HOMILY AFTER 2nd READING, then ALLELUIA AND GOSPEL READING

[benedictgal]

Sarika, isn’t this your OP? “the lector read the Gospel reading.”

Is this lector a layperson? Or an instituted lector (a minor clerical order, only men, I don’t know if there are even any of them around anymore)?

Regardless of whether or not the person doing the reading is a layperson or a duly instituted lector, the Gospel must be proclaimed by ordained clergy (deacon, priest or bishop).

 

[Stylites]

The priest does not have the right to change the order of the Mass. The priest is bound by holy obedience to follow the rubrics and the norms spelled out in the Roman Missal and in the GIRM.

Being an amateur Catholic rather than a professional with a speed dial to the Vatican, I leave that judgment to a priest and his bishop.

 

[benedictgal]

Being an amateur Catholic rather than a professional with a speed dial to the Vatican, I leave that judgment to a priest and his bishop.

There is no need to be uncharitable, insulting and sarcastic, Stylites. Rubrics do matter. Furthermore, the Holy See has stated in Redemptionis Sacramentum that:

1. Complaints Regarding Abuses in Liturgical Matters
   [183.] In an altogether particular manner, let everyone do all that is in their power to ensure that the Most Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist will be protected from any and every irreverence or distortion and that all abuses be thoroughly corrected. This is a most serious duty incumbent upon each and every one, and all are bound to carry it out without any favoritism.

[184.] Any Catholic, whether Priest or Deacon or lay member of Christ’s faithful, has the right to lodge a complaint regarding a liturgical abuse to the diocesan Bishop or the competent Ordinary equivalent to him in law, or to the Apostolic See on account of the primacy of the Roman Pontiff.290 It is fitting, however, insofar as possible, that the report or complaint be submitted first to the diocesan Bishop. This is naturally to be done in truth and charity.

Your responses seem to indicate that perhaps you do not find the norms important or necessary. That is your opinion and, naturally, you are entitled to it; however, that does not mean that you can insult those of us who do care about the integrity of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

 

[Stylites]

Rubrics do matter.

Where is the abuse or irreverence in presenting a homily after the 2nd reading? We should be supportive of our priests instead of laying in wait to pounce upon imagined wrongs. And how insulting it is to imply that others who disagree with an opinion somehow therefore don’t care about the integrity of the Mass.

 

[benedictgal]

Where is the abuse or irreverence in presenting a homily after the 2nd reading? We should be supportive of our priests instead of laying in wait to pounce upon imagined wrongs. And how insulting it is to imply that others who disagree with an opinion somehow therefore don’t care about the integrity of the Mass.

It is not up to the priest to change that which the Church has already ordered. The Roman Missal and the GIRM specifically state that the homily is to be preached after the proclamation of the Gospel.

These are not imagined wrongs, as you call them. As Redemptionis Sacramentum states:

[7.] Not infrequently, abuses are rooted in a false understanding of liberty. Yet God has not granted us in Christ an illusory liberty by which we may do what we wish, but a liberty by which we may do that which is fitting and right.18 This is true not only of precepts coming directly from God, but also of laws promulgated by the Church, with appropriate regard for the nature of each norm. For this reason, all should conform to the ordinances set forth by legitimate ecclesiastical authority.

[8.] It is therefore to be noted with great sadness that “ecumenical initiatives which are well-intentioned, nevertheless indulge at times in Eucharistic practices contrary to the discipline by which the Church expresses her faith”. Yet the Eucharist “is too great a gift to tolerate ambiguity or depreciation”. It is therefore necessary that some things be corrected or more clearly delineated so that in this respect as well “the Eucharist will continue to shine forth in all its radiant mystery”.19

[9.] Finally, abuses are often based on ignorance, in that they involve a rejection of those elements whose deeper meaning is not understood and whose antiquity is not recognized. For “the liturgical prayers, orations and songs are pervaded by the inspiration and impulse” of the Sacred Scriptures themselves, “and it is from these that the actions and signs receive their meaning”.20 As for the visible signs “which the Sacred Liturgy uses in order to signify the invisible divine realities, they have been chosen by Christ or by the Church”.21 Finally, the structures and forms of the sacred celebrations according to each of the Rites of both East and West are in harmony with the practice of the universal Church also as regards practices received universally from apostolic and unbroken tradition,22 which it is the Church’s task to transmit faithfully and carefully to future generations. All these things are wisely safeguarded and protected by the liturgical norms.

