Homosexual Relationships

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It shouldn’t. However, some people here try to engage in hermenutical acrobatics in order to avoid the fact that Scripture condemns homosexuality.
Scripture has no place in law in this country. God is mentioned nowhere in the constitution, this was intentional by the founders, several of which were heretical deists, not even christian.

Caesar(Government) and God(s) must be kept separate, the Roman Empire commingled them and see how they ended up.
 
It shouldn’t. However, some people here try to engage in hermenutical acrobatics in order to avoid the fact that Scripture condemns homosexuality.
Hopefully we all remember, that although scripture condemns homosexual “acts”, it doesn’t mean the person having homosexual tendencies is condemned. 🙂 PEACE.

1 Corinthians 13:1-2 “If I speak in human and angelic tongues but do not have love, I am a resounding gong or a clashing cymbal. And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing.”
 
People who say that everyone should be able to love someone however they want are those who do not want to do God’s will but want God to bend to their will. They are only willing to accept God on their terms.
God, through Scripture, has made it perfectly clear (no ambiguity) that those who engage in homosexual activity (i.e. sexual relationships between same gender) will NOT get into Heaven.

Lev 18:22,29
You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; such a thing is an abomination.
Everyone who does any of these abominations shall be cut off from among his people.

Lev 20:13
If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.

Rom 1:25-28
They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and revered and worshiped the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity.
And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God handed them over to their undiscerning mind to do what is improper.

1 Cor 6:9-10
Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor sodomites nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Tim 1:9-11
We know that the law is good, provided that one uses it as law,
with the understanding that law is meant not for a righteous person but for the lawless and unruly, the godless and sinful, the unholy and profane, those who kill their fathers or mothers, murderers, the unchaste, practicing homosexuals, 5 kidnapers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is opposed to sound teaching,
according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.
 
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SandyK:
I am talking agape, not eros. And you yourself repeated 1 Tim 1:9-11. It is the “practice” of homosexuality that is condemned. 🙂 Peace.
 
Again, if the Catechism refers to scripture in support of its position on homosexuality, then it’s definately of utmost importance to know which of the scriptures it (the Catholic Church’s Catechism) is referring to. All of them! Does anyone know what all of them are?
 
Scripture has no place in law in this country. God is mentioned nowhere in the constitution, this was intentional by the founders, several of which were heretical deists, not even christian.

Caesar(Government) and God(s) must be kept separate, the Roman Empire commingled them and see how they ended up.
Amen to that! 👍
 
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SandyK:
SandyK, you do realize in the list of scriptures you provided that 1 Cor. 6:9 and 1 Tim 1:10, both contain the same Greek word “arsenokoite(s)” yet in one its translated “sodomite” in another “practicing homosexuals”. Something to consider…
 
From time to time, babies are born with both male and female genitalia. They are born both male and female!!! Did God create them? If he did, did he make a mistake? If he creates babies like this, does he condemn them like he condemns homosexuals in scripture? Or in both cases is it just nature that made both instead of a God? To the homosexuals on here, I wouldn’t worry about the bible’s scripture. It’s a man-made invention, just like all the “holy books” in the world. The horrible truth is how many poor homosexuals have commited suicide or have been murdered because of all the “anti-gay holy book scriptures” religions have furnished for us in the world!!! Christianity is far from the only homosexual hating religion!
 
From time to time, babies are born with both male and female genitalia. They are born both male and female!!! Did God create them? If he did, did he make a mistake? If he creates babies like this, does he condemn them like he condemns homosexuals in scripture? Or in both cases is it just nature that made both instead of a God? To the homosexuals on here, I wouldn’t worry about the bible’s scripture. It’s a man-made invention, just like all the “holy books” in the world. The horrible truth is how many poor homosexuals have commited suicide or have been murdered because of all the “anti-gay holy book scriptures” religions have furnished for us in the world!!! Christianity is far from the only homosexual hating religion!
Can you provide a reference that states how the Catholic Scriptures are “anti-gay”?

Methinks you are confused about the RCC position on homosexual orientation vs. the performance of homosexual acts.

So the scriptures made them commit suicide? How?
 
