Homeschoolers forced into CCD for First Holy Eucharist

[PacoG]

Me and my wife went through this already.

You are homeschooling? I hope you aren’t the grammar teacher. .

I’m joking. Don’t get all upset.

 

[Brendan]

Nobody is legislating how the parents form the child’s faith in the home. What is being legislated is how the child is brought into the sacraments, and that is decided by the Church, not the parent.

Correct, the Church (as in the whole Church) requires a certain level of understanding to recieve the Sacraments. The Church (as in the Vatican) has stated that the parents may teach, and the pastor may test. Any other requirements ( like a particular program) are simply recommendations.

The Church tells WHAT must be studied, the parents decide HOW.

I will also add that this conflict is only going to escalate as long as home-schoolers insist upon being vocally confrontational and obstructive about these issues–a practice almost universal in my dealings with this group.

I agree, there really should not be any confrontation. If a parent brings in a child, the pastor or desgnatee may suggest the local program.

If the parent chooses otherwise, the should bring the child in on a regular interval to be tested to see if their level of understanding is equivalent to those in the official program.

That is all that the bishop, pastor or anyone can require.

 

[Brendan]

Pastors have the right to set up sacramental prep. He even stated that the BISHOP in the diocese wanted the HS kids to be in RE/CCD. Homeschoolers seem to have a problem accepting any opinion/authority than their own. Following the magisterium is not always easy but the faithful are supposed to submit and obey. By magisterium I mean the bishops in our own time period and not the 1950s.

The point is that the Magisterium has stated that such programs or particular law are not to be considered a requirement for presentation for the Sacraments.

See the dubium I posted earlier.

 

[Middleman]

Let me see, the best way to teach a child the Faith is to teach them to disobey the Pastor and not to be part of the Parish community?

If the CCD teacher is teaching heresy, take it up with the Pastor and Bishop -

Why is there so much hatred of CCD in the homeschool community

Wondering that myself. It seems to be a social opportunity as well. They can get to know non-homeschoolers in a religious setting.

 

[jmcrae]

Wondering that myself. It seems to be a social opportunity as well. They can get to know non-homeschoolers in a religious setting.

Right, exactly. It’s almost as if home-schoolers have a fear of letting their children socialize.

 

[st_lucy]

I can’t think of even one. Can you give an example?

Most of the Saints I know of either attended Catholic schools and/or attended parish programs, or else went through the 3-7 year RCIA process of the Early Church, or else were taught by Jesus as a member of the crowd, or as one of the 12 disciples.

The only “famous Catholic” I know of who took private instruction is Scott Hahn (and even he was received into the Church at a public liturgy) - as far as I know, he hasn’t been canonized, yet.

Well St Therese comes to mind fist of all since she was schooled at home by her sister. But any Saint who lived prior to 1850’s probable since most schooling would have taken place at the home.

 

[Learning123]

The Subsidiarity is actually at the home level. The role of the pastor is simply to confirm that the canidate has been mentally and spritually prepared as any other canidate.

Here is a quote on the responsium.
Quote:
“The Congregation considers it useful to point out that it is the role of the parents as the primary educators of their children and then of the Sacred Pastors to see that candidates for the reception of the Sacrament of Confirmation are properly instructed to receive the Sacrament and come to it at the opportune time (cf. can. 890). Consequently, when a member of the faithful wishes to receive this Sacrament, even though not satisfying one or more elements of the local legislation (e.g., being younger than the designated age for administration of the Sacrament), those elements must give way to the fundamental right of the faithful to receive the Sacraments. Indeed, the longer the conferral of the Sacrament is delayed after the age of reason, the greater will be the number of candidates who are prepared for its reception but are deprived of its grace for a considerable period of time.”

So yes, the pastor (or their delegate) could interview the child, but if the child’s answeres are equvilent to what they would get from one who went through the parish program, the child is to be admitted. And there is no disobedience in a parent chooseing this option.

It is the right of the parent to perform the education, and the responsibility of the pastor to see that the education was sucessful. The pastor or bishop can recommend a course of study, but cannot make one mandatory as a matter of particular law.

Thank you! I haven’t gotten through all the other responses. Your description is how I understood of subsidiarity, local meaning all the way down to the domestic church, the family. The quote you provided is exactly the sort of thing I’ve heard but couldn’t track back down.

 

[Middleman]

Right, exactly. It’s almost as if home-schoolers have a fear of letting their children socialize.

Many homeschoolers seem very fearful of outside influences and overly controlling, I’ve noticed. Many spend a lot of time bad-mouthing public schools too. It seems like there is quite a bit of negativity that often motivates many of them.

 

[st_lucy]

Wondering that myself. It seems to be a social opportunity as well. They can get to know non-homeschoolers in a religious setting.

what makes you think that they don’t socialize with non-home schoolers?

