homosexual couple striving to save their souls...

[Ursus_luteolus]

Hello I am very similar to you, gay, around the same age, completely monogamous pro-life and could not imagine my life without my DH, but I am different in that I am an atheist and I make love to my DH. So I have very much the outsiders view so you can take my advice with a grain of salt. The first thing is that only the act of making love to your partner is the sin in your religion, it is not a sin to be gay. So right now you are good on paper. Now what I think would be the next worry is the occasion of sin. My opinion is the greater danger is not staying with him but leaving him. Right now you have a partner that supports you in your goal of chastity and you support his goal. Together you can face the dragon and slay it. Alone that dragon is so much more powerful. Also most human brains are wired for companionship, if you have a partner, most likely so is yours. Now if you remove this companion your brain is going to start searching for this lost support and the associated chemical messengers that is necessary for normal brain function and it can be greater than your higher functions. This search process can be very dark as it tries to fill the void. So work and grow together in the faith as brothers. Live a good life as best as you can.

On a side note, I wish you luck but at the same time I feel so much sadness for you. To fear the ones you love, is the strangest part of religion, a part I do not think I will ever understand.

 

[GRATEFULONEjim]

Hello I am very similar to you, gay, around the same age, completely monogamous pro-life and could not imagine my life without my DH, but I am different in that I am an atheist and I make love to my DH. So I have very much the outsiders view so you can take my advice with a grain of salt. The first thing is that only the act of making love to your partner is the sin in your religion, it is not a sin to be gay. So right now you are good on paper. Now what I think would be the next worry is the occasion of sin. My opinion is the greater danger is not staying with him but leaving him. Right now you have a partner that supports you in your goal of chastity and you support his goal. Together you can face the dragon and slay it. Alone that dragon is so much more powerful. Also most human brains are wired for companionship, if you have a partner, most likely so is yours. Now if you remove this companion your brain is going to start searching for this lost support and the associated chemical messengers that is necessary for normal brain function and it can be greater than your higher functions. This search process can be very dark as it tries to fill the void. So work and grow together in the faith as brothers. Live a good life as best as you can.

On a side note, I wish you luck but at the same time I feel so much sadness for you. To fear the ones you love, is the strangest part of religion, a part I do not think I will ever understand.

What fear are you speaking of? Making a strong, solid choice based on faith and love of God is not fear. It’s virtue! Their love for each other is on a level you will never be able to understand as long as you hide behind the guise of hedonism. These individual are not just “good on paper”. They are good in the eyes of God. To Catholics, that is the most important thing in life. Much more important than any lust filled desires could ever be. I believe your sadness is misguided. It is you for whom I will pray.

 

[crazzeto]

I’m 31 year old male and I am living with my male partner and we are both practicing Catholic’s. We are living together for a year now and we are both concerned about saving our souls, and decided to live and practice chastity for the rest of our lives together. We are totally align with the catholic church’s teaching on homosexuality, I mean we neither support nor encourages gay marriages and pro choice issues, and due to this we are getting the heat from our friends, relatives and neighbors and often accused of being hypocrites for being a gay couple and not supporting gay rights.

Our situation is like this, we live together , we both love each other very much, we are in a monogamous relationship, we practice our faith like receiving the sacraments like confession and the Eucharist, saying the rosary and divine mercy chaplet, devotion to the saints, we have sacramental like holy water and the scapular etc. But we are also both homosexual in a homosexual relationship, but we do abstain from sex and avoid occasion of sin as much as we can and God is the center of our lives. One thing though is I really love him very much and our relationship has gotten to that point where its not centered in sex which most homosexual relationships are, but its more on companionship and faith. Personality I cannot imagine to continue life without him, but I don’t want to go to hell either, and I am not sure if the chastity thing (like abstaining from sex and other sins of the flesh like masturbation, pornography etc.) would be enough to save us, or are we still condemned for eternal damnation when we die unless we both end the relationship and live on our separate ways? We are striving to avoid every mortal sin possible and stay in the state of grace as long as we can. I am having a hard time to find a compassionate ear about this, usually the things that I see is that we either separate or burn in hell irregardless if we are practicing chastity or not, the mere fact that we are in a homosexual relationship is wrong, immoral and would lead our souls to hellfire and we would see each other in hell. At this point though, I am very certain about myself and also about my partner that I would want to spend the rest of my days here on earth with him, to be separated from someone you love so much is like suicide.

