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GRATEFULONEjim
Guest
Fornication outside of marriage is not virtuous, it is sinful!
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cemiller
Guest
Wrong… The homosexual act is a sin, sex outside of marriage is a sin, even lusting after someone is a sin. The point it seems you are trying to make is that “if it feels good it is good” and that is completely wrong. Some sins do feel good, the devil makes sure of that, because no one would want to turn their back to God for something that wasn’t all that great. There are many types of love that could be practiced here without sin, but a physical/sexual expression of same sex love is definitely not a good thing and a grave sin.
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Stornoway
Guest
Makes complete sense to me; very well said.
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Waiting
Guest
Fornication is a sin. No amount of “reasoning” can change sins against the sixth commandment to a virtue.
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graceandglory
Guest
I would read the Catholic teaching on scandal in the catechism, and make sure that you are not giving scandal. It shouldn’t be scandalous for two men to live together. I would be sure to avoid temptation and flee youthful lusts, by having your internet blocked to porn, not watching TV, and having separate sleeping quarters. I would do my best to untwist what the devil has twisted in me and spend time and effort and money on good and faithful Catholic counseling, and spiritual advising, and read papal encyclicals and Blessed Pope John Paul’s writings on the body and sexuality and love and responsibility. Probably the first place to start is Karol Wojtyla’s Love and Responsibility, the precursory book to John Paul II’s Theology of the Body. You might even consider attending a conference on the Theology of the Body, together or alone.I’m 31 year old male and I am living with my male partner and we are both practicing Catholic’s. We are living together for a year now and we are both concerned about saving our souls, and decided to live and practice chastity for the rest of our lives together. We are totally align with the catholic church’s teaching on homosexuality, I mean we neither support nor encourages gay marriages and pro choice issues, and due to this we are getting the heat from our friends, relatives and neighbors and often accused of being hypocrites for being a gay couple and not supporting gay rights.
Our situation is like this, we live together , we both love each other very much, we are in a monogamous relationship, we practice our faith like receiving the sacraments like confession and the Eucharist, saying the rosary and divine mercy chaplet, devotion to the saints, we have sacramental like holy water and the scapular etc. But we are also both homosexual in a homosexual relationship, but we do abstain from sex and avoid occasion of sin as much as we can and God is the center of our lives. One thing though is I really love him very much and our relationship has gotten to that point where its not centered in sex which most homosexual relationships are, but its more on companionship and faith. Personality I cannot imagine to continue life without him, but I don’t want to go to hell either, and I am not sure if the chastity thing (like abstaining from sex and other sins of the flesh like masturbation, pornography etc.) would be enough to save us, or are we still condemned for eternal damnation when we die unless we both end the relationship and live on our separate ways? We are striving to avoid every mortal sin possible and stay in the state of grace as long as we can. I am having a hard time to find a compassionate ear about this, usually the things that I see is that we either separate or burn in hell irregardless if we are practicing chastity or not, the mere fact that we are in a homosexual relationship is wrong, immoral and would lead our souls to hellfire and we would see each other in hell. At this point though, I am very certain about myself and also about my partner that I would want to spend the rest of my days here on earth with him, to be separated from someone you love so much is like suicide.
Your enlightenment is much appreciated
Blessings on your continued journey as you embrace the cross of Christ.
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sipuf
Guest
I think you may have misunderstood. Some actions do feel good but that alone does not make them virtuous. It may feel good to seek revenge but revenge serves the mind’s purpose to harm, and harming is clearly a vice. The point I was trying to make is that if the body is being used as a vehicle to serve a virtuous purpose within the mind (e.g. nurturing love) then the act is morally good.
Now fornication is the most physically intimate act two people can share. It follows that this act should only be exercised when the couple has reached the threshold of intellectual/emotional intimacy. This threshold is reached when the couple marries. That is the partners avow, to themselves and God, that they will have an unvarying and ultimate commitment to their relationship with each other and God over and above all other relationships. Homosexuals are capable of making this same commitment but since many governments and the Catholic church do not recognize same sex marriage, this vow does not carry the title of “marriage” in society. However given the nature of vow the two homosexuals make to themselves and to God, I see no spiritual difference between this union and the union of a married heterosexual couple.
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sipuf
Guest
A point of clarification: This follows because sex before this threshold (i.e. before marriage) would be an action based on lust, not love. Acting based on the intentions of lust is a vice.
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MC_taters
Guest
Why should this man try to hide what he is?
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InSearchofGrace
Guest
There is wisdom in Mangy dog’s advice in this regard. Actually, with the decision of the OP and his friend to turn away from sin and work on saving their souls, he would not be really hiding a relationship that is now in the past. True, one does not stop having same sex attraction. However, there is a point in the effort of making (homo)sexual orientation no longer the front and center of one’s life.
