Homosexual Episcopalian "Bishop" is Blasted

[mean_owen]

mercygate:

…When I started functioning out of logic rather than my ancient and deep anti-Catholic emotions…

Just for the record, I don’t harbor any anti-Catholic feelings. Heck, I married a Catholic. For that matter, I used to be one, too.

 

[mercygate]

GKC:

merycygate,

A not un-representative list. As for the Blessed Sacrament, A-Cs might have experienced Benedication, adoration of the Blessed Body, and might readily affirm Trent, Session XIII, Canon 1, while not objecting overly to Canon 2.

This, and all of what you list, may be found easily at my Anglican parish.

GKC

Anglicanus Catholicus

And probably devotion with the rosary as well (the Dominican version, not the “Anglican” novelty) . . .

 

[GKC]

mercygate:

And probably devotion with the rosary as well (the Dominican version, not the “Anglican” novelty) . . .

Generally amongst A-Cs, yes, but not at my parish. My daughter was the only one I knew to carry a rosary. OTOH, we do sing the Angelus after each Sunday Mass.

GKC

 

[SPOKENWORD]

This Bishop is going to be blasted when he comes before the Lord for judgement. He is going to be held to a higher standard because of his position. May God be mercyful on that day.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

mercygate:

And probably devotion with the rosary as well (the Dominican version, not the “Anglican” novelty) . . .

There’s an Anglican rosary ? How is it different from ours ? I know we have that Franciscan one: but I never think of that as a “real” rosary ​

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

GKC:

Generally amongst A-Cs, yes, but not at my parish. My daughter was the only one I knew to carry a rosary. OTOH, we do sing the Angelus after each Sunday Mass.

GKC

I’ll bet you have stoups and holy water and a rood screen too ​

I wish we still had archdeacons ##

 

[mercygate]

## I’ll bet you have stoups and holy water and a rood screen too

I wish we still had archdeacons ##

you do have archdeacons – do you mean subdeacons? and don’t forget vergers!

 

[GKC]

## I’ll bet you have stoups and holy water and a rood screen too

I wish we still had archdeacons ##

Stoops, yes, new ones replaced old ones recently. Holy water, yes, for all the usual purposes. A rood screen, no. The church building is too new. Was built about 10 years ago for our Continuing Anglican parish. Also got a tabernacle, centered on the Altar, which is against the far chancel wall. Celebration is exclusively* ad orientem*, of course. Communion rail. Kneelers.

I got a deacon son-in-law, if that helps.

GKC

 

[mean_owen]

## There’s an Anglican rosary ? How is it different from ours ? I know we have that Franciscan one: but I never think of that as a “real” rosary ##

Gottle- Here’s some info on the Anblican rosary: members.rogers.com/incense/anglican-prayer-beads.htm

And another set of non-marian prayers, but using the standard rosary:
ecumenicalrosary.org/default.htm

 

[StJeanneDArc]

Contarini:

St. Jeanne d’Arc,

Sorry for my oversenstive reaction. This is a conservative Catholic board and if I come here I shouldn’t expect otherwise. I appreciate your kindness and humility in responding as you have. I’m touchy these days because frankly I don’t think I can go on being an Anglican any longer (certainly not an Episcopalian, and with all due respect to GKC I’m not sure that any of the other Anglican options are live ones for me). Being the ornery sort of guy I am, I stick up for Anglicanism most stubbornly precisely at the point where I’ve more or less given up on it myself. I guess I figure on some level that this is causing me so much distress that smug Catholics have no business sounding off on it in what I often think are rather simplistic ways.

