solid curriculum it might be different.

Recommend something to your DRE, then. Be an agent of the change that you want to see.

There were over 60 students in my son’s Confirmation class last year. The order of the day was sit down, shut up and listen. There really wasn’t any time to socialize.
This comment was in response to the statement that CCD can be a burden.
And it can be.
I love that you HAVE to send your child. Then your child is REQUIRED to attend an overnight retreat. Oh, and “the retreat is $80 and that check is due next week”.

I bet if you look at the Diocesan guidelines, there is nothing in there about the Retreat being an overnight affair, or needing so many supplies that it costs $80.00 per kid. The majority of Grade 6 retreats are about 5 hours long, and cover everything the kid will need to know, even if he skipped most of the actual classes.

This probably sounds funny, but I teach CCD. Crazy right? But I also feel that family should be able to home school for CCD.

I think all families should be home-schooling anyway, in addition to bringing the kids to Church and to class.

Trust me, many Parishes are just happy to have a warm body teaching. Many teachers don’t have any real theological training. Some have taken a class or two for the certificate program. But the DRE can’t force anyone to take a class. If she does, they can just leave.

And then she can cancel the program, and she can tell the Bishop that she has no qualified teachers. Ultimately, it’s his problem; not hers. She shouldn’t feel that she has to compromise.

I already spend enough of my time prepping for class, I don’t have time for classes as well. If I am suddenly required to take classes, trust me, I can find something else to do with my Sunday mornings. Our DRE even has a non-Catholic teaching a preschool class. But she can’t find anyone else.

Speaking as a person who is in charge of Catechism classes, in my view, she should cancel the preschool class, rather than have a non-Catholic teaching it. We had someone teaching heresy in the grade 1 class last year. (For some reason she thought it would be appropriate to tell the kids about Mormon beliefs.) I didn’t find a qualified replacement, so this year, the grade 1 kids are sitting in with grade 2. As far as I can tell, they’re doing just fine.

 

[maryjk]

Because there is no way to know you are actually teaching the faith. Again, what if you don’t accept basic Church doctrine? What if you don’t even really accept God, but you figure you need to get your kids confirmed for the “grandparents”. I’m sorry, no matter how smart you might be, and I don’t doubt that you might be able to do a good job. There is no way to implement this policy with out letting just everyone do it. I think the church tried this idea c. 1538, it was a bad idea then

I make no assumptions at all. But I don’t think there’s anyway to be sure is there?

No, but I can be sure of what they are using in CCD class. It a watered down version of our faith.

CCD is only 1 hour a night, that’s not a big sacrafice

At your parish. At mine, it is an hour Sunday morning. An hour on a day that should be spent with family and at rest, rather than with 60 other students in one classroom. Then for Confirmation there is a weekend co-ed retreat. For First Communion there is a Saturday “retreat” at the church.

CCD teachers can be “fired”, they also have a paid school official checking up on things. Certainly they do in my parish (I am an instructor, for 6th grade).

There isn’t a paid school official checking up on anything. We do have a paid, CRE (Coordinator of Religious Ed). No one I am aware of has ever been fired.

So go tell the Parish office and have it corrected, this is recourse that can’t be taken if your kids are learning everything at home.

How about teaching the right thing to begin with, instead of making me drill my child to make sure no one is teaching something counter to the Church’s teaching? Why do I have to police the teaching? If the Church takes responsibility to teach, they should take responsibility to police those that teach. Problem is, we are all volunteers and there aren’t enough of us.

 

[ASD]

…I had a student in class two years ago. Her mom teaches our 2nd grade class. Her daughter told me that you HAVE to hold hands during the Lord’s Prayer and that you are supposed to genuflect before receiving the Host, but not from the Cup. After checking, that is what her mom is also teaching the class. Problem? I think so. What else is she teaching? I don’t know but I do know that at least part of her teaching is wrong.

Ha. One of the “faith formation” volunteers at our parish was telling kids the other day that St. Paul was a Roman soldier. Not a crucial doctrinal point, but, yea, it makes one wonder what else she was telling kids.

This thread is giving me an interesting look into how the homeschoolers I know actually think. I see it’s another division that is further weakening the Church. Very sad to this level of self-righteousness and elitism.

So, let me see if I can get this straight.

• When the “faith formation” officials don’t know that we’re teaching orthodoxy at home, that’s a problem.
• But, when we object to heterodoxy that we do know is being taught in “faith formation,” that’s elitism.

ASD​

Traditional Latin Mass: Translation and Grammar

 

[jmcrae]

*]But, when we object to heterodoxy that we do know is being taught in “faith formation,” that’s elitism.