Your enlightenment is much appreciated

Hello,

First of all let me tell you how gratifying it is to read about your situation with your (former) partner. So few people, gay or straight even attempt to live a Chaste life style, I know this is one area in my life where I have failed, far greater than you, and still struggle with.

The main problem I have with your soul is this, we’re now really entering the territory that only God him self can know. We’re talking about the disposition of your soul, and that’s something I just can’t answer. I will say this, the biggest concern would be how well you avoid the near occation of sin. Is living together (chastely) too much? I can’t answer that, all I can say is the safest solution (so to speak) is to not live together. But I can not presume to tell you what you must do at this point.

So with that said, I would suggest perhaps talking to a preist frankly and totally openly might help shed more light on this. In fact, I think the best thing for the two of you to do would see if you can get in touch with COURAGE, this is a Catholic apostolate catering to homosexuals trying to live for Christ. They would probably be your best resource.

God bless, and thank you so much for inspiring and encouraging the rest of us with the story of your struggles to live for Christ.

 

[Seatuck]

Others have done what you are trying to do.
Read Beyond Gay by David Morrison.

 

[Barbkw]

…I wish you luck but at the same time I feel so much sadness for you. To fear the ones you love, is the strangest part of religion, a part I do not think I will ever understand.

The practice of chastity is a freedom from; it is an exercise in the continuing love and acceptance of other people - independent of requirements that they (or you) fulfill sexual desires.

 

[michelleds]

You have to lend a dull ear to those who tell you to fall away from God. Same sex attraction is in itself not a sin. In essence you and your partner are living as two brothers would. Remain in a chaste relationship, continue to follow the teaching of the CC, partake in the Sacraments to stay in a state of grace. You have nothing to fear.

ditto.

I am female but live in similar circumstances. I have seen this referred to as “covenantal friendships” as you are basically creating a covenant with your friend that you will support one another as you grow in Christ. I have spoken extensively with my parish priest about this situation, about this living arrangement, and have his blessing. I am very careful to not cause scandal and no longer identify myself as “gay” or “in a relationship” or “partner”.

I recommend beginning to think of the other person as your best friend and brother, not the other words from your past.

My priest was quite wonderful in telling me that I am under no obligation to tell anyone anything about my personal life. but if it does come up, I simply tell people that I accept ALL of the Catholic Church’s teachings, believe that I am called to live a life of chastity, and that I live with my best friend who is like a sister to me. This does bring up interesting internal dialogues tho. Yesterday, we met new neighbors and the whole time we’re visiting I’m thinking about how to casually work into a conversation, “btw, we’re not gay, we’re Catholic, and we embrace everything the Church teaches 100%”. Not easy to wedge in between “do you have many snakes out here” and “where’s the closest post office”

I have had no problems with this arrangement or discussion except from a few less-than-rigid “practicing” Catholics who wanted me to know that one can pick and choose among the teachings!!! ack!

Please talk to your priest or find a good strong spiritual guide to talk to about these things. You are doing the right thing, the Godly thing, and I will pray for you.

 

[michelleds]

soulhunter, I also noticed a couple of other statements that I wanted to follow up on.

You mentioned wave after wave of temptations and finding yourself walking with your eyes down to avoid lust entering thru the eyes.

I have been battling these waves of images myself. I can say that frequent Sacraments (nearly daily Mass) as well as confession at least every 2 or 3 weeks has been very helpful. Also, whenever the tsunami comes, I say “satan get thee behind me” and plead the blood of Christ over myself as a cleansing and protection. This works and developing these habits will help you respond immediately at the first indication of images or feelings.