As for the Virginia analogy, my point is that in at least one Anglican view the Church really is rather like the Southern view of the U.S. I quite recognize that Catholics think otherwise–you are, so to speak, staunch Unionists. But in Anglican self-identity the “particular church” remains itself whether it is part of a larger whole or not, which is not to say that being part of the larger whole is unimportant. I don’t expect Catholics to agree–I’m simply saying that you won’t get very far with Anglicans saying things like “Henry VIII founded your church.” You will get much further if you press us on whether we have legitimate reasons for remaining out of communion with Rome; or whether we have any ground for expecting national churches to listen to the Lambeth Conference when we refused to listen to the Council of Trent (or for that matter a number of previous councils from II Nicea to Florence, even though some of us see ourselves as bound by at least some of those); or whether the Nicene Creed to which we hold so firmly (take or leave the odd heretical bishop) would ever have been adopted if the early Church had acted by Anglican principles. These, at least for me, are the really troubling issues.

In Christ,

Edwin

Dear Edwin,
Thank you for your kindness and humility. I have 2 stories that may be of interest to you.
Several years ago in Houston an Episcopalian priest and most of his parish “crossed over” and became Catholic. He is now a Catholic priest (I’m not sure of the details of his ordination or re-ordination) with a parish that is in communion with Rome and celebrates an Anglican-rite Mass. I’ve never had the opportunity to attend one of these Masses, but two parishioners that I know well (both cradle Catholics) have told me that it is absolutely beautiful.
More recently I attended a wedding officated by an Episcopalian priest in Atlanta. He gave a beautiful homily including a lot of theology about marriage. His theology was so Catholic that had I not known beforehand I probably would have mistaken him for a Catholic priest. At the reception I complimented him on the beautiful homily. His reponse to me was that he felt obligated to preach on marriage because of the scandal of Bishop Robinson and because Henry VIII founded his church based on a desire to divorce. I was so impressed with his humility that I mentioned the Episcopal become Catholic priest situation to him. He seemed sort of wistful and made a comment to the effect of “if not for celibacy…” I might be making more of this than was actually there, but it really got me thinking that there may be more people out there who are hanging on to the Episcopal Church out of habit rather than real conviction.

 

[GKC]

mean_owen:

Gottle- Here’s some info on the Anblican rosary: members.rogers.com/incense/anglican-prayer-beads.htm

And another set of non-marian prayers, but using the standard rosary:
ecumenicalrosary.org/default.htm

And it seems that the Druidess/Anglican Priestess-Druid/Anglican Priest couple involved in the Pagan Goddess Liturgy thread, also wrote (among other syncretic stuff) a rosary of sorts for Anglican Druids, or something. See here:

ecumenicalinsanity.net/

Scroll down to an entry on 27 Oct, titled “Keep looking, keep finding.”

This is only the tip of the iceberg. These 2 have been way off the ranch for a long time, it seems.

GKC

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

mercygate:

you do have archdeacons – do you mean subdeacons? and don’t forget vergers!

No, I mean “archdeacons” - IIRC, the position was abolished during the Catholic Reformation. The Church of England, not being RC, retained them.​

I’ve never seen a RC verger - I don’t even know that they exist. Subdeacons were sort of abolished by Paul VI in 1972; but they officiate at the 1962 Mass, if enough sacred ministers are required.

I miss the Anglican hymns in “Hymns Ancient and Modern” (1906 edition, natch) & “The English Hymnal” - and the BCP.

RC hymns are dire ##

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

mean_owen:

Gottle- Here’s some info on the Anblican rosary: members.rogers.com/incense/anglican-prayer-beads.htm

And another set of non-marian prayers, but using the standard rosary:
ecumenicalrosary.org/default.htm

Thanks ​

The APBs have as many beads as a tasbih, but are differently arranged: a tasbih has three beads, then three decades. So you Anglicans could use your APBs to recite the Ninety-Nine Beautiful Names of Allah

desertstore.com/For-Sale-Directory/Tasbih-Sabha-Prayer-Beads.html

farsinet.com/tasbih/page1.html - with clickable picture

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

GKC:

And it seems that the Druidess/Anglican Priestess-Druid/Anglican Priest couple involved in the Pagan Goddess Liturgy thread, also wrote (among other syncretic stuff) a rosary of sorts for Anglican Druids, or something. See here:

ecumenicalinsanity.net/

Scroll down to an entry on 27 Oct, titled “Keep looking, keep finding.”