Scripture has no place in law in this country. God is mentioned nowhere in the constitution, this was intentional by the founders, several of which were heretical deists, not even christian.

Caesar(Government) and God(s) must be kept separate, the Roman Empire commingled them and see how they ended up.
What’s your point? This thread is not about whether sodomy should be legal. Its about whether or not it is contrary to God’s law found in the Scriptures.
 
Hopefully we all remember, that although scripture condemns homosexual “acts”, it doesn’t mean the person having homosexual tendencies is condemned. 🙂 PEACE.

1 Corinthians 13:1-2 “If I speak in human and angelic tongues but do not have love, I am a resounding gong or a clashing cymbal. And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing.”
I do remember this because I am gay but refuse to participate in homosexual acts.
 
Can you provide a reference that states how the Catholic Scriptures are “anti-gay”?

Methinks you are confused about the RCC position on homosexual orientation vs. the performance of homosexual acts.

So the scriptures made them commit suicide? How?
Methinks you’re sidestepping the whole issue of homosexuality and scripture. You make mention of the RCC’s position on homosexual acts. Well I’m assuming that such a position is based on the Catholic Church’s Catechism. In turn the Catechism states that it bases its position on Sacred Scripture. Now here’s the simple question: What are all of the scriptures the Catechism is referring to?
 
“*If {there is} a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them. *”

-Leviticus 20:13

There’s one.

Though could someone answer why we don’t execute homosexuals anymore? The Bible says we should. And the Bible is the infallible word of God. So… It’s basically God saying that we should execute homosexuals. And we should obey everything God commands, right? So why do we not execute homosexuals?
 
“*If {there is} a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them. *”

-Leviticus 20:13

There’s one.

Though could someone answer why we don’t execute homosexuals anymore? The Bible says we should. And the Bible is the infallible word of God. So… It’s basically God saying that we should execute homosexuals. And we should obey everything God commands, right? So why do we not execute homosexuals?
So should those that eat shellfish, or wear clothing woven of multiple fibers. Also, we should be able to sell our daughters into slavery for debts, and any other number of things. Farmers should all be executed for rotating crops contrary to the old testament as well

There are many things in the old testament that technically require death that we do all the time.
 
So should those that eat shellfish, or wear clothing woven of multiple fibers. Also, we should be able to sell our daughters into slavery for debts, and any other number of things. Farmers should all be executed for rotating crops contrary to the old testament as well

There are many things in the old testament that technically require death that we do all the time.
If you cannot see the difference between the moral imperatives of the Old Testament and the transitory/cermimonial requirement of of the old law, then you are really unprepared for this conversation.
 
If you cannot see the difference between the moral imperatives of the Old Testament and the transitory/cermimonial requirement of of the old law, then you are really unprepared for this conversation.
Then the moral lesson of the story of Sodom and Gomora was hospitality, not sexuality. Which is it?

And besides, shell fish. cross breeding livestock, planting a mixture of seeds in a field, and wearing clothing that is a blend of two textiles, the ritual cleanliness. This is all in the same section. How are they different? Where does it actually delineate the difference? I don’t see any distinction.

Nevermind the literal translation of 18:22 is more along the lines of “Ritual ****sex between two men in a Pagan temple is forbidden.” words are dropped in modern translations. Conducting oneself in a pagan ritual will of course invalidate and make you unclean, sex need not even be a factor.
 
I totally agree with you Pathia & Exalt. The laws of all religions change over time, and they have greatly with Judiasm and Christianity. The Catholic church’s laws change constantly. For instance, just in the past short 40 years, rules of the RCC that were SINS, and needed to be absolved by going to confession:

Touching the Eucharist with the fingers or any body part but the mouth.

Eating meat on any Friday of the year.

Women in church without anything on their heads.

Fasting since midnight before receiving morning communion. (I recall more than once seeing people faint at mass from skipping breakfast)

Stepping foot in any church but the Catholic church.

Among others. But, according to the RCC today, all these are no longer sins. (And, don’t anyone try and say the church never considered these sins, because they absolutely were called sins!) What’s sin today may not be sin tomorrow.

