"homosexual person" myth or Truth

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Stealing and gossiping are sins, while having a homosexual orientation is not. It’s simply an adjective that indicates what sex an individual is attracted to. …]
The homosexual orientation is evil. So is the promiscuous orientation (that precedes fornication), so is the envious orientation (that precedes stealing), so is the detraction orientation (that precedes gossiping), etc.

These desires or appetites are disordered, that is they are unnatural. One ought to detach themselves from them.
 
I understand that a number of people would like me to go away and not bother them…
Since it seems this has been debated several times already, what outcome would give you peace?
If you don’t agree with the Church or it’s language and are unable to do anything about it, what would you like to accomplish?

Is it possible, after all the references people will provide you, that changing your own conceptions is worth examining? Is it possible?
 
The homosexual orientation is evil. So is the promiscuous orientation (that precedes fornication), so is the envious orientation (that precedes stealing), so is the detraction orientation (that precedes gossiping), etc.

These desires or appetites are disordered, that is they are unnatural. One ought to detach themselves from them.
I think you need to read the Catechism, friend. Homosexual acts are sinful; having a homosexual orientation is not.
 
I think you need to read the Catechism, friend. Homosexual acts are sinful; having a homosexual orientation is not.
Do you have a particular paragraph(s) of the CCC that you think supports your idea that a sinful orientation is permissible?
 
Do you have a particular paragraph(s) of the CCC that you think supports your idea that a sinful orientation is permissible?
Not sure what your getting at.

At one point you use the term evil. Then now sinful.

And now the term permissible.

More could be useful for clarity.
 
not all evils are imputable sins 😉
evil is still evil, disorder is still disorder.
Correct.

A tendency toward theft -that is resisted and acted against can even become virtue.

Despite the presence of the that disordered desire that is not willed.
 
Do you have a particular paragraph(s) of the CCC that you think supports your idea that a sinful orientation is permissible?
Well, permissible or not, they can’t change it. I suppose that means their whole existence is a sin. In paragraph 2358, the Catechism describes the homosexual orientation as “disordered,” but never says that it is a sin unto itself.
 
OP, I think that the Catechism is offering the correct and wise teaching here.

There is no question that there are many persons with SSA, even though they are a small percentage of the population. The Catechism could have said “persons with SSA” instead of “homosexual persons,” but what difference would that really make?
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
 
OP, I think that the Catechism is offering the correct and wise teaching here.

There is no question that there are many persons with SSA, even though they are a small percentage of the population. The Catechism could have said “persons with SSA” instead of “homosexual persons,” but what difference would that really make?
Yes the OP is over estimating the meaning of the phrase. Putting more into it then is there. Hence their difficulty.
 
What spectrum? Can you explain that? Male and female he created them. The Biology of our bodies is designed for procreation.

Ed
I guess the term sexuality was not a very good use for what I meant. I meant sexual attraction.
 
Well, permissible or not, they can’t change it. I suppose that means their whole existence is a sin.
Whether or not orientation is malleable is researched and debated by scientists. There is varying opinion. I wouldn’t pretend to know.

If a person has a disordered desire or orientation, that does not “mean their whole existence is a sin”. Christ has victory over sin, so your conclusion does not follow.
In paragraph 2358, the Catechism describes the homosexual orientation as “disordered,” but never says that it is a sin unto itself.
👍
Sin is an act.
Might be an invisible act of the will, but it is a human act.
Human acts can be evaluated. That’s what morality is, the evaluation of human acts.

There are factors which determine morality and go to sinfulness.
 
Well, permissible or not, they can’t change it. I suppose that means their whole existence is a sin. In paragraph 2358, the Catechism describes the homosexual orientation as “disordered,” but never says that it is a sin unto itself.
With God’s grace, they can change. The homosexual is no more lost than the kleptomaniac or the glutton. We do them a disservice if we confirm them in their disorders.

2358 …] This [homosexual] inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. …].

2514 St. John distinguishes three kinds of covetousness or concupiscence: lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, and pride of life. In the Catholic catechetical tradition, the ninth commandment forbids carnal concupiscence; the tenth forbids coveting another’s goods.

Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity (Romans 1:26-27).
Clear to me. The Homosexual inclination (passion) is “lust.” It is the same passion that moves the adulterer and the fornicator to engage in illicit sex. The ninth commandment forbids lust of any kind.

St. Paul tells us that the homosexual disposition is both “unnatural” and “degrading.” As such, this concupiscible disordered appetite is to be subordinated to reason and will. As with all evil inclinations; prayer, mortification and penance are the prescriptive cures.

We all have crosses and life is a trail. Should those whose cross is the homosexual inclination as those who bear the crosses of adulterer inclination and fornicator inclination not work to rid themselves of their evil inclinations? Is not the homosexual lust as is the adulterer’s lust a sin? How is homosexual lust categorically different than the adulterer’s lust which Christ taught is sin in itself?
 
With God’s grace, they can change. The homosexual is no more lost than the kleptomaniac or the glutton. We do them a disservice if we confirm them in their disorders.

2358 …] This [homosexual] inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. …].

2514 St. John distinguishes three kinds of covetousness or concupiscence: lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, and pride of life. In the Catholic catechetical tradition, the ninth commandment forbids carnal concupiscence; the tenth forbids coveting another’s goods.

Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity (Romans 1:26-27).
Clear to me. The Homosexual inclination (passion) is “lust.” It is the same passion that moves the adulterer and the fornicator to engage in illicit sex. The ninth commandment forbids lust of any kind.

St. Paul tells us that the homosexual disposition is both “unnatural” and “degrading.” As such, this concupiscible disordered appetite is to be subordinated to reason and will. As with all evil inclinations; prayer, mortification and penance are the prescriptive cures.

We all have crosses and life is a trail. Should those whose cross is the homosexual inclination as those who bear the crosses of adulterer inclination and fornicator inclination not work to rid themselves of their evil inclinations? Is not the homosexual lust as is the adulterer’s lust a sin? How is homosexual lust categorically different than the adulterer’s lust which Christ taught is sin in itself?
This sense of the word lust is an action.
It is a temptation put into choice and acted on.

“lust” should not be confused with temptation or orientation.
 
This sense of the word lust is an action.
An evil thought un-willed is never a sin.
It is a temptation put into choice and acted on.
The evil thought enters our imagination. We are culpable for such evil thoughts iff our choices put us into situations which promote just such evil thoughts. If one frequents persons or places likely to induce evil thoughts then one needs to examine their conscience carefully.
“lust” should not be confused with temptation or orientation.
Lust should not be confused as “non-sinful.”
 
An evil thought un-willed is never a sin.

The evil thought enters our imagination. We are culpable for such evil thoughts iff our choices put us into situations which promote just such evil thoughts. If one frequents persons or places likely to induce evil thoughts then one needs to examine their conscience carefully.

Lust should not be confused as “non-sinful.”
Ok, well we are going in circles so…🤷
 
The teaching of the Church about homosexual persons in the sense of same-sex attracted persons and its differentiation between SSA people and same-sex behavior (the latter being interpreted by some as sinful but not the former) is not something new. Both concepts and the differentiation between attraction and behavior are already present within Judaism, in the Written Torah and the Oral Torah. There is no mystery or fabrication with regard to these ideas, and the Church agrees with Jewish teaching concerning them.
 
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