If you have a chance of visiting Courage, the Catholic apostolate for homosexuals who wish to leave the lifestyle in favor of chastity, you would understand why self-identification as a homosexual validates that which dominates thoughts and behavior. There is no use in continuing to say ‘we’re a couple’ or ‘He is my partner’ when that is no longer the case.
Contrary to practicing homosexuals who celebrate their choice, there are many gays, who after living the lifestyle, have come to the realize that there is nothing gay about it and wish to leave it.
The OP seems sincere in wanting to make the change to be a practicing Catholic, in words and deed, in the eyes of God and the Church under which he belongs. For this, he deserves prayers and encouragement from his CAF brothers and sisters.
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schu2250
Guest
I would suggest that you get in contact with Courage. It is a Roman Catholic Apostolate for those who experience same-sex attraction and their families. Here is the link:
couragerc.net/
couragerc.net/
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schu2250
Guest
That is not what he is. He is a son of God. Homosexuality is not an identity. I found the following article very helpful in understanding this. We are all truly heterosexual.
cuf.org/Laywitness/Online_view.asp?lwID=2061
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ajbrt
Guest
first I must say that I think your honest with your self is tremendous their are alot of people out there whether in the church or outside of the church that can’t be honest with themselves so for you to go against a lifestyle that you identify with is tremendous. I think that you living with this guy in the terms you have described is not a sin in itself, it is possible that you can live a life of friendship and healthy devotion, however there is a certain amount of temptation that can be dangerous! Also you mention that your relationship was “based on companionship and faith unlike most homosexual relationship which are driven by sex” i am a little curious about this statement because i hear thing about this but don’t know much about homosexual relationships in general. Is many homosexual relationships (male) based many on sex? and if so why and to what degree?I’m 31 year old male and I am living with my male partner and we are both practicing Catholic’s. We are living together for a year now and we are both concerned about saving our souls, and decided to live and practice chastity for the rest of our lives together. We are totally align with the catholic church’s teaching on homosexuality, I mean we neither support nor encourages gay marriages and pro choice issues, and due to this we are getting the heat from our friends, relatives and neighbors and often accused of being hypocrites for being a gay couple and not supporting gay rights.
Our situation is like this, we live together , we both love each other very much, we are in a monogamous relationship, we practice our faith like receiving the sacraments like confession and the Eucharist, saying the rosary and divine mercy chaplet, devotion to the saints, we have sacramental like holy water and the scapular etc. But we are also both homosexual in a homosexual relationship, but we do abstain from sex and avoid occasion of sin as much as we can and God is the center of our lives. One thing though is I really love him very much and our relationship has gotten to that point where its not centered in sex which most homosexual relationships are, but its more on companionship and faith. Personality I cannot imagine to continue life without him, but I don’t want to go to hell either, and I am not sure if the chastity thing (like abstaining from sex and other sins of the flesh like masturbation, pornography etc.) would be enough to save us, or are we still condemned for eternal damnation when we die unless we both end the relationship and live on our separate ways? We are striving to avoid every mortal sin possible and stay in the state of grace as long as we can. I am having a hard time to find a compassionate ear about this, usually the things that I see is that we either separate or burn in hell irregardless if we are practicing chastity or not, the mere fact that we are in a homosexual relationship is wrong, immoral and would lead our souls to hellfire and we would see each other in hell. At this point though, I am very certain about myself and also about my partner that I would want to spend the rest of my days here on earth with him, to be separated from someone you love so much is like suicide.
Your enlightenment is much appreciated
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MC_taters
Guest
It seems pretty clear the OP does not want to live what you people call “the gay lifestyle.” So that is not an issue. However, saying that he is living with his best friend, and not his spiritual partner, seems to be avoiding how he really feels.
Heterosexual, according to Merriam-Webster is “of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward the opposite sex.” This man seems to not fall into that category, so how is he “truly” heterosexual.
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Madeline616
Guest
God Bless you, Soulhunter.
There are 2 books that I really think you will find helpful:
If I remember correctly, the author addresses the very issue of trying to live chastely with the man who was, previously, his sexual partner. I can’t comment on it, as I’m not sure just how strong an occasion of sin you are to each other, but this is a good Catholic book, and a quick and easy read.
God loves you!
There are 2 books that I really think you will find helpful:
- Beyond Gay, by David Morrison, a homosexual Catholic man who went through struggles similar to yours.
If I remember correctly, the author addresses the very issue of trying to live chastely with the man who was, previously, his sexual partner. I can’t comment on it, as I’m not sure just how strong an occasion of sin you are to each other, but this is a good Catholic book, and a quick and easy read.
- Father Benedict Groeschel’s book, The Courage to be Chaste, written for homosexual men desiring to live a chaste lifestyle.
God loves you!