It does not seem wise to allow an organization like the Catholic church, who changes it’s so called sins at whim, to make rules such as who can engage in sexual relationships and who cannot. Or to follow any of it’s rules for that matter.
 
“*If {there is} a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them. *”

-Leviticus 20:13

There’s one.

Though could someone answer why we don’t execute homosexuals anymore? The Bible says we should. And the Bible is the infallible word of God. So… It’s basically God saying that we should execute homosexuals. And we should obey everything God commands, right? So why do we not execute homosexuals?
Even a cursory review of either testament of the bible reveals orders from God and his Son to kill those who rub them the wrong way! Yikes!!!
 
I totally agree with you Pathia & Exalt. The laws of all religions change over time, and they have greatly with Judiasm and Christianity. The Catholic church’s laws change constantly. For instance, just in the past short 40 years, rules of the RCC that were SINS, and needed to be absolved by going to confession:

Touching the Eucharist with the fingers or any body part but the mouth.

Eating meat on any Friday of the year.

Women in church without anything on their heads.

Fasting since midnight before receiving morning communion. (I recall more than once seeing people faint at mass from skipping breakfast)

Stepping foot in any church but the Catholic church.

Among others. But, according to the RCC today, all these are no longer sins. (And, don’t anyone try and say the church never considered these sins, because they absolutely were called sins!) What’s sin today may not be sin tomorrow.

It does not seem wise to allow an organization like the Catholic church, who changes it’s so called sins at whim, to make rules such as who can engage in sexual relationships and who cannot. Or to follow any of it’s rules for that matter.
I was just listening to a show last night that addressed this very topic. (what is and is not a sin, not necessarily homosexual activity)

The speaker clarified the arguement that the sin was not necessarily eating meat on Friday, but rather disobedience to the directive.

To put it another way, if my child wants to eat a cookie there is nothing specifically wrong with that action. However, if I should tell her “no cookies” and she eats one anyway, she has disobeyed me and will get into trouble. She might not realize it, but perhaps there was a very good reason for me to tell her not to eat cookies. Maybe there was something in it that she’s allergic to, or perhaps she needs to be on a diet. These aren’t necessarily things that she’ll understand, but she still needs to be obedient.

I don’t see the church every changing her views on homosexual activity. And whether people like it or not, it is our place as Catholics to trust our Holy Father to make these kinds of decisions, and to be obedient. We might not like it, but this is where faith comes in.

I don’t like the idea of no artificial birth control, but I trust that the law is there for a good reason, and I accept it.

There are moral laws, just as there are civil laws. If you go out on a Friday night and get drunk, then get in your car you’re going to be arrested, whether you hurt someone or not. Just the same, if we break the moral law, whether or not anyone else is hurt in the process, we will pay the penalty.

If I were to rely solely on myself, my intellect, my conscience to guide me I’d be a fool. It is far too easy to rationalize behavior, and with time, your conscience becomes dull. (how many mortal sins have I committed because I convinced myself I was in the right???) And while I consider myself a fairly intelligent person, it would be incredibly arrogant to think that I understand scripture better than the pope.

The Catholic Church is not on some kind of power trip. The goal is not to control us, but rather to act as a moral compass. This is not for the good of the church and it’s heirarchy, but for the good of all God’s people.
 
Then the moral lesson of the story of Sodom and Gomora was hospitality, not sexuality. Which is it?
So if they had been nice about it the sodomay part would have been ok? Give me a break.
And besides, shell fish. cross breeding livestock, planting a mixture of seeds in a field, and wearing clothing that is a blend of two textiles, the ritual cleanliness. This is all in the same section. How are they different? Where does it actually delineate the difference? I don’t see any distinction.
Two ways to see the distinction. First, While the New Testament clearly states that the old law was naild to the cross, it still condmens homosexuality. Second, homosexuality is a violation of natural as men do not have compatible parts, nor do women. How can anyone miss this?
Nevermind the literal translation of 18:22 is more along the lines of “Ritual ****sex between two men in a Pagan temple is forbidden.” words are dropped in modern translations. Conducting oneself in a pagan ritual will of course invalidate and make you unclean, sex need not even be a factor.
Prove it. And give evidence from more than just a pro-homosexaul website.
 
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