Your responses, as I wrote earlier, seem to indicate that perhaps norms do not matter. As I also wrote earlier, that is your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it. However, to seem to imply that these are nothing to be worried about seems to me to miss the fact that the Church has stated just the opposite.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Thanks Centurion,
I knew SOMEBODY would find the right place for the answer…

Funny, you and I are Canadian and you found the answer in a USSCB document.

Cheers!

Canada doesn’t have a recent approved GIRM. But I think we’re getting one for the new translation of the Roman Mass.

 

[ConstantineTG]

We didn’t sit. We stood. The Gospel reading and the homily were in reverse order because “Jesus sometimes changed the way He did things in order to get the people’s attention.”

Well, for one thing Jesus could change the order of Mass if He wanted to. Someone remind the good priest that acting in persona Cristi doesn’t mean that he is Christ.

 

[Stylites]

It is not up to the priest to change that which the Church has already ordered. The Roman Missal and the GIRM specifically state that the homily is to be preached after the proclamation of the Gospel.

With all due respect to someone who is very knowledgable about the Church, there’s been nothing you quoted which requires the homily to be presented after the Gospel. And even if there were, I have to question whether we do a disservice to priests to always second-guess them and criticize them in such a public forum. Does anyone seriously think that calling for others to place nastigrams in the collection plate over this is a prompting of the Holy Spirit?

 

[benedictgal]

With all due respect to someone who is very knowledgable about the Church, there’s been nothing you quoted which requires the homily to be presented after the Gospel. And even if there were, I have to question whether we do a disservice to priests to always second-guess them and criticize them in such a public forum. Does anyone seriously think that calling for others to place nastigrams in the collection plate over this is a prompting of the Holy Spirit?

The Holy Spirit would not prompt a priest do disobey the Church. Lamentably, it is the celebrant who does the disservice to the integrity of the liturgy to make changes to the liturgy in such an arbitrary manner.

Furthermore, a previous forum member had posted the order. Nonetheless, here it is again, straight from the GIRM:

The Liturgy of the Word

1. After the Collect, all sit. The priest may, very briefly, introduce the faithful to the Liturgy of the Word. Then the lector goes to the ambo and, from the Lectionary already placed there before Mass, proclaims the first reading, to which all listen. At the end, the lector says the acclamation Verbum Domini (The word of the Lord), and all respond, Deo gratias (Thanks be to God).

Then, as appropriate, a few moments of silence may be observed so that all may meditate on what they have heard.

1. Then the psalmist or even a lector proclaims the verses of the Psalm and the people sing or say the response as usual.

1. If there is to be a second reading before the Gospel, the lector proclaims it from the ambo. All listen and at the end respond to the acclamation, as noted above (cf. no. 128). Then, as appropriate, a few moments of silence may be observed.

1. Afterwards, all rise, and the Alleluia or other chant is sung as required by the liturgical season (cf. above, nos. 62-64).

1. During the singing of the Alleluia or other chant, if incense is used, the priest puts some into the thurible and blesses it. Then, with hands joined, he bows profoundly before the altar and quietly says, Munda cor meum (Almighty God, cleanse my heart).

1. If the Book of the Gospels is on the altar, the priest then takes it and goes to the ambo, carrying the Book of the Gospels slightly elevated and preceded by the lay ministers, who may carry the thurible and the candles. Those present turn towards the ambo as a sign of special reverence to the Gospel of Christ.

1. At the ambo, the priest opens the book and, with hands joined, says, Dominus vobiscum (The Lord be with you), and the people respond, Et cum spiritu tuo (And also with you). Then he says, Lectio sancti Evangelii (A reading from the holy gospel), making the sign of the cross with his thumb on the book and on his forehead, mouth, and breast, which everyone else does as well. The people say the acclamation Gloria tibi, Domine (Glory to you, Lord). The priest incenses the book, if incense is used (cf. below, nos. 276-277). Then he proclaims the Gospel and at the end says the acclamation Verbum Domini (The gospel of the Lord), to which all respond, Laus tibi, Christe (Praise to you, Lord Jesus Christ). The priest kisses the book, saying quietly, Per evangelica dicta (May the words of the gospel).

1. If no lector is present, the priest himself proclaims all the readings and the Psalm, standing at the ambo. If incense is used, remaining at the ambo he puts some into the thurible, blesses it, and, bowing profoundly, says, Munda cor meum (Almighty God, cleanse my heart).

1. The priest, standing at the chair or at the ambo itself or, when appropriate, in another suitable place, gives the homily. When the homily is completed, a period of silence may be observed.