I have developed a certain understanding to why that one Saint threw himself in a bramble to halt the images and sensations of temptations!! Hopefully, I won’t be called to that extreme of an action!

I too have found walking with my eyes lowered is useful. If I’m not all gazing and gandering and gawping at the world, it’s easier to just let my thoughts go into quiet pray rather than think about all the things i don’t have, wish i had, want to have, blah blah blah.

 

[Stornoway]

Like others have said soulhunter, I have a huge amount of respect for you. God has a plan you and as long as you keep praying and you follow your conscience you will find the right path to go down. Remember that you are as God made you, that He will love you no matter what happens on this Earth and He will never leave your side.

God bless, I’ll keep you in my prayers

 

[GraceDK]

To OP.

I am very proud of you, brothers in Christ.
Know that He loves you!

I know how hard it is to stay pure… I am not married, not engaged, and don’t know if I will ever be, but I know that acting against the will of God leaves us just in darkness and it only satisfies for a moment.

Anyway, just wanted to throw in that I have read testimonies about reparative therapy and I definately think its worth looking into… without pressure, its all about figuring out where the ssa comes from and thus understanding oneself and taking control…

So I also recommend NARTH.com , and taking contact to them.

Peace and God bless you so much. You cool

 

[soulhunter182]

This is a good suggestion. Baptist minister Tony Campolo has proposed that such same sex couples make a formal covenant that they would live together in chastity and purity. It by no means is a marriage covenant. Its a covenant of purity. I’m not sure the Catholic Church would do something for you formally, so you and you’re partner can do so with each other and continue to go to confession frequently.

The Catholic group “Courage” is a good place to go, but there are some within the group that may discourage you from identifying as gay or push you towards reparative therapy, like you will find with NARTH. I personally think reparative therapy is a farce, so I cannot suggest you engage in it. Its not healthy to you spiritually.

Thanks, I will definitely check out courage, I read about reparative therapy a little bit and I’m just speaking for myself now based on my experience. I don’t think that reparative therapy will work for me though and I don’t believe that homosexuality is a mental disorder either. Although i know that there is no proof as of yet about the “gay gene”, and based on what I read so far is that homosexuality comes from the evil one and not from God. But ultimately what I believe is that God gave me this cross to bear, for what ever reason I do not know. My SSA started when I was very young, in highschool I think when I started feeling that I was different from my other male friends but I didn’t know what it was back then.

 

[soulhunter182]

Oh wow. I feel like I can hardly complain about my temptations when you’re faced with that every day! Your story is very humbling and inspiring. :bowdown2:

Thank you, and it’s also a really bad headache that keeps on coming back

 

[soulhunter182]

My opinion is the greater danger is not staying with him but leaving him. Right now you have a partner that supports you in your goal of chastity and you support his goal. Together you can face the dragon and slay it. Alone that dragon is so much more powerful. Also most human brains are wired for companionship, if you have a partner, most likely so is yours. Now if you remove this companion your brain is going to start searching for this lost support and the associated chemical messengers that is necessary for normal brain function and it can be greater than your higher functions.

Thank you for your reply. Believe it or not I happen to agree because I had been in that situation when we were separated. The main reason that we were successful is because we are together and we support each other on the same goal. And you’re right, when the dragon comes, sometimes it comes to us separately and sometimes it comes to us together we manage to slay t because we are together, when one of us falter, the other one is there to continue the fight. And it is true with what you say that the dragon is very powerful specially when you confront it alone, and often I lack the strength to resist it when I am by myself specially when it attacks your mind, alone I succumb easily, but together i feel we can defeat it for now through the grace of the Almighty. And its also true that when I was alone, I was searching for someone, a companion or a support group which would often led me to sin for finding the wrong ones.

I will include you in my prayers that one day, may you find God and come back to him.