 

[Learning123]

For the record, because every time I post this advice in similar discussions, I am the target of vicious PMs accusing me of attacking home-schoolers, this parish actively supports home-schoolers, and my requirement is precisely what the diocese has directed: I review the home-school work, looking at whatever evaluation process the program supplies, the children take the same test every child in school or CCD takes, and I interview each child and parent, the same as I do for CCD. The parents (and sponsors if they have any) take the same preparation classes prescribed for the entire diocese. There is no additional requirement placed on any home-schooling family that is not also that prescribed by the Particular Law of the Diocese of Brownsvill that does not apply to every other family.

also for the record, our Catholic school children particpate in their own religion classes, sacramental preparation and retreats, but their parents and sponsors attend the classes provided, according to Diocesan directive, by their home parish (we are a regional school). In practice, most come to my meetings because they find them more convenient.

It sounds like your parish has an excellent program across the board! It’s good to hear that the parents are so involved and all children are tested the same.

 

[jmcrae]

Well St Therese comes to mind fist of all since she was schooled at home by her sister.

She took her Catechism classes at the Convent with the other children, though.

But any Saint who lived prior to 1850’s probable since most schooling would have taken place at the home.

And again, Catechism was taught at the Rectory by the priest, for boys (and sometimes also girls), or else at the Convent with the Sisters, for girls. For example, Maria Goretti didn’t attend school, but she attended Catechism classes at the parish church, and received permission from the priest who taught her classes to receive Holy Communion weekly, unlike her classmates, it says, meaning that she was not receiving private instruction, but she was in a class with other children.

 

[st_lucy]

Many homeschoolers seem very fearful of outside influences and overly controlling, I’ve noticed. Many spend a lot of time bad-mouthing public schools too. It seems like there is quite a bit of negativity that often motivates many of them.

I am very sad by the hurtful things being said here by the posters about home schoolers.

 

[Middleman]

I am very sad by the hurtful things being said here by the posters about home schoolers.

I’m sorry that your feelings are hurt. Maybe this thread isn’t a good idea for you to read.

We did homeschool a couple of years and were definitely turned off by the negativity we encountered amongst fellow homeschoolers. Some of them were downright zealots. The seemed to have an us against mentality. It was not a positive experience.

 

[st_lucy]

I’m sorry that your feelings are hurt. Maybe this thread isn’t a good idea for you to read.

We did homeschool a couple of years and were definitely turned off by the negativity we encountered amongst fellow homeschoolers. Some of them were downright zealots. The seemed to have an us against mentality. It was not a positive experience.

So now you feel it is your duty to judge all by the handful you met?

 

[Middleman]

So now you feel it is your duty to judge all by the handful you met?

And you feel it your duty to scold me for my opinion.

 

[leonie]

Wondering that myself. It seems to be a social opportunity as well. They can get to know non-homeschoolers in a religious setting.

I gave a huge list of reasons in post#8, but I know that it’s easy to miss posts in a long thread. I tend to skim read long threads, too.

As for my family, we don’t need more social experiences. Our social activities are wearing me out!! We do lots of activities with kids that aren’t homeschooled, including youth group, cyo sports, little league, library activities, retreats, youth programs, vbs, volunteering at Church events, etc.

What I am thinking is that an hour once a week of ccd doesn’t seem burdensome to most people. But, I do find it a burden to do an unnecessary class on Sunday morning.

But, the parish school kids **are not required **to go to CCD. My kids are receiving a very competent Catholic education during the week. The public school kids are not doing catechism daily during the week. So, even though it’s a hassle, their parents sacrifice to send them.

It’s a burden. It’s unnecessary. It’s taking the most important educational experience that I will do and giving it to someone else. What’s the point? Even if they are good, how can I know? I certainly can’t sit in on the all the classes–and if I did, what would be the purpose.

The state of Indiana recognizes my homeschool family as a private school. And, we use a Catholic curriculum. I would understand my pastor asking to see our religious materials or interviewing my kids, but I don’t see why we would be required to take CCD classes if the parish school kids aren’t required.

 

[heathernoel]

Homeschoolers v public v Catholic school is a debate that will never result with a winner.

I am a public school teacher whose children are now attending public school after they were homeschooled and spent 2-3 years in Catholic school. We are much happier with the public school curriculum, and supplement nightly with the curriculum suggested by our Parish for Catechesis. My children DO go to weekly CCD because of the chance to converse/fellowship with Catholic children their own age in an atmosphere conducive to faith related discussions.

I think it’s up to a parent to decide if they are keeping their kids out of CCD for the wrong reasons. I would pray about it, and not just assume it’s a horrible program. THAT in itself tells the children that you like your church, just not what they teach

 

[jmcrae]

It’s a burden.