This is only the tip of the iceberg. These 2 have been way off the ranch for a long time, it seems.

GKC

It’s no battier than some of the stuff that emanates (the choice of word is deliberate) from some of the Patriarchy-haters in the covens - sorry, convents - of the RCC; one thinks here of Starhawk and her sisters.​

And there is some good stuff mixed with the silliness: God does love unconditionally, after all. Sometimes one wishes He did not - as C.S. Lewis pointed out.

I don’t quite trust the women’s ordination people - because they seem to think only of rights and equality. This is partly the fault of the magisterium, for not emphasising that the priesthood has nothing to with privilege and everything to do with taking up, and living, the life of Christ Crucified. The pagans in the Church are from one POV a sort of cult in the making, an “unpaid bill of the Church”. The unbalanced and hypertrophied over-emphasis on Our Lady may have contributed as well. ##

 

[GKC]

“I don’t quite trust the women’s ordination people - because they seem to think only of rights and equality. This is partly the fault of the magisterium, for not emphasising that the priesthood has nothing to with privilege and everything to do with taking up, and living, the life of Christ Crucified. The pagans in the Church are from one POV a sort of cult in the making, an “unpaid bill of the Church”. The unbalanced and hypertrophied over-emphasis on Our Lady may have contributed as well. ##”

I don’t trust them at all. IMO, there is a moderately straight line from the females in collars to the Goddess mentality. The
*alter Christus * becomes the alter Christa.. The (declared) patriarchal discrimination against the female is generalized to the “female” aspect of the deity and thence to “female deity” in general. All of which must be corrected.

I’d see the emphasis on the BVM as counter weight to all this, personally. Can you really imagine someone with a devotion to the BVM walking *this * path.

And now for something not completely different:

Have you heard anything on your side of the pond about folks buying up land around Glastonbury?

GKC

 

[Writer]

We left our local Episcopal Church when this crises hit. Stayed on the sinking ship for a long time writing letters and speaking out against the ordination of Robinson. I even wrote him a letter directly, but there was no response of any kind. *Christianity Today *graciously printed a letter to the editor of mine on this topic, as well. One of the things I pointed out in that letter was the fallacy to say that it was the Holy Spirit that directed the Episcopal Church leadership to overturn tradition and ignore the Biblical teachings in favor of embracing the misdirected whims of modern culture and moral relativism. The Holy Spirit will never contradict what God made so clear in the Bible, otherwise we might as well believe in a polythiestic universe.

To make a long story short, my wife, children, and I are in RCIA classes now to become part of the Catholic Church. My in-laws have also made the same move (actually they led the way). We are thankful that we have such a wonderful church to learn and grow in. Everything from the music to the homilies are wonderful where we are. Only wish we’d known sooner!

On another note, keep the Anglican Communion in your prayers. Orthodox Episcopalians such as David Virtue are trying to bring about possitive change in the Episcopal Church, but I am afraid that it is too late to save this “withering limb” of the church. I also am aware of at least one Episcopal priest who was willing to consider the possibility of fording across the Tiber to find his real spiritual home.

 

[mkellogg]

>>>
You know I think those responsible for Robinson’s appointment are stunned and shocked at the response. At least in the US the Episcopal Church is seen as extremely liberal and may well be of the mind that this was a non-event.

I still maintain that Mr Robinson is showing a lot of hubris in thinking this appointment was worth possibly destroying his church.

I remember watching the ceremony where everyone voted on Robinson’s election and how defiant they all were about the whole thing. I doubt highly that they’re surprised by any of the reaction today.

As far as Robinson himself is concerned, married and divorced, two children, an openly homosexual relationship while acting as shepherd of a flock, it’s just reprehensible. Yet, in an interview on 60 Minutes, he was utterly unrepentant about any of it, and believed 100% that he was in the right and the rest of the church was in the wrong. I was blown away by his attitude, especially given the gravity of the whole controversy and the potential ramifications to his church.

-mk