 

[soulhunter182]

Hello,

First of all let me tell you how gratifying it is to read about your situation with your (former) partner. So few people, gay or straight even attempt to live a Chaste life style, I know this is one area in my life where I have failed, far greater than you, and still struggle with.

The main problem I have with your soul is this, we’re now really entering the territory that only God him self can know. We’re talking about the disposition of your soul, and that’s something I just can’t answer. I will say this, the biggest concern would be how well you avoid the near occation of sin. Is living together (chastely) too much? I can’t answer that, all I can say is the safest solution (so to speak) is to not live together. But I can not presume to tell you what you must do at this point.

So with that said, I would suggest perhaps talking to a preist frankly and totally openly might help shed more light on this. In fact, I think the best thing for the two of you to do would see if you can get in touch with COURAGE, this is a Catholic apostolate catering to homosexuals trying to live for Christ. They would probably be your best resource.

God bless, and thank you so much for inspiring and encouraging the rest of us with the story of your struggles to live for Christ.

Hi, Thank you for your reply. I have thought about that, about separating. And we had separated before, one thing that I found when we were separated is that I often fall not because of any sexual sin but because of sadness and discouragement. It was really bad specially when your alone and you have no one to pull you out, it has gotten to a point after my fall that I wanted to stay far away from God and hide from him (as if it was possible) and not go to confession because I feel that I am just being a hypocrite and was just fooling God, I felt that I had nothing to look forward to and there is not hope from that fact that the one that could make me happy is a sin against God and had temptations of suicide. Now a days, people just take sadness as an emotion and nothing more. but I had an experience with sadness as a temptation, and from which I believe is one of the most powerful temptations there are, more powerful than lust from which is easier to overcome than sadness.

 

[soulhunter182]

Others have done what you are trying to do.
Read Beyond Gay by David Morrison.

Thank you, I’ll definitely check it out

 

[yosemitejim]

Chastity is something that applies to us all. While I don’t claim to know how difficult this might be for a homosexual male, as a single, heterosexual male, I can view this from the perspective of whether or not I would live with a girlfriend. My answer would be a definite no. I spend enough time in confession without adding this extra burden on myself. I might also find it difficult to pray an Act of Contrition with any sincerity at all (i.e. “and to amend my life”). Am I really asking for forgiveness if I have no real intention of amending my life and not repeating the same sins? I would have to ask myself, “What positive steps am I taking to overcome the same temptations so I don’t repeat the same mistakes over and over again?” Likewise, are you sending your partner into confession for the same sins over and over again? True love includes a desire to help the person you love spend eternity with God in Heaven. Are you helping or are you an obstacle? These are serious questions we need to ask ourselves. Lastly, keep in mind that our time on Earth is very short compared to eternity and marriage as we know it doesn’t exist in Heaven. Are we placing temporal desires ahead of our desire to be with God in Heaven for all eternity?

 

[soulhunter182]

soulhunter, I also noticed a couple of other statements that I wanted to follow up on.

You mentioned wave after wave of temptations and finding yourself walking with your eyes down to avoid lust entering thru the eyes.

I have been battling these waves of images myself. I can say that frequent Sacraments (nearly daily Mass) as well as confession at least every 2 or 3 weeks has been very helpful. Also, whenever the tsunami comes, I say “satan get thee behind me” and plead the blood of Christ over myself as a cleansing and protection. This works and developing these habits will help you respond immediately at the first indication of images or feelings.

I have developed a certain understanding to why that one Saint threw himself in a bramble to halt the images and sensations of temptations!! Hopefully, I won’t be called to that extreme of an action!

I too have found walking with my eyes lowered is useful. If I’m not all gazing and gandering and gawping at the world, it’s easier to just let my thoughts go into quiet pray rather than think about all the things i don’t have, wish i had, want to have, blah blah blah.

