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Dale_M
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I think opposing prostitution on moral grounds is quite warranted e.g. the exploitation of others.
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Leegal
Guest
Prostitution is not a victimless crime.
See the link. Prostitution is not really a “choice.” Many women are forced into prostitution and sex clubs. To legalize prostitution would be to say that’s it’s okay to traffic in women to the detriment of women and to handing over power to men.
The concept that there’s a difference between “free” choice and forced prostitution is meaningless to those who are being victimized. And the men don’t care either.
Calling it something else and legalizing it will not stop the violence against women.
The woman’s body belongs to her. To legalize prostitution would to be, in effect, telling the woman that she does not have right to her body, but that men do.
Prostutition is the extreme form of discrimination when it puts the power in the hands of the trafficers and the men who use the women, because it make the women a commodity – not an equal.
uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/mhvlegal.htm
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Nate13
Guest
Isn’t all premarital sex also exploitation of some sort?
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Dale_M
Guest
Is it?
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Nate13
Guest
I’m sure there are many horror stories, but that is not the whole story of prostitution. It would be like writing off homosexuals as all being pedophiles and people who take advantage of each other for sex. Some people truly enjoy sex and like to make a living from it. (I’m playing devil’s advocate here). As someone else mentioned John Stossel had a segment on todays showing exactly that.
I’m sure some women get married because they feel they have no other choice, but we don’t make marriage illegal do we?
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Nate13
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Talking morally I would say yes in principle it is. Its fundamentally counter to the purpose of sex and marriage and inherently is use of another person regardless of intent. I would argue that same thing though for homosexual acts though as well. I assume by exploitation you were referring to when one human being “uses” another correct?
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SteveGC
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I think exploitation infers unfair treatment, and most premarital sex would not fit that category.
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Nate13
Guest
Look up exploit. Exploit has a negative connotation to it, but its a synonym of “use” or “utilize”. By definition though exploit does not infer an intent to the act. It simply describes the circumstances.
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Leegal
Guest
The law would not say so. Exploitation assumes profit or an unjust benefit or an unfair advantage.
Prostitution would fall under that category – but not premarital sex between two people who consent, and are of the age (or mind) to consent, according to the law.
Rape and child exploitation would qualify, but the other examples apply. Sex with a mentally retarded person who could not form consent would be rape and exploitation of the individual.
**Taking something off a person or a group that rightfully belongs to them
Short-changing people in trade
Directly or indirectly forcing somebody to work
Using somebody against his will, or without his consent or knowledge
Imposing an arbitrary differential treatment of people to the advantage of some and the disadvantage of others (as in ascriptive discrimination)
Using somebody to buy/provide things for you and never paying them back.**
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Nate13
Guest
Which of these does prostitution fall under by definition? I see some that could apply at times, but nothing that applies inherently.
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Leegal
Guest
I was responding to your question as to whether pre-marital sex was exploitation. It would not, providing rape was not involved.
However, I would say these two can cover prostitution as exploitation of women.
Directly or indirectly forcing somebody to work
Using somebody against his will, or without his consent or knowledge
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Dale_M
Guest
By "exploitation, I mean using another person to their detriment and without regard for their welfare.
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Nate13
Guest
Many prostitutes make more than engineers. If paying well is indirectly forcing someone to work then a lot of people are being exploited. As long as a prostitute is being paid a reasonable wage for her services there would be no exploitation. If it was legal you could better set wages to make sure they received a just wage. Even if being a prostitute is a decision brought upon by economic distress, how is that different that someone who ends up a garbage man because of hard luck? That person may not want to be a garbage man anymore than a woman wants to be a prostitute but as long as they are both paid a fair wage there is no exploitation is there?
Obviously if such was occurring it would be illegal. Your assuming of course that all prostitutes are being used against their will or without their consent which is not true. You could actually use this as an argument for making prostitution legal since you could make sure that those who wished to provide the service freely were able to do so, and could crack down on those making women do so against their will much more easily.
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Nate13
Guest
Who are you to determine “detriment”. I think homosexual persons are using each other to their “detriment”. And without regard for their welfare? Some prostitutes are probably bringing home double or three times what you are and are not disregarding their welfare anymore than any other sexually active adult is. The whole society surrounding prostitution could be bad for their welfare but that is all the more reason to support legalizing it to clean it all up.
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Leegal
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I’m sure people truly enjoy sex. I’m positive that the women who resort to prostitution do NOT do it out of true enjoyment of sex and love of men. In fact, I think most studies would say that there are many other reasons why women go into prostitution that have absolutely nothing to do with enjoying sex, or even liking the men.
I’m not sure where you are going with comment that some people believe marriage is their only choice, or what it means in the context of your topic. I fail to see the analogy.
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Nate13
Guest
Who said sex has to be about love? Why can a man employ his arms in the workforce even though he may not enjoy digging ditches all day, but a woman can’t employ other parts of her body even if she doesn’t always enjoy it? Can I only put my body to service if I enjoy it? It seems you are making a natural law argument here in connecting love to sex, in which case I would assume a natural law argument would be fine in the case of homosexual marriages?
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Dale_M
Guest
The exploitation in prostitution comes from persons who force another person to prostitute themselves and reap most of the financial benefits. Granted, there are some individuals who (for a few years) make good money as a prostitute as their own business choice. However, those individuals seem to be a small minority and even legalizing the trade doesn’t eliminate the problem of exploitation.
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Nate13
Guest
I see well monogamous homosexual couples who actually adopt kids seem to be the minority so we should make sure homosexual marriage remains illegal as well…
Prostitution is not inherently exploitation thus you cannot make it inherently illegal on that basis.
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Semper_Zelare
Guest
Wow 36 replies with less than 400 views… I wish that could happen in the **Vocations forum, or the Evangelization forum. Sometimes there will be threads on there with 400 views and 3 replies.
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If only we Catholics cared more about stuff like that than debating the controversial things. Our Church isn’t lacking a sound position on gay marriage or prostitution. It’s lacking in vocations and evangelism. We’re called to a New Evangelization.
And, I don’t think winning gay-marriage debates with people is going to help us much
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If only we Catholics cared more about stuff like that than debating the controversial things. Our Church isn’t lacking a sound position on gay marriage or prostitution. It’s lacking in vocations and evangelism. We’re called to a New Evangelization.
And, I don’t think winning gay-marriage debates with people is going to help us much
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Nate13
Guest
I’m trying to get people to realize that the legalization of gay marriage is a moral issue and some of us just like to debate
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