Homosexual Relationships

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blessedtoo said:
After reading all nine pages of this thread, I have concluded that you are basically having a big old temper tantrum. Here is how I got there:
According to you:
  • Scripture is wrong. You, and others like you (in the minority) have been enlightened and know the true meaning of “arsenokoites”, a word you’ve been tossing around here on the forums, along with links to websites which “prove” that over 2,000 years of Judeo-Christian understanding (not to mention Muslim) is erroneous.
  • Catholic men and women with ssa who witness to you about their chastity and committment to their faith are all “misguided”. They haven’t learned the truth about “scripture”, as you have. Additionally, when they try to reach out to you in friendship, they are rebuked as irritating and offensive. Their character is called into question when they generously attempt to share their experience with you.
  • Heterosexual Christians who try to reach out to you and share about their own understanding of marriage are also rebuked and their sincerity is called into question.
    You are young. When I was 28, I was also knee deep in the lifestyle and desperately trying to defend it by pointlessly attempting to punch holes in the truth.
You asked:

It’s an excellent question but you jumped to your conclusion without adequate reflection.

Perhaps the reason people feel they need to hide their homosexual orientation (let’s not use the euphemisms, ok?) is because they know, in the deepest part of themselves, that it is a disordered inclination which, if acted upon, will put their eternal souls at risk. Perhaps they know that the compulsion to engage in unnatural sexual relations is not acceptable in society. On some level, where the conscience still lives and breathes, they may know that family members would not want this life for their children and that they themselves instinctively wish it were not so. Rather then strengthen their resolve and bolster their innate desire to overcome the compulsion to act on their ssa, our culture ENCOURAGES them, teaches them, and applauds them for announcing they are gay. And some of them as young as their early teens, before anyone could possibly know such a thing for sure.

I pray that your time here on CAF will soften your heart and strengthen your desire to walk with Christ. I pray that you will put aside your anger long enough to actually listen and learn.
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I would like to take the opportunity to address every element of perspective you present within your post. Time does not allow me to do that now, but I will. What I find interesting is how much scripture is talked about in the abstract in regards to homosexuality. You say according to church teaching Sodom was destroyed because of homosexuality. Scripture says other wise. You concede church teaching allows for arsenokoites to be synonomous with sodomite. Scripture and history do not support that. I am not at all discouraged by the fact that the numbers are against me. The majority erroneously use the bible to condemn those with SSA. And the majority are content with that conclusion, because the majority aren’t affected by it. Well I’m not, and fortunately I have over 4000 years of divenly recorded biblical history to back it up.
If you want to discuss homosexuality and scripture, then let’s discuss homosexuality and scripture. If you want to discuss church teaching and scripture, then let’s do that. But at the very least, don’t sum up your arguments with broad notions, and general conclusions. It takes away from the essence of scripture, every last word of it.
 
East_and_West said:
And how can you say that I am using God as a weapon?
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I never said you used God as a weapon. Those who have and who do are those that have stumbled those in the “gay community” into believing that God dosen’t accept them, or thier want for companionship.
 
truagape said:
If you want to discuss homosexuality and scripture, then let’s discuss homosexuality and scripture. If you want to discuss church teaching and scripture, then let’s do that. But at the very least, don’t sum up your arguments with broad notions, and general conclusions. It takes away from the essence of scripture, every last word of it.
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I do not wish to discuss YOUR interpretation of scripture. I have seen all your many threads where you attempt to make your case and have read the links you have provided. You are not the first to advance the notion that the Christian Church, as well as several millennia of Jewish tradition and teaching, has somehow “misunderstood”, “mistranslated”, or “misunderstood” the meaning of the various scriptural references and prohibitions against homosexual behavior. You will not be the last. It is a desperate effort to justify sin by manipulating languages, context, history, and intent. The theories you have asserted have already been addressed on other threads. No need to take up more space.
 
blessedtoo said:
You are not the first to advance the notion that the Christian Church, as well as several millennia of Jewish tradition and teaching, has somehow “misunderstood”, “mistranslated”, or “misunderstood” the meaning of the various scriptural references and prohibitions against homosexual behavior. You will not be the last. It is a desperate effort to justify sin by manipulating languages, context, history, and intent. The theories you have asserted have already been addressed on other threads. No need to take up more space.
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Absolutely!!!
 
blessedtoo said:
When I was 28, I was also knee deep in the lifestyle and desperately trying to defend it by pointlessly attempting to punch holes in the truth.
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Lifestyle? What in the world are you talking about? The only “Lifestyle” I try to maintain is that of a Christain. In regards to sexual behaviors, all Christians are to flee from fornication, adultry, promiscuity, prostitution, pornography, orgies. All of these things are not to be associated with a Christian, gay or straight. If you were “knee deep in the lifestyle” as you say, your issue had nothing to do with homosexuality and everything to do with the lack of Christian values.
 
truagape said:
Lifestyle? What in the world are you talking about? The only “Lifestyle” I try to maintain is that of a Christain. In regards to sexual behaviors, all Christians are to flee from fornication, adultry, promiscuity, prostitution, pornography, orgies. All of these things are not to be associated with a Christian, gay or straight. If you were “knee deep in the lifestyle” as you say, your issue had nothing to do with homosexuality and everything to do with the lack of Christian values.
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Such judgementalism…:tsktsk:

I am confused. But then, I notice you seem to enjoy obfuscation. So I will just address your comments this way.