When you simply assume that, because it’s taking place on parish grounds instead of at home, it’s obviously got to be heterodox, then yes, that’s elitism.

I find it strange that when I homeschool my kids, I’m considered to be greater and more orthodox than the most educated Catholic theologian on the whole planet, but as soon as I take a position in the Church to direct Catechism classes, I am suddenly assumed to be a totally uneducated heretic who can’t be trusted not to accidentally poison the holy water.

 

[Brendan]

Because there is no way to know you are actually teaching the faith. Again, what if you don’t accept basic Church doctrine? What if you don’t even really accept God, but you figure you need to get your kids confirmed for the “grandparents”. I’m sorry, no matter how smart you might be, and I don’t doubt that you might be able to do a good job. There is no way to implement this policy with out letting just everyone do it. I think the church tried this idea c. 1538, it was a bad idea then
.

That is why the pastor has the responsibility to test the children to ensure their knowledge is correct.

But it doesn’t matter how the child obtained that knowledge, one way or the other.

 

[StrawberryJam]

I tend to agree with jmcrae,

If you think the CCD teachers are teaching heterodoxy and you think they will poison your children, why not offer to teach the class yourself? After all, you can’t just worry about your own children, what about all the others in your “community”?

Eventually your children will grow up, get married, maybe even move. Maybe they will end up in a good parish, maybe a so-so one. Maybe a bad one. They will eventually be exposed to it all at some point, and wouldn’t it be best to have it happen now so you can use this time (where your opinion has more sticking value now) to teach them the difference and why?

 

[CDNowak]

I’ll be honest, I’m really and truely shocked anyone is complaining about taking your kids to CCD! I was listening to my fiance read through some of these and I was just shocked. I’m really not sure what you guys are thinking of replacing official church teaching with, whatever your best understanding is at home with out any guidence from the Church? I guess I don’t want to sound like I’m coming down too hard on this idea, but really there’s a reason why Jesus left a living breathing teaching Church on earth. To teach her childeren. Parents, you are your childerens first catechist, but you can’t be your childs only catechist. This will lead to more fracture, more seperation, more dissencion and people leaving the faith.

I mean how is the church to know what you are teaching your childeren at home? How are they to know you are teaching them at home? What if there’s a parent that doesn’t personally believe in the real presence and decides not to teach that to their kids? In fact they catechise their kids to think “that’s stupid”. Where are we then? This isn’t trivial, and your childs faith formation is certainly more important than football practice.

When you simply assume that, because it’s taking place on parish grounds instead of at home, it’s obviously got to be heterodox, then yes, that’s elitism.

I find it strange that when I homeschool my kids, I’m considered to be greater and more orthodox than the most educated Catholic theologian on the whole planet, but as soon as I take a position in the Church to direct Catechism classes, I am suddenly assumed to be a totally uneducated heretic who can’t be trusted not to accidentally poison the holy water.

I tend to agree with jmcrae,

If you think the CCD teachers are teaching heterodoxy and you think they will poison your children, why not offer to teach the class yourself? After all, you can’t just worry about your own children, what about all the others in your “community”?

Eventually your children will grow up, get married, maybe even move. Maybe they will end up in a good parish, maybe a so-so one. Maybe a bad one. They will eventually be exposed to it all at some point, and wouldn’t it be best to have it happen now so you can use this time (where your opinion has more sticking value now) to teach them the difference and why?

Alright, homeschoolers have presented their case, complete with support from canon law and Church teaching. Nowhere in this case did we argue against checks (ranging from pastoral guidance as to program to pre-sacramental interviews). Is anyone going to make a similarly supported case against, or are you simply going to continue making accusations against homeschoolers?

Homeschoolers have fought, and continue to fight, many battles to protect their children and their rights and responsibilities in raising them. For many, they were burned one too many times in a Religious education program, and not just by individual teachers. They know they can’t save the entire program, in most cases it is an insanely difficult uphill battle to make an impact in one class. Their first obligation is to their own children.

Over the last three generations catechesis was primarily a school or parish affair. In that time, the number of ‘Catholics’ has increased (up 19.6 million), but the number of Mass-going Catholics has decreased (down over 7 million). (data from CARA) The system may very well be broken as a whole and, short of a parish that is willing to radically re-examine the system, retreat and retrenchment may be the solution.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Retreat and retrenchment? A “solution”?

What on earth are you talking about? Many a cult starts this way.

 

[maryjk]

Recommend something to your DRE, then. Be an agent of the change that you want to see.

I did, I was told that Faith First was the one approved by the Bishop.

I bet if you look at the Diocesan guidelines, there is nothing in there about the Retreat being an overnight affair, or needing so many supplies that it costs $80.00 per kid. The majority of Grade 6 retreats are about 5 hours long, and cover everything the kid will need to know, even if he skipped most of the actual classes.

