"homosexual person" myth or Truth

[Bookcat]

Ok, well we are going in circles so…

Lust could be taken in a few senses.

Both in the sense of “desire” that is not wanted…not consented to…but which “happens” to one.

As well as in the sense involving the will …consent - thus sinful.

 

[jjr9]

Whether or not a person can be predisposed towards SSA is not something for the Church to decide. That’s a scientific question. What the Church can rule on is the morality of homosexual actions.

I think the Church recognizes that recent science does indicate it can be an inherited predisposition and has no issue with that. I don’t believe the Magisterium has formally declared the science right or wrong, it’s just speaking on the morality and culpability of persons given the best consensus we have on the subject right now.

Can you cite what “recent science does indicate it(exclusive SSA?) can be an inherited predisposition” ?

God bless

 

[goout]

Lust could be taken in a few senses.

Both in the sense of “desire” that is not wanted…not consented to…but which “happens” to one.

As well as in the sense involving the will …consent - thus sinful.

I was commenting on the sense I thought milly used.

 

[o_mlly]

I was commenting on [lust in] the sense I thought milly used.

To be clear, the only “sense” to refer to lust as I did is as one of the seven deadly sins.

 

[goout]

To be clear, the only “sense” to refer to lust as I did is as one of the seven deadly sins.

right

 

[Bookcat]

To be clear, the only “sense” to refer to lust as I did is as one of the seven deadly sins.

Fine.

And such could be taken in a few senses.

Both in the sense of “desire” that is not wanted…not consented to…but which “happens” to one.

As well as in the sense involving the will …consent - thus sinful.

The Church would note that the disordered tendency is not per se a sin. Such may be present …may be ‘happening’ to one against ones will…without any sin.

But this is all getting off topic somewhat.

 

[Thorolfr]

The evil thought enters our imagination. We are culpable for such evil thoughts iff our choices put us into situations which promote just such evil thoughts. If one frequents persons or places likely to induce evil thoughts then one needs to examine their conscience carefully.

Using your reasoning, no heterosexual man should ever allow himself to be in the presence of a beautiful woman who is not his wife. An evil thought might enter his mind completely unbidden. Maybe we should have veiling for women in Christian countries as well.

As for men with same-sex attraction, they should probably avoid ever being in the presence of a good looking man.

 

[kozlosap]

Using your reasoning, no heterosexual man should ever allow himself to be in the presence of a beautiful woman who is not his wife. An evil thought might enter his mind completely unbidden. Maybe we should have veiling for women in Christian countries as well.

As for men with same-sex attraction, they should probably avoid ever being in the presence of a good looking man.

Agreed! I can’t even imagine looking at day to day life where I’m worried that I might see a hunky man and have an (name removed by moderator)ure thought. No, the thought police went out with 1984, hopefully!

 

[goout]

Using your reasoning, no heterosexual man should ever allow himself to be in the presence of a beautiful woman who is not his wife. An evil thought might enter his mind completely unbidden. Maybe we should have veiling for women in Christian countries as well.

As for men with same-sex attraction, they should probably avoid ever being in the presence of a good looking man.

There is a difference between living your life normally and looking for trouble. Surely the distinction is not difficult to see.

 

[o_mlly]

Fine.
And such could be taken in a few senses.

No. Only one sense applies to lust. Lust is always sinful.

Both in the sense of “desire” that is not wanted…not consented to…but which “happens” to one.

The inclination to illicit sex is not lust. Lust is never an “unwanted desire.” Lust, unlike sexual temptation, does not just “happen” to one. Lust is always willed.

As well as in the sense involving the will …consent - thus sinful.

Lust only and always follows from consent.

The Church would note that the disordered tendency is not per se a sin. Such may be present …may be ‘happening’ to one against ones will…without any sin…

Lust is not a “tendency.” Lust is the vehement disorder of sexual desires. One who has allowed oneself to become vehemently disordered in their sexual desires is in a state of objective sin.