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trials
Guest
Just wondering, if the OP could respond to those posts who are recommending that he end the living arrangements for the reasons stated:
- to avoid giving scandal (even if none is present)
- to avoid occasions of sin (as in putting temptation in your way 24/7)
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rockerchar
Guest
I am astounded that no one has raised attention to the fact that there are many who make the argument that homosexuality fits within Catholic teaching.
dignityusa.org/
Dignity USA is an organization that has not been mentioned even once in this discussion.
I exhort everyone to have more charity for people with same sex attractions and to get over the ignorance of heterocentrism.
Asking non-heterosexuals to pretend to be something their not is a sin. Namely scandal, in the sense that you are asking them to lie to themselves about their true sexual preference.
Homosexuality exists in many other species and it exists in humans. get over it. with all charity.
dignityusa.org/
Dignity USA is an organization that has not been mentioned even once in this discussion.
I exhort everyone to have more charity for people with same sex attractions and to get over the ignorance of heterocentrism.
Asking non-heterosexuals to pretend to be something their not is a sin. Namely scandal, in the sense that you are asking them to lie to themselves about their true sexual preference.
Homosexuality exists in many other species and it exists in humans. get over it. with all charity.
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InSearchofGrace
Guest
Your first sentence comes across as offended for what “we people” call “the gay lifestyle.” Recognizing that misunderstandings are common in an internet forum, let me explain that a lot of people including myself use it to refer to homosexuals who are living openly as couples, who are likely advocates of legalized gay ‘marriage’ and gay ‘parenting.’ Actually, homosexuals use the term too. It seems that this is another term that has layers of meaning depending on who is speaking in this culture disconnect.
As for the narrowed issue on how the OP should refer to himself, his ex-partner and the changed relationship, it would seem that the appropriate term would be one that reflects the decision of turning away from their homosexual relationship, that does not hang on to unnecessary sentimentalism. The word “friend” is a genuine description, one that does not deny love in the agape sense. Love is not just a feeling, it’s a decision. The OP seems open to practical suggestions and it is up to him in his current situation how to better effect a changed reality with appropriate language. To say he is living with his “spiritual partner” instead of the simpler “best friend” sounds like it invites questions or has to be explained further. I think the suggestion of other posters for the OP to seek alternative housing arrangements (perhaps near each other still but separate) is wise.
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InSearchofGrace
Guest
Dignity USAI am astounded that no one has raised attention to the fact that there are many who make the argument that homosexuality fits within Catholic teaching.
dignityusa.org/
Dignity USA is an organization that has not been mentioned even once in this discussion.
I exhort everyone to have more charity for people with same sex attractions and to get over the ignorance of heterocentrism.
Asking non-heterosexuals to pretend to be something their not is a sin. Namely scandal, in the sense that you are asking them to lie to themselves about their true sexual preference.
Homosexuality exists in many other species and it exists in humans. get over it. with all charity.
DignityUSA claims to work “for respect and justice for all gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender persons in the Catholic Church and the world through education, advocacy and support.” In reality, Dignity works aggressively to undermine the Church’s teachings on homosexuality. It is explicitly and publicly disobedient to both Church teachings and Church authority. This site, as well as the organization it represents, should be avoided.
Therefore, Dignity USA should NOT be offered to the OP, a Catholic who has expressed already he decided to live according to Church teachings.
Dignity USA claims to be Catholic but is in truth a dissenting organization, working against Catholic doctrine, advocating homosexual “rights,” including “marriage” within the Church. They form local chapters to provide “spiritual” support for practicing homosexuals who want to pursue full sacramental participation and ministerial duties. It is vehemently opposed to COURAGE, the homosexual support organization promoting abstinence.
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Elizabeth502
Guest
The only thing “astounding” is your level of understanding regarding authentic Catholic moral theology. “Get over it”? (Not a Catholic teaching.) Requiring that those with SSA refrain from acting out sexuality is “a sin”? (Not a Catholic teaching.)I am astounded that no one has raised attention to the fact that there are many who make the argument that homosexuality fits within Catholic teaching.
dignityusa.org/
Dignity USA is an organization that has not been mentioned even once in this discussion.
I exhort everyone to have more charity for people with same sex attractions and to get over the ignorance of heterocentrism.
Asking non-heterosexuals to pretend to be something their not is a sin. Namely scandal, in the sense that you are asking them to lie to themselves about their true sexual preference.
Homosexuality exists in many other species and it exists in humans. get over it. with all charity.
Catholic theology does in fact “ask” (demand) that those with SSA not indulge in “their true sexual preference.”
“The ignorance of heterocentrism”? God himself centered the human species toward heterosexuality. He is the author of heterocentrism.
Catholic moral theology and social theology requires compassion toward those with SSA, not permission from others or from themselves to act out their SSA.
Finally, InSearchofGrace is correct about the dissenting, non-theological activities and viewpoints of Dignity USA.
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Michael_Francis
Guest
Closed pending moderator review.
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