I bet there isn’t. But after one letter, 3 emails and two conversations with various people, I was told that either he attends or he doesn’t get Confirmed.

I think all families should be home-schooling anyway, in addition to bringing the kids to Church and to class.

Yes, they should, but most parents see CCD as babysitting. Free babysitting if you don’t charge for your program. I see this every time someone tries to drop their child off when there isn’t CCD. The parents I see get upset, some saying, but I was going out to grocery shop or I was going out for coffee. What do I do now? Um, take your child?

And then she can cancel the program, and she can tell the Bishop that she has no qualified teachers. Ultimately, it’s his problem; not hers. She shouldn’t feel that she has to compromise.

Bet she doesn’t have her job long if she does that.

Speaking as a person who is in charge of Catechism classes, in my view, she should cancel the preschool class, rather than have a non-Catholic teaching it. We had someone teaching heresy in the grade 1 class last year. (For some reason she thought it would be appropriate to tell the kids about Mormon beliefs.) I didn’t find a qualified replacement, so this year, the grade 1 kids are sitting in with grade 2. As far as I can tell, they’re doing just fine.

This year we have a class with twice the number of students then most other classes. But we don’t have another room for another class, so we can’t break the class in two. The Pastor told the teacher that she has to take more students if more register. See they are afraid that the parents will never come back to church or CCD if we turn them away until the new church is open, 6 weeks from now.

They would never cancel a class. They have never canceled a class.

It seems that people that feel we should all love to send our children to these classes, all have wonderful programs, wonderful teachers and enough room for small classes.

Our church doesn’t. Last year we had over 60 in the Confirmation class. This year there are 25 in one 4th grade class. We have a teacher that isn’t Catholic.

 

[CDNowak]

Retreat and retrenchment? A “solution”?

What on earth are you talking about? Many a cult starts this way.

So absolutely no defense of the alleged necessity of CCD? (and yes, I will be asking every post).

Yes, pulling back from the fight for orthodox teaching (or civilized behavior, or whichever of the reasons that the family desires to homeschool for RE) in order to actual give our children a chance is a reasonable strategy.

And (here’s to you Goodwin!) if you wish to compare homeschooling to cults, I suggest you look at a certain regime that forbade homeschooling: Germany, 1930’s. Now that we are done with that nonsense, perhaps you would like to make a meaningful contribution to the debate, yes?

 

[jmcrae]

I bet there isn’t. But after one letter, 3 emails and two conversations with various people, I was told that either he attends or he doesn’t get Confirmed.

Was one of those conversations with the Bishop?

Bet she doesn’t have her job long if she does that.

I bet she’s working for free, or pretty close to it, anyway. But I’m also thinking that she is very emotionally invested in the program, and has lost sight of the forest for the trees.

Our church doesn’t. Last year we had over 60 in the Confirmation class. This year there are 25 in one 4th grade class.

Something’s going right, if that many families are involved.

We have a teacher that isn’t Catholic.

This is a serious problem. She needs to be removed. Gently, obviously - but she needs to be made aware that as a non-Catholic, she is not permitted to get involved as a leader in parish life. This is something you get to do after you have received the Sacrament of Confirmation in the Catholic Church.

 

[jmcrae]

So absolutely no defense of the alleged necessity of CCD? (and yes, I will be asking every post).

Are you saying that kids require absolutely no training at all in the Catholic faith? Whether you do CCD at home, or in the parish, or at school, I’m sure we all agree that it’s important.

The Sacramental Preparation portion is based in the parish because the Church wants the children to receive the Sacraments from their own parish priest, in the company of their neighbors and friends.

As for me, I have nothing against home schooling. Everyone should be doing it, in addition to bringing their children to Church and sending them to school.

 

[CDNowak]

Are you saying that kids require absolutely no training at all in the Catholic faith? Whether you do CCD at home, or in the parish, or at school, I’m sure we all agree that it’s important.

The Sacramental Preparation portion is based in the parish because the Church wants the children to receive the Sacraments from their own parish priest, in the company of their neighbors and friends.

As for me, I have nothing against home schooling. Everyone should be doing it, in addition to bringing their children to Church and sending them to school.

Yes, children need absolutely no training in the faith.

As much as you may assert your preference for children to go to school, it is only your preference. Why do you insist on your *preference *against parents’ rights and responsibilities? Do you have anything to support your claim that (emphasis yours) Everyone should be sending their children to school?

I made the case that it lies in the parents’ prerogative to educate their children. If you cannot make your own case, then I submit such as evidence on the effectiveness of homeschooling, as well as the hollowness of your claim.