 

[o_mlly]

Using your reasoning, no heterosexual man should ever allow himself to be in the presence of a beautiful woman who is not his wife. An evil thought might enter his mind completely unbidden. Maybe we should have veiling for women in Christian countries as well.

As for men with same-sex attraction, they should probably avoid ever being in the presence of a good looking man.

Silly. Grace enables the free will to choose the good, that is to see the beauty of another as reflecting the beauty of God, the joy of man’s desire, instead of a creature who can satisfy our illicit desires.

 

[Bookcat]

No. Only one sense applies to lust. Lust is always sinful.

.

No.

As already noted.

 

[Bookcat]

The inclination to illicit sex is not lust. Lust is never an “unwanted desire.”

Hum…

Father I have been struggling with temptations to lust…what should I do to continue not consenting to such lust.

Yes it can refer to unwanted desire.

 

[Bookcat]

Lust only and always follows from consent.

.

See above.

 

[Bookcat]

Lust is not a “tendency.”

A person can have a “tendency” towards lust…or greed …or anger etc

Lust is the vehement disorder of sexual desires.

One does not need that word “vehement”. It need not be such.

But yes it is disordered desire for or the inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure.

(see CCC 2351)

 

[DERMOTRE]

I have slowly discerned over many years * that homosexuality and other sexual perversions have their roots in Original Sin. Let me state I am a heterosexual man, married for almost 40 years with 4 children [and 3 grandchildren…they are great but I’m biased and I love them with all my heart]. There is in my opinion an incredible complex relationship between body and soul and consequently in human sexuality. God created them Male and Female and this complementarity is designed for procreation. The “Fall” of Adam and Eve has injured this complementary link of male and female but has not completely destroyed it. Satan is working very hard in these end times to destroy “Life” as he cannot bear God’s Love for humanity in sending Jesus [2nd person in the Holy Trinity] to redeem humanity. We must never cause unjust discrimination or harm to homosexual persons but must nevertheless stand firm in the Truth of the Church. Homosexual persons needless to say find this teaching very difficult to understand and they need our prayers. Jesus through the Holy Spirit can bring conversion to any heart who seeks Him out. “Ask and you shall receive, seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be opened to you”*

 

[Thorolfr]

Clear to me. The Homosexual inclination (passion) is “lust.” It is the same passion that moves the adulterer and the fornicator to engage in illicit sex. The ninth commandment forbids lust of any kind.

Lust is never an “unwanted desire.” Lust, unlike sexual temptation, does not just “happen” to one. Lust is always willed.

It is ridiculous to suggest that the many gay people who have struggled with same-sex attraction had a “wanted” or “willed” desire that is nothing more than “lust”. If such people wanted and willed these desires which they have often experienced from the age of 11 or 12, why would many of them have bothered to go to ex-gay organizations to try and make themselves straight?

 

[Bookcat]

The Church would note that the disordered tendency is not per se a sin. Such may be present …may be ‘happening’ to one against ones will…without any sin.

But this is all getting off topic somewhat.

 

[edwest2]

There is a difference between living your life normally and looking for trouble. Surely the distinction is not difficult to see.

In our media hypersexualized culture, women and men are taught, directly and indirectly, how to behave around each other. It’s all about sex, sex, sex… and sex.

Self-restraint? What’s that? You can’t control yourself. That’s why we see so much casual sex in movies and on TV. I wasn’t raised that way. You can look at a beautiful woman but there’s a line you do not cross. And homosexual interactions are portrayed with a sexual component of some kind.

2 Corinthians 10:5

New International Version
We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

New Living Translation
We destroy every proud obstacle that keeps people from knowing God. We capture their rebellious thoughts and teach them to obey Christ.

English Standard Version
We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ,

Ed

 

[on_the_hill]

In our media hypersexualized culture, women and men are taught, directly and indirectly, how to behave around each other. It’s all about sex, sex, sex… and sex.

You forgot that it’s also about sex.