That’s Great! I often find myself doing the same thing. When I see someone that I like or a picture or a poster I say, “for the love of Jesus…” and then I look at the other way. And when the image comes back, I say “Jesus come into my heart and kick the demon out, cover me with your precious blood and keep the demons at bay…” that one works for me.

Same here, I forgot the name of that saint though, sometimes its not always images or thoughts of sensual nature, sometimes its thoughts and feelings of regret.

Lemme just share with you one of my experience. I was eating a pretzel when walking home one day and then I saw this gay couple holding hands as they walked when they thought that no one was around, they broke it off when they heard me coming. And then suddenly I had this thought, "that is so nice, and I liked it and wanted it, what if I didn’t do this? Is this really worth it? Why am I punishing myself for giving into my natural inclinations? And then I felt Envy followed Sadness entered my heart and before I knew it I was playing a “Tape” in head of my past relationships and romantic things that we use to do and in my heart I am longing for it, I wanted it and I was willing to break the virtue with the “The Hell with it…” attitude, and I felt Hate enter my heart as well and started to “HATE” the catholic church and everything that it stood for…and then all of a sudden, I do not know if its my guardian angel or my conscience, another thought came into me…“God please save me…Have mercy on me…please do not cast me away…” I felt my heart broke(the feeling that you feel in your heart when you just broke up with someone) and tears fell from my eyes as I walked passed the couple who were starring at me cause I was crying. That moment seemed to me took forever to me but i was just a matter of minutes after I saw the couple. And then I realized that I just fell into the devil’s trap.

 

[JohnnyReb]

Thanks, I will definitely check out courage, I read about reparative therapy a little bit and I’m just speaking for myself now based on my experience. I don’t think that reparative therapy will work for me though and I don’t believe that homosexuality is a mental disorder either. Although i know that there is no proof as of yet about the “gay gene”, and based on what I read so far is that homosexuality comes from the evil one and not from God. But ultimately what I believe is that God gave me this cross to bear, for what ever reason I do not know. My SSA started when I was very young, in highschool I think when I started feeling that I was different from my other male friends but I didn’t know what it was back then.

I think you have a healthy view of it. Your experiences sound very similar to most LGBT people I know. I work in ministry with some members of LGBT community. Personally I do not like the terms homosexual (instead of LGBT) and saying things like “afflicted” or SSA. I know some people use SSA and thats fine. Those terms are just too clinical sounding to me. I also know the church says that homosexuality is disordered. I also believe that homosexuality, like many traits, is born of both nature and nurture (our experiences and environment). In other words, its not that God specifically “made you” that way.

My concern for people in your shoes is that you do not let guilt get the best of you for being attracted to the same sex, or let that have a negative impact on your faith in God. I admire the strides you are taking to walk in chastity and holiness. Blessings in your journey.

 

[crazzeto]

Hi, Thank you for your reply. I have thought about that, about separating. And we had separated before, one thing that I found when we were separated is that I often fall not because of any sexual sin but because of sadness and discouragement. It was really bad specially when your alone and you have no one to pull you out, it has gotten to a point after my fall that I wanted to stay far away from God and hide from him (as if it was possible) and not go to confession because I feel that I am just being a hypocrite and was just fooling God, I felt that I had nothing to look forward to and there is not hope from that fact that the one that could make me happy is a sin against God and had temptations of suicide. Now a days, people just take sadness as an emotion and nothing more. but I had an experience with sadness as a temptation, and from which I believe is one of the most powerful temptations there are, more powerful than lust from which is easier to overcome than sadness.

I think this is where the Rosary can be your friend, the evil one would want to keep you in a situation where the near occation of sin is more difficult to over come. Thanks be to God that he gave us his blessed mother, our blessed mother to be our advocate in the rosary. I know this prayer helped guide me when I was having similar issues being chaste (though not homosexual in nature).

I would pray with your friend, and I would make each petition a please for help in this regard.