Thus, the homily follows the proclamation of the Gospel.

 

[John_Lilburne]

The homily should be after the Gospel, not before it. But, from the 1981 General Introduction to the Lectionary:

“15. There may be concise introductions before the readings, especially the first. The style proper to such comments must be respected, that is, they must be simple, faithful to the text, brief, well prepared, and properly varied to suit the text they introduce.[footnote 30: See General Instruction of the Roman Missal, no. 11.]”

The footnote refers to the 1975 GIRM. The 2002 GIRM has:
“31. … The presiding priest is also to direct the word of God and to impart the final blessing. In addition, he may give the faithful a very brief introduction to the Mass of the day (after the initial Greeting and before the Act of Penitence), to the Liturgy of the Word (before the readings), and to the Eucharistic Prayer (before the Preface), though never during the Eucharistic Prayer itself;”

Regarding the requirement for a homily, from the 2002 GIRM:
“66. … There is to be a homily on Sundays and holy days of obligation at all Masses that are celebrated with the participation of a congregation; it may not be omitted without a serious reason. It is recommended on other days, especially on the weekdays of Advent, Lent, and the Easter Season, as well as on other festive days and occasions when the people come to church in greater numbers.”

 

[Rahn]

The beauty and wisdom of the Liturgy of the Word is that there are three readings (one from the Old Testament, one from the New and the Gospel) that are selected because there is a theme, a common message. The homily serves to draw out the theme, expand upon it, and show how it can be applied to our daily life in order to bring us closer to God.

If you do the homily after the second reading, you have to either:

• not refer to the Gospel, or
• hope that people know it well enough that if you refer to it, people get the reference.

I could see where that might work sometimes, maybe in a case where the priest is building a case through the first two readings and then the Gospel brings home the point. It doesn’t sould like that was the case in Sarika’s experience here.

We need to also keep in mind that the Gospel is the words of Jesus Christ himself, which should have the greatest meaning to us and should be payed the highest respect of the three readings. This is why laity read the first two readings, but the priest reads the Gospel. What this prest did really looks like he’s turning his back on the Gospel, placing his own words ahead of Jesus’s.

The Liturgy of the Word has a proper order for a reason.

 

[bppettie]

The GIRM and Church are clear. The Priest has NO AUTHORITY whatever to change the mass or the order of ‘events’ of mass. The gospel must be read by a Bishop, Priest or Deacon. The homily is delivered after the gospel. The only thing he is permitted to do is base the homily on anything of the mass… he could, for ex., base his homily on the second reading, or the gospel, or some part of the creed or some prayer of the mass, or etc… deacon

 

[Sarika]

I never said anything about a lay person reading the Gospel or giving the homily. You must have misread the post.

Sorry. I made a mistake. I don’t know why I wrote (in the original post) that the lector read the Gospel. I meant that, after the homily, the priest read it! Sorry! I must be losing it.
My main concern was about the switching around of the order. I apologize.

 

[Sarika]

The representative of Christ spoke a homily. The people said “Alleluia.” The Gospel was proclaimed. That is so very wonderful. The order of the homily before the Alleluia hardly seems a reason to become a Protestant.​

I don’t quite get your post. Can you explain it? Especially the part about becoming a protestant. What are you talking about?

 

[Sarika]

Sarika, isn’t this your OP? “the lector read the Gospel reading.”

Is this lector a layperson? Or an instituted lector (a minor clerical order, only men, I don’t know if there are even any of them around anymore)?

So sorry, GwenL. I made a mistake…I don’t know why I typed “lector”, must have been
distracted. It was the priest.

 

[Sarika]

Where is the abuse or irreverence in presenting a homily after the 2nd reading? We should be supportive of our priests instead of laying in wait to pounce upon imagined wrongs. And how insulting it is to imply that others who disagree with an opinion somehow therefore don’t care about the integrity of the Mass.

You are the one doing all of the pouncing. I simply noticed what happened, and wondered if anyone else had experienced the same thing. You seem to lie in wait to cast mean, sarcastic comments at others. If this type of thing bothers you, why do you even bother to read/respond? Don’t you have anything better to do with your time?

 

[Stylites]

Basically, “if only people knew how much they are loved”. A nice sentiment (and true), but the same one I (and others) have been hearing for 25+ years from various priests. Nothing new, actually.

Consider that the lectionary repeats on a 3-year cycle. Yes, the love is God is a nice (and true) sentiment. Nothing new there.