Christians who suffer with ssa but do not act on their inclinations are indeed walking with Christ and following the teachings of His Church. Kudos to all those who have shouldered their cross with courage and love.

Christians who suffer with ssa and look for ways to justify acting on that behavior are sadly misguided and need a refresher course in the teachings of Christ. Kudos to all those who struggle with this cross and yet seek the truth in earnest.
 
blessedtoo said:
I do not wish to discuss YOUR interpretation of scripture.
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You would actually have a point if everything I have ever discussed up to now in regards to homosexuality and scripture was merely an intrepretation. Mine at that. But the fact remains that all of my responses have been scripture and nothing else. No where did I provide an interpretaion. Nowhere! I’ve even gone as far as to reference the original language of scripture to highlight the truth.
This discussion of homosexuality isn’t the first and it definately won’t be the last. Because the biblical facts are undeniable and it’s only a matter of time before everyone else becomes aware of it!
 
blessedtoo said:
Such judgementalism…:tsktsk:

I am confused. But then, I notice you seem to enjoy obfuscation. So I will just address your comments this way.

Christians who suffer with ssa but do not act on their inclinations are indeed walking with Christ and following the teachings of His Church. Kudos to all those who have shouldered their cross with courage and love.

Christians who suffer with ssa and look for ways to justify acting on that behavior are sadly misguided and need a refresher course in the teachings of Christ. Kudos to all those who struggle with this cross and yet seek the truth in earnest.
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Was there anything in that post that wasn’t true? If so, name it.
 
truagape said:
You would actually have a point if everything I have ever discussed up to now in regards to homosexuality and scripture was merely an intrepretation. Mine at that. But the fact remains that all of my responses have been scripture and nothing else. No where did I provide an interpretaion. Nowhere! I’ve even gone as far as to reference the original language of scripture to highlight the truth.
This discussion of homosexuality isn’t the first and it definately won’t be the last. Because the biblical facts are undeniable and it’s only a matter of time before everyone else becomes aware of it!
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Wow, I guess every Church Father, St. Thomas Aquinas, Blessed Duns Scottus, St. Boneventure, St. Anslem, all the Popes, ever official Church document on the matter, and 2000 years of tradition are wrong about the homosexuality issue, but you, you have the right interpretation of scripture. WOW!!! I need to change religions and start following you!
 
East_and_West said:
Wow, I guess every Church Father, St. Thomas Aquinas, Blessed Duns Scottus, St. Boneventure, St. Anslem, all the Popes, ever official Church document on the matter, and 2000 years of tradition are wrong about the homosexuality issue, but you, you have the right interpretation of scripture. WOW!!! I need to change religions and start following you!
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Some of these are considered to be “Church Fathers.” Of those, which used “arsenokoites”, found in 1 Cor 6:9 to condemn homosexuality?
 
They all condemned homosexualit and viewed is contrary to scripture. This is is such universal knowledge that no quotes should be necessary.
 
truagape said:
Was their a time when blacks were ashamed to be black. Or was there ever a time when interracial couples were made to be ashamed by their families?
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truagape, please read the rest of my post. Thank you.
 
ElizabethAnne said:
Shame is a natural reaction to sin; it is a call to repentance. Everyone feels ashamed at some point in their lives. People who feel shame when they have not sinned or continue to feel ashamed after they have been forgiven by God, are no longer having a natural reaction. God does not want them to feel ashamed; the evil one does. And the devil is more than happy to make everyone ashamed when they have done nothing wrong or after they have been forgiven.
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In general, I agree you. When this is applied to those with SSA is where I part ways.
 
Why do you believe that homosexual relationships are ok?

BTW, don’t you love the way all of us who used to live the gay lifestyle are so against it? Must be hard for you to swallow.
 
I think it is impossible to pit Scripture against the Majesterium.Scripture’s ultimate authority is from the Church vouching for it’s authorship.There is no space or difference between Scripture and authentic Catholic teaching on any topic.It is the Church who gives Scripture it’s interpretation by various means.I can’t fathom how there can be a Scriptural reference that is at odds with Church teaching.
 
East_and_West said:
BTW, don’t you love the way all of us who used to live the gay lifestyle are so against it? Must be hard for you to swallow.
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No, it’s not hard to swallow. Here’s my problem: Many “Christians” and their institutions have dealt gay people a heavy blow and placed a huge stumbling block in front of them. As a result of being biblically beaten, many have sought comfort in denying God and his Word. And I hate that. So it’s no suprise to find those who haven’t had the opportunity to know Christ, to behave in a manner that’s unChristian. There’s no such thing as a “gay lifestyle”. But there are those who are in Christ and those who aren’t. Sexuality has nothing to do with that. Everyone needs to be told the truth concerning Scripture and homosexuality, gay or straight.
 
sawman said:
I think it is impossible to pit Scripture against the Majesterium.Scripture’s ultimate authority is from the Church vouching for it’s authorship.
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Who vouched for Scripture’s authorship at the time they were originally recorded? Prior to Jesus, who vouched for the Old Testament?
 
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