I also have another thought on a less spiritual front. You say “moving away” depressed you. Have you thought of compramising some? Could that first step be the two of you moving… To a building that offers some real phsyical seperation, so you each have your own true living space, but is still connected? Somethign like a duplex? Something to think about if it’s managable. You might find this might be the first step you need to get the upper hand on the evil one.

 

[ClayPots47]

Your enlightenment is much appreciated

I admire your desire to live chastely, and not accept the gay lifestyle as the only option for you. David Morrison wrote Beyond Gay, which details his own journey from living in a gay relationship with a partner, to living in a chaste relationship with his former partner as friends. Click the link, go to the website, order a copy. I read this book many years ago; I think you will find it helpful. David is very involved with the Courage group, there is an online group as well as groups that meet in church’s. Some mentioned NARTH, I urge you to be very cautious regarding NARTH, it is a very controversial organization, and not all of Courage supports it. You are free to make use of it’s resources, but it’s okay if you choose not too.

Besides David Morrison, you have an example of a close male friendship in scripture, that of David and Jonathon. And there are many Courage members striving to live as friends in chaste same-sex friendships. The Listservs enable you to share your struggles with others who are struggling with the same issues. Sign up for the ones that interest you on the Courage website. No matter what you are struggling with, there is somebody out there who has had that same struggle, and can advise, empathize, and pray for you.

While fear of eternal damnation can motivate you to live according to God’s laws, the main reason you should have for living chastely, is that you love God so much, that you don’t want to offend Him in the least with sins of impurity. It’s imperative, that when you sin in a moment of weakness, that you make a perfect Act of Contrition, to cover you until you get to confession, which should be ASAP. If you are sincerely sorry, and repent of your sins out of love for God, and not fear of Hell; you will not be lost should you die before you can receive the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Get into the practice of doing this, and have a firm purpose of amendment to not offend God in the future. Read more HERE. Here is an article on How to Make an Act of Perfect Contrition

Finally, a) Don’t be afraid to talk to a priest regarding your situation. You might want to consider asking him for a blessing for a chaste and holy friendship. And b) Pray for a True Friendship yourself.

PRAYER FOR TRUE FRIENDSHIP

Jesus, loving companion of Your children,
You have extended Your friendship to all.
You opened Your arms without discrimination,
Offering Your warmth to those seeking comfort.
Endow me with the virtue of such a friendship,
To know, love and trust all on an equal basis;
To share my patronizing without favoritism,
And to be pleasant towards the destitute.
Fashion my heart to reflect Your qualities,
Those befitting of a cordial association.
Jesus, You showed me the way to true friendship:
Blessed is Your amazing and warm Person!

You might also like to add this prayer:

A PRAYER FOR PURITY

Jesus, Lover of chastity,
Mary, Mother most pure,
and Joseph, chaste guardian of the Virgin,
to you I come at this hour,
begging you to plead with God for me.
I earnestly wish to be pure in thought,
word and deed in imitation of your own holy purity.

Obtain for me, then,
a deep sense of modesty
which will be reflected in my external conduct.
Protect my eyes, the windows of my soul,
from anything that might dim the luster of a heart
that must mirror only Christlike purity.

And when the “Bread of Angels becomes the Bread of me”
in my heart at Holy Communion,
seal it forever against the suggestions of sinful pleasures.

Heart of Jesus, Fount of all purity,
have mercy on us.

 

[mexilad]

First, I suggest that you consult a good priest. Second, if what you are saying is correct, my understanding of our Catholic faith, you are doing pretty good. I actually know of at least one same sex couple living as you describe. I also recall hearing of hetrosexual couples repenting and living together but in chastity. So I think you are doing well. Having same sex attraction is not a sin anymore than me being a hetrosexual finding a woman attractive and desirable is a sin. How and if those drives are acted upon can be sinful however.

There is a ministry that deals with issues you talk about. It is called COURAGE. Check the web and see if they have aministry in your area. It could be quite helpful.

I will keep you both in my prayers. I find your commitment to the faith inspiring. May God bless you both.