It’s not supposed to be. The idea is that the parish is supporting you and helping you teach your child.

It’s unnecessary.

In the sense that it isn’t food, clothing, or a minimum standard of shelter, sure, it’s not necessary - neither is most of what we give our kids.

It’s taking the most important educational experience that I will do and giving it to someone else. What’s the point?

Two things are happening here; one is, your child finds out that you are not the only person on earth who believes these things - hearing them from an adult not related to her helps her to universalize the teaching, and understand that this is an “everybody believes this” thing; not a “here’s how my family does it” thing. Secondly, it allows your child to interact with a variety of different ways of approaching the material. The teacher might have some story illustrations that you hadn’t thought of, that lend 3-dimensionality to your child’s experience of learning the faith.

Even if they are good, how can I know?

By asking for their teaching credentials and for their theological training background. Have they taken the Catechetical Certificate program for your Diocese, or are they in the process of doing so? If they don’t have their Theology degrees, yet, are they taking the classes, and if not, are they planning to in the near future? If they don’t have these things, then you have the right to mention to your priest that you don’t believe the Catechist is qualified.

 

[grandfather]

Maybe a retrospective view of what went on in the Church for the last few decades might help explain why some parents prefer to teach their children at home.

About fifteen years ago I was at a Kof C meeting. Most of the knights were senior citizens. This particular evening each one lamented how they raised four, five, or six kids and sent them all to parish religious ed classes and not one remained Catholic. They wondered what went wrong. The families were all regular Mass goers, involved in Church activities and their kids all left. These parents felt betrayed. Maybe they should have been keeping an eye on what their kids were being taught, or not taught. I know two sisters who fit the same profile. One raised eight and the other ten. Both were very devout women and not one child is practicing the faith today. They sent them all to the parish for instruction.

A bishop once made what he thought was a joke to me. He said the largest Christian denomination in the country is Catholic, and the second largest is ex-Catholic. He was alluding to the exodus of Catholics from the Church of that perioid.

I was listening to a Protestant radio show about the same time and there were three ministers talking. The topic came up of having ex-Catholics in their congregations. The first said 25% of his church population are ex-Catholic. Another said 50 and the third said 75.

I taught CCD in the late 70s and very early 80s. The books were useless. They had nothing to do with teaching the precepts of the faith. A major reason so many Catohlics left the Church is bad catechesis. They left what they never understood or what they misunderstood. No one ever taught them.

I remember many years when it came time to find teachers and a call would go out for volunteers. There were no qualifications. They would plead for volunteers saying not to worry about being knowledgable. All the materials would be provided.

It is extremely important to a devout Catholic parent that the child understand the faith and embrace it. They take their responsibility very seriously.

We measure the quality of an educational program by end results. If a kid of average intelligence attends school every day and grows up and can’t read or do math the program is a failure. In the case of religious education how would we measure success or failure? Some might say it does not matter whether or not the adult remains a practicing Catholic. Maybe Catholicism was not right for that person. I think most would agree that as a minimum if an adult remains in the Church as a practicing Catholic, goes to Mass, that is a good sign something minimally was done right. Then there are degrees of educational success. There are intelligent people who graduate from high school and some who get PhDs. The same is true of religious education. We have dropouts, lukewarm barely practicing Catholics who go to Mass, but want it to hurry up so they can get to the golf course, and very devout who are deeply involved in faith life. Seeds get planted in religious education, home or in class, and they may vigorously grow or not.

In the case of the KCs families the parish education totally failed. I don’t think their stories were uncommon. I had a parish priest who bragged about handing out condoms at Church events. The DRE was an ex-nun who left her vows to matty an ex-priest who left his and became a psychologist. THe same parish had a pastor who was sentenced to 14 years in state prision. Guess why? Another pastor was removed from duties. Same reason. Do you think I should have sent my children to their programs?

But back to measuring results. I know quite a few Catholic parents of big families who homeschooled through high school, and now their children are grown. When it came time to select a college they mainly chose Catholic colleges with orthodox reputations.
Some are married and raising their own families now, all still practicing the faith seriously and a fairly significant number of these yonug men and women have entered religious life. I would have to say that the profile was exactly the opposite of the KCs whose children all stopped practicing the faith completely. Do you think their formation in faith might have been an influence?

After a long period of decline there seems to be a an increase in religious vocations in recent years. Things are trending back up. Wouln’t it be interesting if we could poll all of these young vocations and learn about their faith formation and see what patterns emerge?

 

[grandfather]

a last comment

The idea that since St. Therese, Maria Goretti, and Bernadette were taught in parish classes, this is an endosrsement of what is taught in religious education today is baseless in fact or reason.

That is like saying all school curricula are good, regardless of the teacher, the text book, and the study demands placed on the students, because Einstein went to school. Good grief!